hondo in seattle

I expect Brady to not get in a rut with play calling, and not call the same favorite plays over and over out of the same formations, basically letting the defense know what you're doing. And not call the same 2 or 3 runs throughout a game. And mix the runs in with the passes in an intelligent way instead of neglecting the run for a while and then running a bunch of times. And asking Allen to get the ball out quickly and not overstressing the OL. Brady can't change the playbook but he can do a lot.

That's what sucks about coordinators. If you hire a good one, someone steals him away to be their HC. If you hire a bad one, you suck for a while. If you hire a mediocre one, forget about your Lombardi dreams. The key is to hire good one after good one after good one to have sustained success. That's hard to do.

McD deserves ALL the blame for the Bills being a disappointing 5-5. He's the head coach. But I don't get the scapegoat thing. Certainly, Dorsey doesn't deserve all the blame for the offense's struggles. Outside of Josh and Diggs, Beane hasn't loaded the offense with a ton of talent. The OL, in particular, has been far below Super Bowl standards since Beane came on board. And some of the mistakes made by the players (that Beane acquired) are hard to pin on Dorsey. But, be that as it may, Dorsey needed to go. I've watched X-and-O breakdowns by a variety of analysts (Kurt Warner, Dan Orolovsky, Eric Turner, JT O'Sullivan, etc.) and walked away unimpressed. Folks far smarter than me clearly explain problems with our scheme and play-calling that Dorsey should be fixing. Rodgers says Allen needs to throw on schedule instead of ad-libbing all the time. Dorsey should be fixing that too. Under Daboll, Allen improved. Under Dorsey, Allen regressed. Here's a fun fact. In the 13 games in 2016 when ALynn was the OC and Tyrod the QB, we averaged more points per game (27) than we're doing in 2023 with Dorsey as the OC and Josh as the QB. That's shameful. At this point in his career, Dorsey is not a Super Bowl-quality OC. And he's not the right guy to coach Allen up to his maximum greatness. Maybe, because of Josh's unique set of skills and shortcomings, we need a special QB-whisperer-type OC who knows how to keep Josh's head straight and make maximal use of his strengths while covering up his flaws. We certainly need someone who will be tactically better at the Xs and Os. Dorsey had to go.

I have no freaking idea. And neither does any other casual fan. There's some drama around Diggs. And Josh certainly didn't seem happy after Dorsey's firings. But we hear all the time about players loving it here and free agents hearing good things about the organization from their friends on the Bills. Cancer in the clubhouse? I don't know about that. It is certain that, at 5-5, McD is underperforming this year. But without a lot more information, I wouldn't blame the culture.

You're right of course. But "gifted" is a relative term. The first time I saw Fitz play with Cinci, I thought: this guy won't be in the league very long. It wasn't one of my better calls. When he played for the Bills and was miked up, I was amazed how he grunted just to throw the ball 50 yards. Sometimes on his long balls to Stevie, I felt like he was just throwing it up for grabs and hoping Stevie would make the play which he often did. Fitz didn't have anywhere near the talent of some of his contemporaries: Brady, Brees, Rodgers, etc. And he didn't have Josh's natural talent. But he lasted 17 years and had some good seasons. So, yeah, he was better than 99% of the QBs in America.

Orlovsky said that we have strong tendencies to run certain plays out of certain formations. No one in the NFL is dumb enough to have a playbook with a formation that is only used for one play. But, apparently, Dorsey got into some bad habits and would often only call one or two of the plays that could be run from a certain formation. That meant defenses often had a good idea of what we were doing. We've heard things, too, from defenders that Davis tends the run the same routes over and over. And that if Josh has two guys in the same zone when facing zone defense, he'll throw to the deeper guy almost regardless of coverage. And that the Bills only run a few different run plays. Etc. As Orlovsky says, the Bills offense has been "wildly predictable."

Doesn't Terry live in Florida now? Game Day might be the only day in the week when he is with the team. So it would make sense for them to meet right after a game so Terry can promptly fly back home.

I don't think this idea is as bizarro as it seems at first. Yeah, he probably doesn't want the job. But you don't know until you ask. As the OP says, Fitz is smart. He's played for so many different teams in his career against so many different teams that he's familiar with a bunch of different offensive schemes and techniques and a bunch of different defensive philosophies. And he has a good relationship with Josh. Fitz made a good career despite not being gifted with tremendous natural talent. Josh could learn from him.

It's interesting to me that Sean Payton is supposed to be a passing game genius, yet his receivers have poor separation. Yeah, I get the quality of the receivers matters. But you'd think a guy like Payton could scheme guys open. He's even worse at scheming guys open than Dorsey who is also poor at it.

Burrow's comments were short, somewhat generic, but positive. I live in hope.

I don't consider myself an X-and-O guy either. But I've watched some of the same videos as well as some stuff from Kurt Warner and Dan Orlovsky. And while some of these guys sometimes praised a particular call or play-design, I was left with the feeling we had a subpar OC. And, yeah, I started guessing Bills plays too. We've heard these things from opposing players, as well. They knew what we were doing. Orlovsky says we're wildly predictable and the easiest offense in the NFL to prepare for. With Super Bowl aspirations, we need someone better than what Dorsey is right now. I agree with all of this. The comment about Dorsey and Allen being close worries me. Watching Allen on the sidelines - he looked down. I watched McD's post-Dorsey interview. He looked morose, too. They both look to be at emotional lows. Dorsey's firing might not improve Allen's headspace. And I wonder who he'll blame. Himself? McDermott? The termination might eff with him mentally.

