section122

I think the bolded is absolutely correct. I was sick to my stomach when I saw Sammy got traded. I think he would have been better here than he was in LA but that is a product of being the only talented guy on the team. Different sport but Chris Bosh on the Raptors comes to mind. Good player that looked better than he was when he was the lead dog. When he went to the heat we saw where he stacked up. Still good but not the superstar we thought. However reading about his behavior and attitude and it wasn't surprising that they traded him. Marcel pulled a stunt during preseason and it looked like he was testing the water to see how the "new" Bills would respond. When I coached I preferred players that might have been less talented but hustled non stop vs guys that were talented and decided when they would try. I'm interested to see how this goes as I like the approach they are taking. It is kind of the Marv looking for "good guy" but they appear to actually have an eye for talented "good guys" Lot of draft capital and cap space to reshape this team in their mold going forward. Hope it works!

I won't disagree with this but I would like to add: I think Sammy and Marcel getting traded was a bit of a wake up call to each of them. They were fawned over for their careers whether it was warranted or not. They are both immensely talented players and I think they might have a had an aura of "I'm untouchable" to them. When they got traded they realized anyone can be moved on from. We saw the reflection from Sammy about his time here. That immaturity should have been handled here and speaks to your post but the Rex show didn't help either of those guys imo.

Wow you put it very well. It was more than a little annoying to see all last week that the only reason the Bills made the playoffs was because of Andy Dalton.

1. Maybe he should have some fear? You seriously watch that and thought "good for him"? 2. All time hot take right here. Tom Brady threw 12 as a first year starter in 15 games. Nate threw half that in 4 quarters. Drew Brees 16, Big Ben 11, and Aaron Rodgers 13. No throwing dumb picks isn't some great feat they are just dumb picks. 3. never mind you outdid yourslef the very next sentence. So Tyrod didn't push himself or try to get better? 4. Get off his back? why do we need to see him anymore? He tried and failed quite spectacularly. Also I'm some random internet dude. If me thinking he sucks is the barrier to him being a great NFL qb well I've got some bad news for him...

haha yeah hindsight really showed this to be one of my worst bets! Good thing it only cost some crow and not $$$ We did talk about how the Eagles set out to help Wentz. During the first 2 days of FA they signed 2 wrs and 2 o lineman. The Bills let their top 3 wrs go. Rams did much the same with Goff signing Wrs and O-line. This was a rebuild year though that somehow resulted in the playoff so while I have egg on my face I also have a big smile. We made the playoffs with a bad roster and are stacked to (finally) address the qb position in a meaningful way.

It is a billion dollar industry. I won't say Russian mob but to believe it is entirely on the up and up would be naive at best. Putin still have Kraft's ring?

It has to be Kamara in a landslide. Hunt and Fournette burst onto the scene but faded, McCaffrey didn't put up the numbers Kamara did. Lattimore plays a position that is too hard to quantify. Add in Kamara was a fantasy monster (yes this matters more than most believe imo) and I think he is a lock.

This is the one sticking point with me. Calls can be whatever the league decides but it needs to be consistent. If James was incomplete then so should this have been. I think James was a td and this should be an int though so who knows

I'm with you that I thought live it wasn't an int but I really don't see the conclusive evidence. I see the ball move but I also think his arm is under it. Of all the blown calls this year that went against the Bills or for the patriots for that matter this one would be low on the meter for me. I can see overturning it and I can see letting it stand. When that is the case I can't/won't get upset about the call.

What? I even finished my post with imo. Its a message board isn't every post our opinion? Especially ones that end with imo. Why though is it a guarantee that he will get better? There are thousands and thousands of examples of players just not making it. He got a shot and threw up all over himself. 5 picks isn't just kind of bad it is historically bad. Listen I could end up completely wrong about this but I don't think I am. I don't see an NFL qb when he is behind center. I have seen him make a couple of NFL type throws but they were littered in between fumbles, picks, and poor throws. Don't hate the guy but don't think he can make it in this league.

The problem lies in all rule books. Rule books have a spirit of the rule and the letter of the rule. Where football is getting into trouble is they are trying to follow the letter of the rule. We know what a catch looks like however when teams like the Patriots push the boundaries then trouble arises. Remember the ineligible receiver nonsense against the Ravens? When we see a catch we all know what it looks like however many of us would struggle to explain it.

