hondo in seattle

I see your point. What I've been saying is that sport is entertainment. It's not politics. Political reporting will always be brutal. Sports reporting doesn't need to be. But I haven't been saying Dunne shouldn't have written an article about McD or sat on the fruits of his research. But I do think he could have contextualized them much better by, for one, providing counterbalancing views. Ed Oliver said McD is a "great man" (and called the article "bullsh*t"). Micah Hyde professed his support for McD (and rightly pointed out the article does no good). Mitch Morse said he'd do anything for McD. Josh reportedly said he loved McD both as a coach and a human. And so on. Why is there is so little of that in the article? Attacking a man's character and reputation is serious business. If Dunne wants to publish the negative comments, fine. But he should have researched the positive as thoroughly as he researched the negative.

You're right but I think maybe we can probably read between the lines. Allen's public defense of McD as a coach after the game wasn't particularly strong though he said McD is one of the best humans walking the planet. Mitch Morse's defense was big - something like, "I'd do anything for that man." So was Ed Oliver's and his comment that McD was a "great man" and the article was "bullsh*t." Listening to some of the players call out "We got your back, coach!" when McD was delivering his postgame speech was pretty emotional. Though I don't know how many were yelling it out or cheering in agreement. This doesn't mean any of Dunne's facts are wrong. Nor does it invalidate all of his opinions. And there might be players and coaches who silently agree with him. But I'm pretty sure that Micah Hyde, for example, isn't one of them after hearing him speak. It's like the elephant story I told earlier in this thread. Dunne is the blind man holding onto the trunk and describing the elephant as long like a snake. Dunne has a bit of truth but I don't think he has the whole picture. And I think confirmation bias is at work. I'm guessing Dunne has a negative view of McD and sought out the people who agreed with him more aggressively than he sought out the people who didn't. It would be interesting for a more unbiased journalist to interview a bunch of players and coaches and tell the whole story. I'm sure it wouldn't all be roses. But I personally doubt if it would stink the way Dunne's story does.

This is an interesting point and I respect it. I don't believe Dunne made anything up. And I believe that he believes what he wrote. But I also believe that there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. I think it's fair game to question personnel and tactical decisions. But going after character? I don't like it. For me, there's a difference between sports and political journalism. I do expect political journalists to write fair, balanced, and truthful exposés. The nation depends on Bernsteins and Woodwards for democracy to properly function. Football, on the other hand, is a pastime that will operate just fine without the Tyler Dunne's of the world playing attack dog. As Micah Hyde said, "I don’t think there’s any good coming out of that." In any case, while Dunne was truthful in his subjective way, he was not fair and balanced. Listening to Micah Hyde, Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, Mitch Morse, and others over the past couple days, it's clear they don't agree with Dunne's characterization. And they're in a position to know the man much better than Dunne. Dunne should have made a much more strenuous effort to talk to more guys like these who have good things to say about McD to make his article more objective. One important observation about Bernstein and Woodward is that they were right. Dunne gets some facts right, but I question his opinions and conclusions.

I'm confused. I thought McD lost the locker room. What's going on here?

There have been many times refs have made questionable calls against the Bills. People like to say it evens out in the end. Generally, I agree. But this year it seems like our own mistakes (dropped passes, actual penalties), bad bounces, and referee mistakes have come disproportionally at key moments in the game. So I'm taking this win with a smile.

Look, I understand Dunne is a journalist and journalists aren't supposed to write puff pieces. But I agree with Micah Hyde when he calls it a low blow: "But to me, I think it's a low blow to question Sean's character. And I don't think there's any good coming out of that. I think a lot of us are, would, not to knock on you guys, but the media reporting the story, but I think in the locker room and stuff, we're all here to lift each other up. So, for guys to do that, it's kind of messed up in my eyes. You know me, I'm pro-Sean McDermott. I trust in everything that he's done around here, and what he's going to continue to do, and I'm going to back him any day of the week, twice on Sunday." Many years ago, another manager in my company sent a voicemail to my boss questioning the integrity of some of the results my team was producing. But she accidentally sent the voicemail to a group of about 50 company managers. When my team found out, they were deeply hurt that their good work was sullied by dishonest speculation. Years later, I was asked to contribute a monthly opinion piece on any topic of my choice to a company newsletter. One of my contributions was a front-page article with my old adversary's smiling photo praising her heartily as a high-achieving brand ambassador (which she was). Months later, she spotted me at a company event and interrupted my conversation to give me a long, emotional hug. The axe was buried. Confucius said, "To be wronged is nothing, unless you continue to remember it." Stoic philosophers likewise teach us to ignore the wrongs people have done to us. Most spiritual traditions promote kindness and forgiveness. Dunne could have listened to his higher angels and taken a higher road. He could have, for example, chosen not to write a hit piece. Or if he felt compelled to write a piece on McD, he could have found more positive quotes and comments to include in the article to make it more balanced. When a man publicly goes after another man's character, job, and reputation in a one-sided way like this - to Micah and me, it's wrong.

