NoSaint
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I brought this up in the other thread -- how can anyone begin to evaluate him? He's had something like 7 coordinators in 8 years dating back to college.
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The thing is it is really hard to know what he is as a qb -- dating back to college hasnt he had like 7 coordinators in 8 years or something ridiculous like that? many of them completely changing systems, and making him start over from scratch learning an offense.
Ive seen him play some stellar games and some terrible games. If we picked him up, we would need to go line - line - line in FA, and draft. Weve seen he cant play behind a crappy one. if we got a strong line that kept him upright, I could see him being an 8-10 win kind of QB consistently. I think he can lead a fringe playoff team year in and year out (think garrard, schaub, and a host of others that are always in the wildcard hunt -- not style, but ability to win), and with some lucky bounces, maybe a little better.
is that better then what we have? yes. is it the ultimate goal? no, i dont see him winning a superbowl. but the playoffs would be a big step for this team at this point.
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Gregg Williams claims that he argued with the Bills scouting department/Management because he wanted to draft QB Drew Breeze, but he was over-ruled and they selected someone else instead!
well thats just flat not true--- he wanted him in the second round, and the chargers took him first...... and its Brees.
If you really want to complain about passing him up, when he was a free agent is really the only time we did it.
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what a team it would be..... all people that started more then a little
QB -- holcomb?
rb -- Shaud! bryson
TE -- Lonnie Johnson, Rob Royal
T -- Marcus Spriggs? Gandy? mike williams... not even going to touch last year.
G -- Bennie Anderson, tutan reyes
C -- Duke? Melvin? Trey Teague? so many choices....
WR -- peerless and josh
DE -- Erik Flowers, Chris Kelsay
DT -- Tim Anderson, Leif Larsen
lb -- spoon, robinson, ellison
CB -- Watson, Irvin
S -- Raeon Hill, keion Carpenter, travares tillman, izell reese? awful names looking back!
k- jake arians
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I am not sure of the legality. But if the player refused they could always cut/suspend them citing other reasons. Personally, if I am in and NFL FO or I'm an owner, investing the amount of money some of these guys command, I would do the same thing. If the guys aren't lying to your face then they have nothing to hide...and if they are, you may want to think twice about that investment. JMO.
Thats like saying if Im a police officer and you deny a polygraph I should arrest you. Thats why I questioned the legality. If he did that, the player could turn around and sue.... atleast it would seem. I dont know -- It just jumped out of the article at when i read it.
On the flipside I whole heartedly agree that you have to be careful who you invest in.
Is the civil rights debate can of worms about to be officially opened?
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Must be there weren't enough "Lynch to SD" threads?
thanks for keeping it on top -- why comment if you are so sick of them? you could just let it fall off.
I understand the skepticism for the topic but i dont think the idea is 100% off base. If McNeill wanted to leave SD it would cost us a first and a third -- theres not much to debate -- in a few weeks we could sign him, and it could be done. Unfortunately because of how high our first is, it is unlikely for that to happen.
If Lynch is comparable to a third, Ive offered up a trade that is a 2nd and a 3rd. If there is any potential for a holdout, worry about mcneills back, bad blood that isnt public etc... Then maybe san diego might look to move him for some sort of value rather then letting him sit on the bench.
All I was getting at is
1) Do you think there is any potential for tension between he and SD that might force the hand? I havent followed his career that closely, I know they were close two years ago and then backed off and havent gotten one together since. Any word on how talks are going now maybe?
2)Would you be interested/what would it take if they did decide to move on?
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A PFT report today referenced an arrest and the fact that shanahan used to polygraph players... Just curious what people thought of this. Is it even legal in employment law? I know it would seem highly out of place in the ordinary workplace -- but then again, the NFL isnt so ordinary.
"It's the second arrest of a Redskins player since Mike Shanahan became the team's head coach. In Denver, Shanahan admittedly used polygraph testing on players who found themselves on the wrong side of the law."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...-meter-to-zero/
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Its true -- who would ever trade a LT.... i mean wait.....
Realistically though there are pros and cons to both players. Obviously mcneill has more value
Investing in Mcneill you must worry about his long term health with his back problems. Does AJ Smith want to give a probowl LT contract to a guy that might develop health issues? Marshawn though terrible off the field would be a big addition to that offense. He is one strike away from sitting, but theres no saying if McNeill might not be in the same boat with his back.
Marshawn has a price tag under a million dollars next year I believe -- as opposed to paying 6-8 million for sproles (what was the number for him to be kept around?). Marshawn can be kept for a reasonable length of time for an affordable price -- it was a rough year last year, but he has shown pro bowl ability and under a million dollars is a heck of a bargain.
There were rumors that mcneill was close to signing 2 years ago but talks broke down and have never gotten as close (atleast that i have heard publicly) since that time. Maybe there is something more there, and mcneill and smith still dont see eye to eye? maybe mcneill was a nix guy.... he was the SEC scout there correct?
We have ties to the front office now -- ala NE and KC, or many other connections you see around the league. It makes it easier to atleast talk.