It is time for me to pay up on a bet made with an astute and knowledgeable poster who knows much more about the QB position than I do. I made a preseason bet that TT would outperform Carson Wentz. I thought his last 12 games of his rookie season were who he would be going forward. I'm here to eat my crow. Pre-injury he was likely the MVP of the entire league. Eagles did a great job (much like the Rams with Goff) in getting him talent at receiver to help him. Wentz took a huge leap forward this year and I was wrong. So Ryan L Billz where ever you are.... Wentslyvania baby! He pantsed Tyrod this year! So let this be the thread. Did you make a bet with a fellow poster that you now need to pay up on? I did win a bet this year as well on Cam so 1 for 2 ain't bad!

When making a play on the ball isn't contact allowed? The whole idea of a cb needing to get his head around before making contact and this isn't any different to me. He was clearly going for the ball and out-muscled the WR. Then he made a great play to clinch the game. Not much to be upset about to me at least.

This is one of those calls that we screamed about with KB. Can't have it both ways folks. If you have to look at every minute thing to see if it was a catch it should be ruled a catch (or int). This is one of those cases. It looked like a pick and maybe just maybe it moved slightly but I would rather calls go this way than the KB call.

So would you say you are concerned?

I disagree whole-heartedly and I'll do you one better. I knew after one half of the Chargers game that he has no shot in this league. What is ridiculous is saying he will be better than Tyrod. What in the world have you seen to say that? Is it because Tyrod is so bad in your opinion that anyone could be better? We've seen across the league that isn't true. Why do we need to wait another year to see what he has? What are the chances that he could be good? Seriously what percentage would you give him? I would rather draft 2 qbs next year than see Peterman under center again. I don't understand what people have seen from him to make them think he has a chance. All I see is well Peyton was bad as a rookie or Big Ben had 5 picks in a game. He is nowhere near the prospect as those guys nor does he have the resume to keep getting chances imo.

This is an excellent post. I'm all done with Dennison. To your bolded that is how I felt in the moment of the benching. The one thing I will say is there is no shame in being shut down by the Jags. Yesterday was their 8th time holding a team under 10 points. Andy Dalton, Big Ben, and Joe Flacco were among the qbs and a host of bad offenses. The Bills have a bad offense and not surprisingly were shut down. Yesterday I had a party and a few of my friends started calling run or pass before the ball was hiked. They aren't Bills fans and it was the first game they had watched of them all year. That was eye opening for just how predictable the offense was. There is or should be some shame in that. There is zero innovation on the offensive side of the ball. I'm really nervous what Dennison will do with/to a rookie qb.

Absolutely. It doesn't have to be a Tyrod vs. Nate thing. They can both be bad. For some reason Nate gets a ton of excuses for his play. He has 2 tds to 6 ints and 2 fumbles. Don't give me the peyton manning nonsense. 1 was the #1 overall pick and one was a 5th rounder. Nate is bad. Like shouldn't be on an NFL roster. The qb of the future is not on the roster right now. If Tyrod stays it will be as a placeholder until the new guy is ready. Nate Peterman will never on purpose (meaning unless injury) start another game for the Bills and I would be really surprised to see him on the team next year. He has shown one thing this season and it is that he can't play in this league. Doesn't make him a bad guy just can't cut it.

Yup holidays were killer but I'm holding at 220 which is nice. Bills in the playoffs is bad for my diet as it means booze and tailgate food. It's a sacrifice I'm willing to make lol The green one is definitely my favorite! BOlthouse farms also has some good ones.

I would prefer you address number 5 however.... 1. If not for a lot the Bills wouldn't be in the playoffs. There were a lot of plays made by all BILLS players that led to them being in the playoffs. Crediting Andy Freaking Dalton is nice since that game gave the team the last nudge but that pass only mattered because of what the Bills and Tyrod did. If the Bills didn't beat the Dolphins they wouldn't have been in. If they didn't win the games they did they wouldn't be in. Well I won't argue you here There is much room for improvement as a passer. He is however a serviceable qb until we find that top 5 guy. I would hate to see the team move on without a plan in place. We've seen that happen with Andy Levitre, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and others. The Bills can try to get better in the off season without making themselves worse. However all of that is for the off season. Right now I just want to enjoy that we still get to talk about what the Bills could do THIS sunday.

What about the last 2 years where it was 13 and 16?