I'm not absolving Brady from all responsibility, but the job of an OC is far more than calling plays. And even when he calls plays, he might have marching orders about the general trend wanted by the HC for the play-calling. If you're an OC working for an offensive-minded HC is very different than being an OC for a defensive-minded HC. We don't know how tightly supervised Brady was in Carolina or how much he was (or wasn't) executing Rhule's scheme and vision. So I'm not going to damn the guy for his performance there. Orlovsky makes some very good observations about Dorsey's scheme and play-calling shortcomings. But it's undeniable that Josh sometimes makes poor decisions. Still, if we want to pile on Dorsey, we can blame him for that too. His title is coordinator but he's a coach. Isn't he supposed to coach out the bad habits and coach up the good stuff?

We've heard other analysts criticize the Bills offensive scheme and play calling. But Orlovsky might be the harshest critic: “the Bills are the easiest team in the NFL right now to prepare for… the play-calling has been wildly predictable… the Bills offense is schematically broken.” Well, it's too late in the season to fix the entire scheme. But Brady can fix the play-calling. And he can tweak the scheme. Will he? It's hard to know. Brady was Matt Rhule's OC at Carolina. We don't know how much of the offense was his and how much was Rhule's. In any case, Brady was pretty young when he had the gig. He may have learned and grown a lot since then. I remember when ALynn took over GoRo's offense here in Buffalo after Roman was fired (after the 2nd game in 2016). During his 13 games as OC with Tyrod as QB, Lynn averaged 27 points per game. Considering the circumstances, including the QB, that's impressive. For comparison, Dorsey is only averaging 26.2 points per game with Josh Allen. Midseason OC changes do sometimes work. I'm hoping!

I don't get some of the impassioned defenses of Dorsey. When I watch football, I'm just a fan. I watch the guy with the ball. I don't have the expertise or the inclination to break down the play in any detail. But after the game, I do like to watch the x-and-o breakdowns by guys like Eric Turner, Kurt Warner, J.T. O'Sullivan, and Dan Orlovsky. And the more video I watched, the more I lost faith in Dorsey. While all of these gurus have pointed out problems in scheme and play-calling, Orlovsky may have been the most vocal critic, insisting that “the Bills are the easiest team in the NFL right now to prepare for… the play calling has been wildly predictable… the Bills offense is schematically broken.” He'll happily support these opinions with examples and video. It's true that Dorsey didn't fumble the ball, throw the pic, fail to block the rushing DE, or any of that. Coaches need to coach and players need to execute. But I don't know how anyone can be a supporter of Dorsey after they've studied the tape. I'm not even saying Dorsey is horrible and will never coach again. It's just clear that he was not the guy to optimize the production of Josh and this offense. Believe whatever you want to believe about McD, but Dorsey had to go.

With Matt Rhule running the offense as the HC.

Thanks for the correction... Fingers moving faster than the brain. Regardless, I still don't expect Brady to be a puppet. But unless someone here intimately knows Brady's character and personality, we're all just guessing.

I don't think this is talked about enough. People wanted Dorsey fired. They want McD fired. But what about Beane? He's not blameless. When you spend a quarter of a billion dollars on a QB, you'd think getting him a bodyguard would be a priority. The Bills' woeful story this year has more than one author.

Typically firing an OC in the middle of the season doesn't result in a huge improvement. But as Dan Orlovsky adamantly observed, "The Bills offense is schematically broken." We've heard other ex-NFL players and coaches imply, or outright say, similar things. That's not an Allen thing. That's not a McD thing. That's a Dorsey thing. Maybe Brady can help fix it. As a fan, I can only hope.

I think this is true. But I do think both contributed. If McD thought that Dorsey was doing everything right and getting the most out of the flawed offensive roster, Dorsey probably would not have been fired. I'm guessing that McD sees it differently. Dorsey was doing something wrong behind the scenes. Maybe bad relationships with players. Maybe not coaching Josh hard enough. Maybe not taking input from Shula and Brady. Maybe not following McD's guidance... I do think the decline of the offense's performance was the main reason. But I think McD saw/heard other things that made him lose faith in Dorsey.

Just because they worked together in Carolina doesn't make Brady a puppet. I've worked for a lot of people and didn't become a puppet to any. I bet the same is true of you.

Maybe Shula is part of the reason Dorsey was fired. Maybe Dorsey wasn't taking input from Shula (or Brady). So maybe McD fired Dorsey for more than what we were all seeing on the field. Maybe Shula, Brady, and others mentioned their frustrations with Dorsey to McD. We don't know.

That's a fair argument. But I'd like to see fewer turnovers and mental mistakes. He has the potential to be as good as Mahomes. Maybe better. But he's currently playing at a lower level.

He was an English explorer who famously led an expedition to Antarctica in 1914. The weather turned cold earlier than expected and their ship was crushed by pack ice. They had no way to return home or call for help and lived for months on ice floes and, later, a frozen little island with no provisions. Thanks to Shackleton's leadership, the crew survived for roughly a year before Shackleton managed to get them rescued. The details of the story are remarkable. Not only did Shackleton keep his crew alive in near-impossible conditions, he also kept their spirits high and maintained a harmonious atmosphere despite the fact that any reasonable person in that situation would have thought death was their probable fate.

I very much agree with the bolded.

Or it means he doesn't hire the right coordinators. Which I suppose is just a different kind of dysfunction. Yeah, it's concerning that we can't get and keep the right coordinators.