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Mt Washington makes the list! So our post 1990 list stands at... - Thomas Jones - Jason Babin - Cedric Benson - Leonard Davis - Jimmy Smith - Kyle Vanden Bosch - Ted Washington I'm blown away that we're struggling to find 10 players over the last 20 years who flamed out on team #1 and found subsequent success on a 2nd chance... WOW!

Actually just the opposite if you read through the thread. Don't ever bother with players that didn't make an impact and flamed out on their original team (regardless of which team). The success stories on 2nd chances are very few and far between...

How would you contrast McCargo's situation with Donte Whitner? Is it the same thing? Whitner was a 5 year starter, though obviously a disappointment.

The definition of a BUST is that you cut him loose for got nothing. If you received some compensation then other teams recognized the players value and compensated you. The Bills tried to trade Aaron Maybin and there were no takers, while we were able to get value out of Willis Magahee. The are both 1st round disappointments in Buffalo, but you wouldn't consider Magahee a bust. The point of the question for me is two-fold 1. Are the Bills worse at player development than other teams? 2. Is signing cast-offs from other teams be part of a good strategy? I think the answer is taking shape... 1. The best indicator of success in the NFL is a player being successful with the team that first drafted him. Regardless of who that team is or who is coaching it. There aren't a bunch of high picks from the Bills, Bengals, Browns, Lions cast-offs making the Pro Bowl with the Steelers, Ravens or Patriots as they're laughing their way to the bank. Conversely, cuts from the upper echelon teams are not finding secondary success with the lower echelong teams that are starving for talent. For better or worse, coaches in the NFL can detect a good player when they see one and aren't cutting loose good talent. 2. Simply don't bother signing players that never cut it with their original team. If they didn't make it with that team, regardless of how highly you ranked them coming out of college, then they just weren't good enough for the NFL and move on, ignore them. That's what the data on this question seems to say...

Ricky Williams was major trade to Dolphins for 4 draft picks Jimmy Smith is a good one! Trent Dilfer left as a free agent. He led Bucs to playoffs and twice threw over 20 TD passes while there Donte Stallworth was traded from NO for a player and a 4th pick Kyle Vanden Bosch is a good one! So our post 1990 list stands at... - Thomas Jones - Justin Babin - Cedric Benson - Leonard Davis - Jimmy Smith - Kyle Vanden Bosch ...any others?

Lloyd was traded by 49ers for a 3rd round pick

We seem to be running out of steam, here's the official list as it stands now... - Thomas Jones - Justin Babin - Cedric Benson - Leonard Davis - Gary Anderson - Vinny Testaverde - Steve Largent Seven total players. ONLY 4 guys on it that were drafted since 2000?? Can that be right? How about Mario Haggan, cut loose by Bills and starting in Denver??

That was a trade, not a bust.

Welker was traded. He was an RFA as well, Dolphins did not want to give him up. I'll add Jones,... Mike Williams is still TBD whether he should qualify. On your last paragraph, go ahead and list them. The common perception is that its commonplace, but I think what we're finding here quickly is that its really NOT so...

Excellent point...

Good one! So we have... - Gary Anderson - Vinny Testaverde - Cedric Benson - Justin Babin - Steve Largent - Thomas Jones Steve Young was traded, Jim Plunkett was traded. Doug Williams left for USFL due to salary dispute with Bucs Cris Carter led the Eagles with 11 TD catches but was cut because of drug/alcohol abuse by Buddy Ryan This list MUST be longer....

I guess that's what this question is looking to address... lets see how long the list is that people from the crowd?

OK, I like the list so far... lets keep going. I'm going to keep Unitas off the list as it goes back too far before football operations were anywhere near as sophisticated - Steve Young - Doug Williams - Vinny Testaverde - Cedric Benson

A few weeks ago there was a discussion that prompted the following question... What NFL players, any team, have been a BUST on team #1 and then became a SUCCESS on team #2? Lets define BUST as someone who was drafted by team #1 and cut loose after 1-3 years as a failure. NOT people who were traded, left via free agency or were cut in a salary cap move. Lets define SUCCESS as someone who became a multi-year starter (off/def) or at least 1 Pro Bowl... NOT special teams stand-outs. I'm having trouble coming up with any from any team...

I think we could be back on track to projecting a Jauron-inspired 7-9 year! Its amazing that would now be considered success?!?

Bills game is playing this morning on NFL Network (game started at 7am) I have to say that as I watch Fred Jackson slithering through the cracks, he looks just like Thurman Thomas used to look with his running. I'm happy for CJ Spiller to keep developing and growing, but Jackson is just a really smooth player who deserves to play!

I like the way you say that as I'm a bit confused. Can a 304 lb guy really be an outside linebacker in the NFL?? Shouldn't we be playing a 4-3 with Carrington/Edwards as DE and Darius/Williams at DT? It seems to me that he's just too big to be a LB. Teams will game plan to exploit his lack of speed at that position. I'm thrilled he's playing well and want to see him on the field. But, I'm sure that I'm showing my ignorance on this point...

If 1 pans out we'll have a #1 and #2 receiver. That would be success! I don't think I'm expecting for 2-3 of them be stars. Failure is that we get a season and a half out of Housh and then we start looking for that #2 receiver. Signing a veteran receiver in his 30's is a move for a rising team... like when we got James Lofton. For us we need to see if there's a 2nd young gun in the group.

the desire is to find out how good they are?? I would relate it back to all the discussion about Steve Johnson in the year we had TO. He went from something promising to a zero factor because TO took up all the snaps on a losing team. In addition to those three there's Jones and Aiken who we keep hearing about. David Nelson had 31 catches last year,... can he go to 50-60? Naaman Roosevelt averaged 15.4 yards/rec,... can he maintain that at 30-40 catches? Why is Donald Jones #2 on the depth chart,... does he belong there? All more important questions to answer than,... does TJ Houshmanzadah have 1 or 2 good years left?

The FO has to project what the prospective growth of this team's situation is... respectable this year, wild card next year, contender 2 years out. That's our BEST CASE scenario unfortunately. With that as a "trajectory" the relevance of Houshmanzadah is ZERO! Either another strong receiver is among the younger players or we need to keep drafting/finding them. Signing Houshmanzadah is a waste of time, money and effort from building this team for the future.

OK, given that we're project at #31 in Power Rankings and we would all be exclaiming playoff level success if this team reached .500, doesn't it make more sense to let young players rise to the occasion than stopgap a guy like Houshmanzadah for a year? Just like everyone was saying that TO took reps away from Stevie 2 years ago, Houshmanzadah prevents us from seeing if David Nelson can be the same kind of guy... BUT YOUNGER! We traded Evans so that Nelson, Jones, Aiken and Roosevelt can be tested to go alongside Stevie and Roscoe.

Do we really like Houshmanzadah better than Lee Evans??? I thought the goal was to give the "young guns" experience and a chance to step? This would be a very puzzling move....

hmmm,... I agree with a lot of what you're saying. Also, your point on odds manipulation is correct. We'll see what happens with Aaron Maybin (Jets) and James Hardy (Ravens), but Bill's castoffs don't have a big track record of success. That's why it doesn't get discussed much. There's not a bunch of Darryl Lamonicas running around out there helping other teams to the playoffs/SB... I have to think about this a bit, but I'm having trouble coming up with much of any examples of players that failed on team #1, who then became stars on team #2?? Any help out there?? If that's the case, then the odds strategy may have even more merit?

I think its way premature to think about this approach based on this year's draft

Absolutely,... the strategy could work as a guideline and the decision to trade back is made while on the clock. That's when you'll get the best offer anyhow All great points as well!!