Am I saying its going to happen? likely not, but i dont think its worth throwing out the window as impossible. What type of pick do you think it would take to add on? Would you do marshawn and a 2 for mcneill if that would get it done?
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Lynch for Castillo, Merriman, and Cromartie
No, but if he is tendered at the 1st and 3rd, and they dont think they can work out a deal --- or are concerned by his injury problem -- Would they take maybe lynch and a second or third?
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I have heard all the rumors of marshawn to SD for either a pick or Cromartie.... What about Marshawn for RFA Marcus McNeill? Throw in some picks to balance --- is it even possible?
I havent heard much of how his long term negotiations are going with SD, and of course we would have to sign him to a hefty deal afterward but......
i dunno just an idea to throw out there.
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pretty sure Houston isn't taking on two large salaries with a lockout looming.They are paying Mario Williams a lot of money at DE as well.
I dont think the trade is very realistic either -- but marshawn is not a large salary this year. Like 800k this year I believe.
atleast that is what the san diego media said in an article about trading for him
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Also wasn't Pat Williams 'too old' and that is why TD didn't sign him? What is he now 37? And the guy is a probowl talent still.
That 30 year old barrier doesn't apply any longer.
That might be a bit of a bold statement there. Yes, players don't just shrivel up and become ordinary joes on their 30th bdays, but let's be honest.... There is a trend that after 10 years in a violent sport, they tend to get a step or two slower, more prone to injury, etc.
Favre played well last year but I don't see anyone saying that mcnabb and manning have 10 more years. An example does not prove a rule like that. It's possible, but generally unlikely that he will be a probowler for 5 more years.
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The problem with the point charts -- the early picks have changed in value SO much since those have started floating around. 70 mil contracts have changed everything in the top 10 as far as "value"
but yes, it would still cost a ton to move up those spots, a number 1 next year and additional picks/players would be a starting point... Atleast roughly....
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DeHaven might have given his approval and hired Kwan himself or Kwan might have been hired by Gailey who is assembling the staff for all his units. Per the hiring of the defensive assistants prior to Edwards.
I suspect that Edwards was likely talking to Gailey about those decisions, and just not publicly introducing them, as he was keeping the new job hush-hush. Of course, thats not based off anything other then my own thinking that he was lined up long before the hire.
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I wouldn't mind either of these guys, even though they'd both be a stop-gap player for a few years. Seymour is 30 and Chambers is 31, so they're both also approaching the downside of their careers (if they haven't gotten there already).
I don't know if Seymour would fit into the 3-4, but he'd certainly have enough motivation to play against Belichick twice a year.
hes pretty much prototype for the 3-4 end actually, but versatile enough to play 4-3 as well. exactly the type of player you need if you are planning on mixing them up.
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The Colts were out coached really? Take away drops by Garzon and Reggie Wayne and it's a different ballgame.
I disagree, I think that a game between two very evenly matched teams coaching made a world of difference.
1) Sean payton and staff recognized that baskett turns early on kickoffs early in film study. They practiced the play for a week recognizing a colts weakness that the colts coaches did not. If the special teams coach recognized this problem before the game, they would have never even attempted the kick as the problem would have been corrected.
2) more film study -- the porter pick was all about out preparing the colts. Porter knew that play call from really strong prep work -- his first words after the game were "we saw on 3rd down they call that play a lot"
you could argue that if not for the early colston drop, brees just missing meachem on the first drive, or mike bell (?) slipping at the end of the half the game wouldve been a blowout. neither team was perfect for the entire 60 mins, but it was about as well executed game as I can remember.
PS. freeney was hurt -- the saints lost their starting Probowl LT in training camp. things happen.
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Not to mention you've wasted time chasing something you won't get. Buffalo tried to obtain DL Israel Idonije and G Reggie Wells in 06 and were denied by their teams, Chicago and Arizona respectively. Given that Buffalo's front office can only sign one guy at a time (see Evans and Peters in 08) most likely they removed themselves from pursuing other UFA's in Dick Levy's first foray into an offseason together.
Perhaps that why the crown jewel of the 06 offseason was current UFL scrub Larry Tripplett.
i was implying you might be able to use schobel as the trade bait on one of the MANY rfa's available this year
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So this is a topic in about 3 active threads so why not consolidate -- where does Aaron schobel fit next year. Is his value in a trade or as an OLB.
OLB: yes, he is small, and a pass rusher. Can he follow a receiver or TE on a seam route? Can he read zone coverage? Is he fluid in his hips to turn and run in coverage? I know many say he will be a "pass rush specialist." what is this exactly? It sounds like they expect him to play DE again. If that's the case why really switch even. That 4th man with his hand off the ground is supposed to be a wildcard, not just a pass rusher.
Trade: older, large contract -- played well last year, and many of the 10 before tho. Might gain worth for a final 8 team. Someone like the saints who will likely be replacing a DE, and can't chase a free agent might be inclined to trade for one.