Fragile? Lazy? Clearly, you don't know me. I have numerous flaws but nobody who knows me or served with me would call me either of those two things. Again, I don't know why you chose to disagree with personal attacks.

This from a BN article by Katherine Fitzgerald and Jay Skurski: "In interviews across the locker room, Bills players from veterans to rookies voiced their support of McDermott on Friday." The pro-McDermott folks won't be surprised. The anti-McDermott folks will find reasons to be skeptical. ('Well, of course, they're going to publicly support their coach. They don't want to end up in his doghouse'). I'm not sure why Dunne is a better source than Fitzgerald and Skurski - or Micah Hyde for that matter. I remember when many on this website were prematurely condemning Matt Araiza. In the face of conflicting information, I tend to reserve judgment.

And luck: the way the ball bounces, tips are deflected.... bad ref decisions on critical plays, etc. But I'm sure a big win would be gratifying for McD and those who support him.

I don't understand the need for an ad hominem attack. You don't know me, my character, what I've done... In any case, I've admitted in this thread that (1) I likewise don't know Dunne personally or his character, (2) I don't believe Dunne presented anything as factual that wasn't factual, (3) I do believe Dunne believed every word that he wrote, and (4) I don't actually know what McD is like on the practice field, in the locker room or the training facility. But here's what bugs me: Dunne's judged the man. For example, he writes, "Coaches see a boss who preaches accountability while taking none himself." It's one thing to criticize a coach's tactical decisions, another thing altogether to attack the person. And Dunne doesn't have the right to speak for the coaches - I am certain that there are Bills coaches who would disagree with Dunne's characterization. I'm not sure if McD is a good enough coach to get us a Lombardi. Maybe he is "tight" and has some of the other shortcomings Dunne described. But when Dunne stoops to character assassination, which I've seen in quotes from the article, I'm not a fan. Neither is Micah Hyde. And, btw, Sherfield says Hyde was speaking for the team when he rebutted Dunne. But I'm not sticking up for McD as much as I'm sticking up for human respect and kindness. I don't believe in attacking people. It's a crappy thing to do. And I don't need to read 20,000 words to know that. If a criminal robs 20,000 people, I don't need to witness every theft to know I'm not a fan.

Thanks for the summary. I didn't want to pony up $8 for what sounded like a hatchet job. And now that you've provided the Reader's Digest version, I feel like I've learned enough. McD has detractors. That's not new. But it reminds me of the Charles Mackay quote: “You have no enemies, you say? Alas, my friend, the boast is poor. He who has mingled in the fray of duty that the brave endure, must have made foes. If you have none, small is the work that you have done. You’ve hit no traitor on the hip. You’ve dashed no cup from perjured lip. You’ve never turned the wrong to right. You’ve been a coward in the fight.” I don't know what the truth is at OBD and don't pretend to. But I don't think Dunne truly knows either because he seems to prefer to talk with the malcontents instead of seeking out a more balanced view.

It's a shame we spent so much on Von for so little in return. Hindsight being 20/20, it would have been more cost-effective to sign Floyd and a supporting cast. And then use the savings to create a better OL/Bodyguard for Josh.

There's an old story that goes something like this... A king brought a bunch of blind men together and had his servants guide them to an elephant. The king asked them to describe what they found. One touched a leg and groped it for a moment. "It's like a tree trunk." Another blind man grabbed hold of the trunk. "No, you idiot. It's like a thick snake." A third blind man felt the ear. "What are you two liars talking about? It seems to be some kind of fan." The fourth blind man fondled the tail. "You are all morons. It's a rope." The fifth blind man touched the tusk and said it was hard and smooth like a spear. Soon the blind men were wildly fighting over their disagreement. Dunne may have some piece of the truth. But it's not the whole truth and there are other perspectives. And we're all blind men blindly throwing punches at each other.

So Dunne's story is absolute truth and Hyde's comments to the contrary are garbage because he has a motivation to be complimentary? And Dunne is devoid of personal motivations?

I wonder why Dunne didn't interview Micah Hyde.

Joe's is a national treasure. And affordably priced. I've been to maybe a dozen BBQ places in KC. My favorite burnt ends were at Q39. Amazing.