1. Yeah I don't see any appreciation on this board for him doing it. I see on the front page a charity thread for 2 players from a different team, threads about trading him, drafting his replacement, this backhanded thread, etc... 2. Please show me these posters. Transplant uses stats and facts and people refute him with "the eye test", JfH has given up his kool aid card. The CoT is a group of us who don't think he is the worst player in the NFL. Anyone who dares to defend him in any way is in the "CoT." I'll defend the hell out of him. He broke a streak that hung over all of our heads. If the Ravens game ended first would we be giving Andy freaking Dalton the credit we are? The day we made the playoffs was one of my favorite sports days in many years and I have to come to my favorite site on the internet and get my cheerios pissed in. 3. I won't argue that and even I wasn't that optimistic. This team has a lot of holes. Getting to the playoffs should be a testament to all of the players on the team. Not just Tyrod not everyone but Tyrod. The whole team deserves credit for this. I disagreed with many McDermott decisions, Beane decisions, and Dennison decisions among others. I give them all credit though for being part of this. 4. TT had his worst games this year but on a whole he improved many of the things he was knocked for before the season. He threw to tes. He threw to the middle of the field. 5. He wasn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but he is in a handful of guys that have good and bad games. Tyrod's Cincy performance which we all agree was probably his worst was the 79th worst qb game by qbr this year. I won't try to argue the 56 and 65 yard passing outputs they were terrible what I will say is context matters and there are many qbs each week who completely stink up the joint. He is in the handful of guys that will have great weeks and terrible weeks. Look at Derek Carr week 3 and 16, Andy Dalton week 1 and 15, Jameis Winston week 5 and 8, Philip Rivers week 3, Alex Smith week 3, Dak week 11, Cam week 3 and 16, and Kirk Cousins week 13 and 17. All of those games were in the bottom 50 of qb performances this season. That's a lot of guys who everyone thinks are better than Tyrod and they had worse (sometimes multiple) games than Tyrod's worst game. People need to watch other teams to truly see the state of NFL qbing. Too many people watch Brady and think everyone is doing that. My apologies. Your wife is a very wise woman! I amend it to I haven't seen anyone on this board change their opinion of him

This is the **** right here that is infuriating. Tyrod is somewhere around the 20th best qb in the world. Let that sink in. There are approximately 10-20 guys that are better than him in existence on the planet earth. Taylor's value hasn't risen at all. Nobody that hated him before this has come around on him. Even in your post where you are trying to almost give him credit you can't do it without giving credit to Dalton and the Dolphins. The Bills and Tyrod beat Jay Cutler just 2 weeks ago. Is it really far fetched that they would have done it again? Andy Dalton gets 300k from Bills fans for one throw. How much money went to Tyrod's charity this week for being the qb the entire season save one Peterman start. I think what I have always thought. He is a serviceable NFL QB. You can win with him as evidenced by his starting record with the Bills. Could the Bills improve? Sure. This is smacking though of cutting Fitz just because anyone has to be better right? Want to draft a guy and have him and Tyrod compete? I'm all for it. This nonsense about him being figured out has to stop. He has brought our team to the playoffs. Something no other qb has done in almost 18 years. Can we give the guy some freaking credit for once?

I am at a breaking point. We should all be celebrating this week. Instead it is the same absolute nonsense. Andy Dalton gets 170k to his charity for one pass. Tyrod leads the team to a 9-6 record and gets no credit. Tyrod gets benched and responds by leading the team to a 4-2 record and the playoffs for the first time in forever. Either QB is end all be all and Tyrod should get credit for leading the Bills to the playoffs OR QB isn't as important as some claim it to be and the Bills made the playoffs in spite of him. You can't hold both opinions unless apparently it involves Tyrod. We are in the freaking playoffs and people want to whine about our qb still? How about thanks for getting us to the playoffs? How about thanks for ending the drought? Nope the same inane duh Tyrod is terrible duh. We know what Tyrod is and right now that is the QB of the Playoff Buffalo Bills. After the playoffs end we can resume hearing about how xrushx, shady, twoandfourteen and others KNOW that Tyrod is the antichrist. While the playoffs are on and the Bills are alive ENJOY IT FOR PETES SAKE To all of you that said Tyrod could never do it, to those that said the Bills would go 4-12, to those of you who said he is a backup qb or rb at best in this league, to those of you that said Nate freaking Peterman starting was still a good decision even after the results, to those of you who wouldn't be optimistic after week 15 or even week 16 because Tyrod was sure to lose to the Dolphins, to those of you who can't enjoy this without complaining about Tyrod I've got 2 words for you. SUCK IT. The Bills are in the playoffs and Tyrod got them there. I dealt with the stupid CoT nonsense all offseason and all year and I feel vindicated. "The CoT" kept saying with a competent defense the Bills could be a playoff team with Tyrod at the helm. In the words of one of my favorite posters around here: Tyrod just pantsed all you haters! Go Bills! !@#$ Doug Marrone and !@#$ the Jags! and if you want to B word about Tyrod instead of the Bills being in the playoffs then !@#$ you too!!! Let's go!!!!!!!

btw 3 pages in. Is nobody going to comment that the link is broken and redirects to the op's post Or did everyone just skip the link