I see him likely gone, even though I'm a big fan. It's much easier for a 20 yr old to make that switch then a 30 something. Hopefully we can get good value for him. Player for player and get an RFA in here with experience in the system, or a first day pick?
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a 33 yr old DE playing OLB?? silly
Maybin?? I doubt he has the football skills
1.POZ-yes-an average NFL LB
2.Mitchell?-yes-a barely average NFL LB
3.FA
4.draft pick
Schobel will be a very tough change -- maybin more likely but still a huge ??? Poz could play on the outside or inside.
1)maybin
2)poz
3)Mitchell
4)FA or rookie
that's worrisome at best. Who is off then bench if anyone tweaks anything? Palmer? Harris? Scott?
Not a good situation without 2-3 real players brought in. Plus 2-3 on the line... Big project ahead.
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Amen. That and the fact he's woed 25million fish on his contract. Schobel is not going anywhere for anything less than a 2nd round draft pick. If he is traded. I can not see him retireing. He might be the one forceing Buffalo to move to the 3-4 defense. I think he will be a monster in the 3-4. He is a good football player, who makes plays for the Bills. I think
Schobel is going to make a lot of Bills fans happy this year.
Is that based off anything in particular? Not trying to be rude with the comment either -- I just don't have memories of schobel covering a TE, slot receiver, or rb down the field. There's more then just rushing the passer as a olb. Can he play man? Read zones?
Living out of market I don't see as much as I'd like but I don't recall anything to make anyone think he can do that????
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I guess what I'm getting at is the example in your sig is -- get cody and we are good to go ::
This may not be the personnel lineup some envision but it would mean we only need one additional body to play NT. This Would give us a ridiculous amount of run stuffing beef up front. Maybin and Schobel would play in more space and would be free to go completely nuts attacking the QB from the left, the right or both sides.
Realistically, it's 2 NTs that we agree we need, and I don't see schobel switching -- does anyone see him covering a TE on a seam route? He just doesn't have the speed, or the hips. Regardless, say he makes the change -- who's depth at lb? At de?
The 3-4 switch is not a bring in one man transition, even in it's best case. If we hit 50% on switching DEs to OLB we need about 4-5 players in the front 7 to field a serviceable team for a season. The front 7 is made up of far more then 7 players, and we are stretching to find those. Imagine if we pick up an injury, say a guy doesn't make the transition, a rookie doesn't play great out of the gate. If everything falls PERFECT -- no injuries and everyone transitions, Cody turns into a 3-down player, your front 7 looks average at best anyway. It features a rookie, and 4 people switching to new positions -- not to mention poz and Mitchell in the middle which isn't even a given for success (do you want either one taking on a lineman? Ever?)
I like the 3-4 but we are much closer to a very good 4-3 with our guys.
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Well if the Bills front office was dumb enough to only keep one NT on the entire roster that would indeed be a problem. Fortunately they will probably be smart about it and get a free agent NT to compete with Cody in camp and rotate with him like they do with other over sized NTs.
So do you propose anyone in particular?? It's a legit question. Cody is a rotational player, not a stud NT-- atleast yet. If he reaches best case and plays 50% of the snaps, at a serviceable level (he's still a rook) who is playing the other half. It's a tough position to fill, and by saying Cody is the guy, it simply isn't full yet.
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Don't panic. Check the signature.
Im just not sure how we can expect cody to fill that role every down, when he doesnt even do that in alabama right now. If we go with cody he cant be relied upon as a 3 down player.
Next problem, what if cody, or whoever we bring in gets injured? who is the backup NT. As thats the anchor of a 3-4 front 7, its important to have more then 1 person that can go.
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Hmmmmmmmm
I know im new here, but i simply dont get the confusion over defensive schemes on this board. Most of you (the writer of this post included) know A LOT about football but it seems get caught up in the name of a scheme, instead of actually looking at the plays run..... just scared by our last coaching staff i guess.
As it turns out 3-4 doesnt equal blitz happy and man coverage all over the field. You can run a 3-4 cover 2 as well. Sadly if we switch straight to 3-4 without a major personell overhaul it will likely resemble a 3-3-5 nickel if a nic harris or scott fill in as one of the extra linebackers (ie 5 dbs, 3 lbs, and 3 lineman) .... we will see what we sign and draft to bulk up the front 7
also, if we go to man instead of zone, it doesnt mean that safeties will be playing straight man coverage all the time... probably still rare in fact. he will likely be in a similar situation, with just some tweaks in how he reads the play in front of him.
Who was your hidden gem that you mentioned here...
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I'll go ahead and link the TBD thread for you -- if you REALLY want I can try and track down some of the articles quoting him.
http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/index.php?showtopic=107849
I'm a season ticket holder for the saints, and a huge bills fan. I've heard Gregg talk about the buffalo experience all year, and I pay particularly close attention to him when he does. It has changed even this year but most consistent has been the trade up story. Gregg is a big talker. I would take the story with a grain of salt to begin with, but if you are going to listen to it, the trade up is the most common version.