Ronin

Here's the thing, that question, about what the alternatives were, is a loaded question designed to end a discussion. But here's my answer. The "alternatives" were last year, the year before, etc. Team-building is a process, not to be confused with the cliched "The Process," which hasn't shown much veracity as of yet. You mentioned the contracts of Brown and Beasley. The reality of this team is that there have been very few contracts of top-end players. That tells us something. The biggest money contracts for us have been Lotulolei (1st), which tells us more. The next biggest on their watch, Morse (injury concern, now playing out), Hyde, Beasley, and Brown. (also an injury concern) As I've pointed out, if the historical frequency of 100-yard games among Beasley, Brown, and Jones plays out this season, we'll log two (2) 100-yard games all season among those three. None are prolific WRs nor even close. So as I see it, unless Morse stays entirely healthy, and right now that's not the case, already, I see one team-changing signing in the batch of 5. And yeah, I get it, the narrative is how much we've improved our WR-ing corps. If that's so, then as I"ve argued, why are Jones and Foster being included in the potential list and discussion of (by both fans and team alike) three starting WRs? Also, let's say that the Jets of Fins had Brown, Beasley, Jones, & Foster. Who here would be talking about "how we're going to stop the Jet or Fin passing game?" That's a cut above laughable. But for some reason here it's different. Again, not to get the masses' panties all in a wad, but rather to point out the power of the narrative. But what's a narrative? It's talk. Talk is cheap. If anyone should know that it's us Bills fans, wouldn't you say. Lotulolei hasn't been a rousing success. Hyde's been good. The others are all new, two of the three with injury risks that if they don't play out we'll be lucky, again, one already playing out as we speak. That's not "bad luck," that's having taken a high risk for which we are seeing the consequences of that risk. If those risks play out during the season, should the staff be rewarded? "What the alternatives" were, also include not letting yourself get to this point. Right, clearly. Most of us have been saying that we've needed WRs since Beane/McD took over.. OK, so then why is it that the only WR they've drafted in the first five rounds now in three of their drafts has been Jones, a small-school one that excelled in situations that simply and obviously aren't going to be the case in the NFL? In fact, he's one of only three WRs taken at all, another no longer even on the team not having lasted long and the third, McCloud, being a STs role-player. Seriously, why? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever given the make-up of our team upon their taking over. Yet, ... Is that strategy something to be applauded? I don't think so. Many do for reasons that I don't understand. I mean seriously, explain that. Do you consider it to be good management? I sure don't. The only argument is that we've been active for WRs in free-agency. OK, so what. What has that netted us? None were top players much less impact players. But hey, if you let your team get to this point, where we were desperate for WRs this offseason, it forces you to make decisions that could have been avoided with proper planning, which frankly, I'm not seeing from this FO. It necessarily indicates a lack of vision for building the team. When you're always trying players with few actually working out, then chasing your tail the next offseason again, and the next, etc., then it doesn't exactly scream out competence. The attitude of this (or any) forum is hardly an indicator as the majority opinion, and for sure the popular opinion(s), are clearly reactive, not proactive. Which is fine I guess unless one wants to rationally discuss aspects of the team as we're now doing. And why people seem to take personal offense at things said should be the first eye-brow-raising issue. That's emotion over reason. Again, not good strategy. This FO has signed a ton of players that fans have been counting on. Why? Because the team told us how instrumental they'd be to one extent or another when they signed them. But I don't recall nearly the revolving door of free-agents on any GMs watch as we're seeing now in terms of volume. Many that they've signed aren't even here anymore. Their strategy, in the absence of a truly viable one, appears to be one of throwing up enough mud (FA acquisitions) against the wall, generally cheap ones, hoping that enough stick. Well enough haven't stuck. Kelvin Benjamin, Andre Holmes, Corey Washington, Corey Brown, and Jeremy Butler to name just the WRs. McCarron, Trent Murphy, another injury-risk player that they had hoped would "return to the form" of a single best season and not one of his other two, he wasn't cheap either at ~ $7M/year. He hasn't been worth it. Then there are things like signing average OL-men, that made scant contributions on horrible offenses to begin with, to replace the average-or-so OL-men that we've had, and everyone gets excited and exclaims how much we've improved. Why? And again, with the lynch-pin of the entire new OL now being injured, per the risk that came with him after having missed nearly half his games over the past few seasons. Pending Ford's development I don't see much improvement w/o Morse on that line. And if Morse can't go, Bodine's his backup at C. "What would I have done?" Already stated, I'd have taken Risner over Ford, who had a better pass-blocking grade to begin with, but who has also played Center effectively. But hey, what do I know, right, I'm not an "expert." So what brought them to this year wouldn't have been my strategy. Ergo, so when you ask what the alternatives were, I'd tell you