NoSaint
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I think he would. His choices are either stay in Baltimore for at least one season and make a couple million dollars or sign a long term deal with Buffalo for a boatload of guaranteed money.
Or the proverbial third choice, just sign a longterm deal with baltimore.
or the fourth choice, sign a long term deal somewhere else.
Its not like we just put out the money and he is ours.
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At the end of the day, I wonder why this doesn't happen more. If your giving that coin to someone, why not someone proven. Contracts likely come close either way...
He has to want to be here though for it to work!
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given the premise set forth in the OP with regards to KNOWING these players will be successful...
I take the QB, without question.
Kind of by definition a successful qb means a successful team..... is there a hall of fame qb with a losing record, no sb rings, but a ton of probowls?
I think that fact makes it hard to really put those positions head to head.
if you are saying the qb will have a hof resume i take that because of what it means for the team. if you are saying hof talent, i trade back and build the team with 1 of three elite talents, and 2 extra picks. If you are locked at 1 i think you go qb, but i think a DE or LT or QB along with 2 extra high end players will do more for building a franchise from scratch then any one of those players alone.
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I mean gailey has shown he doesn't mind his qb being in a shotgun. Also, is it more then one injury in his history or did he rush back for his teammates and get knocked out because it was too early?
I'm not a huge fan, just trying to play it honest in evaluations.
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If you can get a hof qb , you grab him and run
The thing with a hof qb -- it assumes a certain quality of player around them. If you put Payton manning in Archie mannings old saints teams, would he be the qb we see today? If you put an Orlando pace on a bad line, he can still dominate the man across from him. A QB having a hall of fame career speaks not just to his ability but those around him. By taking a promised hall of fame qb, you are assuming he will have multiple probowls and in most cases a superbowl MVP (ie superbowl ring). If that's true, clearly you take him. If we are only talking about a player with the ability to be a hof qb, that could be different. Sheer ability doesn't equate to success at qb like it does in other positions.
If you can get a hof lineman (either side) and have 5 of the top 67 picks it would be tempting to go that route to build a team from scratch. Plus, who's to say a team like the lions, with a big investment in a young qb isn't behind you. Maybe you get your QB aaand the picks ala the bucs leapfrogging the lions to get there dt and the rams still getting Bradford.
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noway they do it for less then a 2 , sometimes these things cost two this year, and a one next
eli manning deal for instance
That was the #1 to the #4 for an additional second and the following years first. 9 up to 2 would be even more probably
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well i voted trade back to 3 -- the difference in money and an extra second + third adds up to filling a lot of holes. Obviously a qb is the most valuable single pick, but say you pick up that HOF LT at 3, a potential all pro Center with the extra second, and a perennial starter at LG in the 3rd..... Youve turned that one pick into more then half of a high quality line.
honestly, similar situations can be built for any of the picks available at 3
Not to mention you still have your own pick to start off the second and third rounds.... if you KNOW that you can get a cornerstone player at all three, if you believe in the depth of the draft, i say take the extra players if you are lacking talent.
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CORRECT! excellent post
to sum it up: Signing bonuses are amortized whether the team wants to or not. The cash-to-cap philosophy is simply an internal method of accounting.
Everyone should re-read this post.
I bring back my original question -- are the bills far more reliant on roster bonuses then other teams. A roster bonus for being on the team a week after the contract is signed is not amortized.
Also, over the course of several years accounting tricks will not cover up a lack of spending. If you read the article, you see the mention of a short transition and then more money available. It would work out dollar to dollar the same through a cycle of contracts for the team.
It's just a smarter way to manage cash flow. If I spend 5 million for 4 straight years, or 20 million this year with none for the next three, or 20 this year but amortize it -- it all shows up as 20 million in spending, and takes up 20 million in cap space. Basically the bills have decided not to hand out 120% of the cap space one year and then be left with 80% the following year( lto put it in very oversimplified terms).
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Go look at film of the ol Miss, Ok State game. See why both these QB's suck.
if they were polished pro-ready qbs then the talk wouldn't be 3rd to 4th round picks. Just like you can't disregard those games in rating them, they can't be the only games you look at. If they were 6-5 240lbs, great arm strength perfect accuracy on all levels, and impeccable leadership they wouldn't make it to 9 yet alone pick 129. In a discussion like this you have to find what mistakes are correctable and if any of those weaknesses are impossible to overcome with teaching, time, or a well designed system.
Does watching that game prove both these guys should be escorted to the nearest grocery store and taught how to stock shelves? Perhaps you could elaborate if you have such a strong opinion on each. What are their non-redeemable qualities?
I've seen them play, and I'm not sold on either but I haven't seen all that much and your comment didn't add much to the conversation....