Josh just said that there's a "We've got a lot of trust in this locker room and confidence in each other... We're going to have to believe it, to do it. And this is a team that believes it..." [We have a] "very, very good feel in this locker room right now." Seems different than Dunne's characterization. Someone's wrong. www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/josh-allen-makes-confident-buffalo-bills-promise-with-nfl-postseason-hopes-dwindling/ar-AA1la3GM?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=6230e01c12284564b5ff372d3b2fb051&ei=43

In India, they say when a pickpocket walks down the street, all he sees are pockets. In science, it's called confirmation bias. We tend to see what we're looking for. I never suggested Dunne is lying. I think, maybe, Dunne doesn't like McD and so he looks for disgruntled ex-Bills employees to agree with him. And that's what he prints. I don't think he made up a single quote. I don't think he said a single thing he doesn't believe to be true. I just think that, maybe, he's wrong. I think a pro-McD journalist could write a very different article with lots of true quotes about how great McD is. If I was Terry, I wouldn't read this board or Tyler's article. I'd talk to Beane, the subordinate coaches, and the players. I'd try to get a good 360-degree of McD from the people who matter.

Well, this is part of the problem... on both sides of the argument. When facts support our point of view, we're all over them. When facts disagree with our view, we find ways to discount them.

Sadly, my view of journalism is that it's one of the lower-integrity professions in America. I've read too many bad, one-sided articles. I know there are also good journalists, and I loved the human-interest stories Dunne did when in Buffalo. But, other than that, I have no knowledge or opinion of the man. I don't know if he's capable of writing a hit job or not. I don't know if he has any personal animus toward McD and is unbiased. I'm just not going to accept anything a journalist says as gospel truth. You seem to know Dunne better than I do and hold him to be credible. I respect that. I'm just not in the same place.

You didn't like McD before Dunne's article. You don't like him now. So I guess BBG is right: it didn't move the needle.

I see the world of journalism a bit differently. In politics as well as sports, journalists write one-sided articles either for clicks or to support their opinion. They cherry-pick facts all the time. You don't have to be a journalist to see that. A NYT columnist visited my armored cavalry squadron when I was in Saudi just before the Gulf War. We were instructed to give him unlimited access to the troops. So he gathered a circle of soldiers and started talking to them about President Bush fishing in Kennebunkport instead of in DC working the phones to end this crisis. According to the soldiers involved, he seemed to be trying to rile them up. He then asked if any of the soldiers were resentful. The soldiers who were there told me they didn't really give a crap what the CINC was doing. Mostly they cared about the mission in front of us, not high-level political maneuvers. Finally, seemingly frustrated, the reporter asked the most discontented soldier if he could quote him something like, "Bush needs to get off his ass, out of Kennebunkport, and do something." (I don't recall the exact words). The soldier said, no, he had, in fact, said no such thing. Then he asked the others if he could ascribe that quote to one of them. A young private said he could attribute the quote to him. That quote - that none of my soldiers ever actually spoke - made the NYT and the national news. He got tons of fan mail and care packages for that quote. I got an ass-chewing. I'm guessing the article about frustrated, disillusioned soldiers was written on the plane trip to the desert and the reporter just needed someone to assign the quotes to. The actual facts & opinions on the ground didn't matter. So, from personal experience, I don't trust journalists from the Pulitzer-winning New York Times let alone journalists from Go Long.

I have a friend who roots for a bunch of different sports teams. His disappointment at Bills losses is counterbalanced by wins delivered by some of his other favorite clubs. Me, I just follow the Bills. So, when I have a bad week, personally and/or professionally, and then the Bills lose, there is no consolation. I just try to be Stoic about it and accept reality as it's handed to me.

If I was a reporter who wanted to write a negative article about a HC, I'd do the following: * Interview every coach and player who I suspect has a negative opinion of the coach. * Include all the worst comments in the article. * Include a couple of positive observations in the piece just to make it seem like I'm fair and balanced. * Imply that the negative sentiments represent a consensus even when they don't. I'm not sure Dunne did all this. But I don't know that he didn't. I'm hoping that Terry spends enough time with the team to have a true understanding of what the coaches and players think of McD and how he actually operates. If Dunne is, in fact, giving a fair portrait of the man, he deserves to be fired. I'm just not confident that he is.

Let me be the naysayer who gets smacked around for a divergent view... I like Dunne. And he says he talked to 25 people for this article. That's an impressive number. But I wonder who he talked to and which ones he quoted? Coaches who were fired? Players who were cut? It would be nice if he sought out a random sample. Both McD detractors and fans. But he seemingly didn't do that. I'm not arguing McD is perfect and doesn't do any wrong. I just don't think Dunne's article is the final word. We've heard a lot of players talk about how much they love the culture of the Bills. Things aren't all bad.