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Yeah lack of time in the weight room... again did this apperant lack of weight room strength keep him from being a stud ON THE FIELD?
Jesus folks....
I don't think anyone is saying he will be steamrolled all of a sudden. The concerns are that in the NFL everyone has natural strength and talent. You typically have to be better then the other guy 6 days a week to be better on Sunday as well. Also, I look at that and wonder even if he is gifted enough to play well without the dedication to the craft, how much more could he be with dedication. Ultimately bench press, wondelic and most combine related tests are not hardline pass or fail tests. They indicate strengths and weaknesses, and raise or help erase concerns. A great player that doesn't prepare will likely not be great for long, a poor score does not mean a player was unprepared though... Truly an art, not a science at this point.
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I don't think the Bills do that. I think they're amortizing the signing bonus contract per the NFL rules, while voluntarily limiting further signings when they've reached their salary + signing bonus cap level (cash to the cap) for a given year, simply as an internal budgeting process.
is there a reason you believe that? Or does it just support your suspicion? Mathematically it would not work out long term in "saving money." you can play tricks like that to create bubbles for a year or two but it all evens out over time. If they did what you are saying they would never reach the salary floor - there is a minimum. Truly there is no economical advantage to what you are saying past very short periods, which you would have to make up for later. You can cook your books with creative accounting but it will always catch up in real numbers eventually.
Ps correct me if this is wrong -- signing bonuses amoritize, a roster bonus does not. Buffalo uses far more roster bunuses then an average team. The advantage, no cap acceleration when you cut a player. The disadvantage, if a player gets a signing bonus and gets arrested (ala vick), you can pursue that money because it is a bonus to the execution of the deal, with a roster bonus the day it is paid it is fully earned and can not be taken back for any reason. Buffalo generally has early high priced bonuses that account for not giving big signing bonuses.
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9 + MCKELVIN = ??
9 + WHITNER = ??
9 + LYNCH =??
DO ANY ADD UP TO 2 OVERALL?... MAYBE ,,YES OR NO ?
DETROIT WANTS OUT OF 2
9 + 41 + next years first + any one of those players is more realistic honestly.
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So which is Cody? First he gained weight all the way up to 410 as a high school kid. Fat one. He lost weight from 410 to 354 in his senior year. Muscular one. Then he gained weight in one month from 354 to 370 at the Senior Bowl. Fat one. Then he lost weight from 370 to 356 at the Combine. Muscular one.
That's a pattern, and it is called weight fluctuations, and it is not a good sign at all.
His weight going up one documented time can hardly be called fluctuations.
Also, when losing 70 lbs, do you often expect straight line losses or do you expect general trends?
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From what I've heard, he has absolutely no work ethic. I don't care how he plays. If this guy doesn't work to get better, than he has no place on my team.
every coach hes ever been around has said the opposite -- is there something to the contrary you can point to? i know people say oh, fat, he must be lazy. from his highpoint of 420 to his weighin yesterday at 354 he has lost nearly 70 lbs --- cant be totally unmotivated or without work ethic.
question marks? yes.
absolutely no work ethic? clearly not true.
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No, he's saying that NFL players, specifically linemen, rarely ever play at their listed weight, and are usually scores of pounds heavier.
Yea, that's very much true.... but in reply to my statement that he went from 410 to 354, saying more realistically 375 was a head scratcher....
The reply after yours about boxers also implies there's some sort of trickery (ie diuretics, not eating for a little bit). 20 lbs is not a trick, 56 lbs was not a trick either.
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How many NFL players are listed at their 'real' weight? I'm guessing 375 is a more realistic number. There's a lot of tricks to 'making weight'.
I might be misunderstanding but are you implying that the senior bowl or combine weighins were wrong?
Or were you saying he was never 410?
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He had a major incentive to keep his weight down for the post season games and he couldn't do it.
I agree. He could have taken diuretics the night before to help lose weight. Also, as mentioned he is motivated for the payday. Will he be motivated for the career?
Great point. I agree that his conditioning is very poor. IMO, a first round DT needs to be a three down player.
One of the questions I have about his conditioning is did saban use that last cutoff to keep him working, not becuase he couldn't play more snaps? If the dropoff in pass rush to the backup is slim to none, and you can use that as incentive to keep Cody working.... Maybe he is better conditioned then his snap count would reflect. Just to say this was his snap count, he was a fat lazy slob is a jump also.
I'm not saying I'm right your wrong on the conditioning, just offering an alternative.
As for the diuretics -- isn't the combine where the first test happens? Also, how much weight are you proposing he lost overnight?
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Really the only thing that baffles my mind is that people really expect a 410lbs'er to get to 340 lbs within 2 years withou ANY weight fluctuations along the way. I really can't begin to imagine that as a linear process no matter how much motivation you have.
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I can only surmise that the post season games weren't as important to him as the Combine. At least in terms of his weight. He probably figured his play on the field would do the talking in the games while the Combine is all about numbers.
my guess is they were important but it was a kid learning how to maintain weight still. No practice everyday, probably went home for awhile. Cut a couple corners and realized he couldn't do that. Got strict with himself and lost the weight back.
A kid learning how to lose weight is going to have hiccups. He was in a process of learning how to do that -- total 2 year weightloss 410 -- 354 for a total of 56 lbs. Have we every seen a kid make a change like that? I can't recall any, but it does t mean it hasn't happened...
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I don't see it. His ideal weight would be somewhere around 340 or so, according to both him and Saban, his college coach. This just means he can drop weight for a week or two. It doesn't mean he can ever get to his best weight, and it doesn't show that he is likely to keep weight off.
I wish him the best, but don't think this will help a great deal.
What about the fact that he started this weightloss process two years ago at 410?
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hope so, dude costs too much $$$ to sit him
What are his base and bonuses this year? I know he was a highpick but is he really thaaaat overpaid?
Just curious...
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Well I would have it so that the 5th next season is escalating up to a 2nd round pick if Brown makes the pro bowl and other conditions. Getting 2 picks plus a solid player for a guy coming off an injury that sidelined him for a season and a guy who is going to be demanding a big contract plus he isn't super young. I think its a fair option for the Saints.
a second next year and a third this year translates into the value of about a second this year. Whitner is not of value to new Orleans, they are stacked in there secondary also, and the general consensus is that sharper will likely be back still. I know I can't link to a schefter article -- I live in new Orleans. Players live in the same building as me. There are about a dozen guys on the team on the same block as me. did you see the video of drew brees at the bar teaching his chant? I was there, it's about 200 yards from my condo and A LOT of players go there regularly. I have friends in the front office. I say this not to brag but to let you know when it comes to the saints, I can give better then average insight. The hope and expectation is that sharper will be back. Things happen but I'd say it's likely, perhaps very likely.You are very generous offering the value of a second round pick and an unneeded player IF brown can meet a condition of producing as a probowler next year. What you don't realize that if freeney was healthy, bushrod would have probably cost the saints the superbowl, he did cost them Dallas, and hurt them badly in numerous games. Bushrod didn't play in a game this year becuase the staff benched him for performance issues.
If your looking for a player to include, I mentioned Kyle Williams as a player, aaron schobel might be another they could use to replace Charles grant.
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no doubt he is a first rate left tackle . His value dips a bit due to age, contract status and the incredible amount of players who the saints are going to have to pay over the next two years
otherwise they would not even consider moving him
Agreed. Like I said, there is also tension in the relationship.
Whitner, little to no value in nola. Even if the saints lose sharper, Gregg has designed this system for a ballhawking FS that can produce 7-10 turnovers. Is that Donte? No. Doesn't make him bad, just not a fit or need. If the saints would want a bills player I would look to Kyle Williams. Knowing both teams inside out, it's the almost the only one that would make sense.
If the trade was straight picks, look for a first... Maybe Williams and a 2 or 3. Whitner is not a probowler, not at a premiere position, and not a need for the saints. Bushrod was awful and jeopardized far to many games this year. He was either getting beat or taking backs/te out of pass patterns to help him. A major weakpoint on a very dynamic offense. Why trade a probowl LT for a marginal upgrade at safety and a huge downgrade at tackle.
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Whitner is not Elite but he is good not average. If our depth was as good on the rest of the team as the secondary we would be undefeated every year. Please stop talking out your arse. If they are high on Bushrod I believe they would take the trade. Although I have not had a chance to check myself I have heard places other than this board say that he can't handle elite DEs so I don't see why a team that is limited as to who they can sign letting a pro-bowl OT go. Only stupid teams trade Pro bowl LTs without a replacement. I do not believe Brown is peters caliber so I would not give a first for him.
Im a season ticket holder in new orleans, and have watched every bills game since i was about 8..... Whitner is middle of the pack as far as safeties go. Im not a whitner hater, he is a starting caliber player in this league.
Jammal Brown -- 2008 stats -- 3 sacks allowed, highest rushing average in league behind a LT. Two time probowler. The gap between those players is FAR MORE then a 3 and a 5 next year.
Is Jared Gaither worth the 9th pick?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
It's true. Also, the patriots got Brady in the sixth. Why can't these schlubs find a hof qb in the 4th or 5th.... Depending on when the have that LT targetted. I think at 9 they should just draft the Lombardi trophy, in advance of the superbowl those late round flyers will win for us.
Oh wait... One guy a rule does not make.
And ps. It's just a first, not a 1 and 3