that I wouldn't have been in this situation. As stated, which should be well-known barring selective memory failure here, I would have drafted, in a NY second mind you, Smith-Shuster over Jones. I was stunned that they chose Jones over SS. Well, that's one problem solved that we wouldn't have had going into this offseason. If Allen doesn't work out, and I'm not big on his odds, particularly after looking at even more data yesterday evening, then my strategy of using the 5 day 1 & 2 draft picks that we had last year to rebuild other parts of the team, instead of turning those five picks into merely two players, will also be looking better. I'd still have gotten Edmunds whom I said we should have taken at 12th. I'd have gone for a QB this year, Lock perhaps, who frankly, is all but a clone of Allen except that he played against much better competition and doesn't have the athleticism. But again, I wouldn't have been looking for a rushing QB or a hurdler, I'd have been far more focused on a QB's passing regimen. Anyway, that would have left us with the 22nd, 53rd, 56th, and 65th picks to rebuild the OL then, along with another position or two. Again, we wouldn't have been in a desperate OL position this offseason. So that's kind of a loaded question. Look at it this way. You trust a guide to lead you through some sort of precarious situation to safety. But he ends up leading you down an ally way with no escape from the threat. Then he looks at you and says, "what would you have done when we were at that last intersection?" That's not really the question, the question must then go all the way back to the beginning and ask what you would have done from the onset, because someone with vision wouldn't be in that same spot. This team hasn't had any vision in team-building since Polian was so thoughtfully (sarcasm intended) fired. Again, had we drafted Smith-Shuster, which I thought was the no-brainer pick at that point, by a million lightyears over Jones anyway and a solid foundation for years to come, at least at one WR spot. Then perhaps back-filling spots with second-tier Free Agents would make more sense. What doesn't make sense is signing second-tier free agents to start. What makes even less sense in inheriting a team all but bereft of WR-ing talent, and not addressing it at all in the draft short of taking a small-school WR with issues as such. And again, if Brown is hindered by injuries again this season, do you really see a big difference over our squad from last year? With the exception of Beasley it will be virtually unchanged. I've already pointed out how, on Beasley's ill-thought-thru comments, his biggest areas of impact to date in 7 seasons, situationally from a statistical perspective, are Allen's single biggest areas of weakness in his game. How those two align to help Beasley is beyond my imagination. As to Jones, the talk about him was the same as it is about Oliver now. My arguments on both are similar. The treatment back then was to point to Jones' record-setting numbers and decry them while openly dismissing my concerns. Funny tho, some of those same posters now say that collegiate numbers don't translate to the NFL in discussing Jones. That's something I've known for decades, but hey, better late to the party than not showing up I suppose. Also funny is that for Oliver they once again do. At the end of the day they still don't. As to Oliver, I think we'll be lucky if he ends up being better than Phillips. Would that be worth a 9th overall if that's how it plays out? I said "what I would have done." I'd have taken Hilliard, the best pass-pro OT in the draft. Does that make sense to you? It did to me. My team right now would be Hilliard and Dawkins at the Ts, Morse at C with Risner backing him up, Risner at G otherwise, then our next best OL-man at the other G spot. How does that sound? I'd be somewhat more jacked over Allen's chances as such, particularly for the future. It's also called protecting and doing one's best to see to it that the investment that is Allen succeeds, to which both Beane's and McD's futures are directly and exclusively tied to. Our team had a different methodology, Process if you will, than I would have. So next year, it won't be fair to ask me what I'd do then when I'd have done things differently now. Point being otherwise, I'm not sure that The Process is working. If it were, then perhaps we wouldn't be where we are now, and having to ask, what someone else would have done. Eh.

Alright, no problem. If I don't respond to you in the future it's because I can't see your posts. No sense for me to read nonsense like this. Have a good existence.

I wouldn't say far too many. There have been a bunch, but there have been a lot more that simply haven't lived up to their draft hype. One notable one, Torell Troup. There are many big-school DL-men that never live up, the odds of the small school ones isn't greater. Besides, this notion that because other players of similar backgrounds did something is hardly a reason as to why another player will or won't. My point is simply this, if a player like Oliver struggles against OL-men that don't even have a legitimate chance of getting drafted, and particularly against double-teams as is the knock on him, that can't possibly be an indicator that he'll succeed and do better against NFL caliber OL-men. Who would argue that it would, but that seems to be your argument. We'll see, perhaps "coaching" or whatever will make the difference, as I said, if I had a grand, I wouldn't bet it on the fact that it will happen. If others want to take personal offense at that, so be it. Doesn't bother me. I'm simply challenging narratives. Remember the narratives on Lawson and Ragland. All we heard was how Ragland should have been a 1st-rounder and what a steal we got. Yeah, a real steal. Anyone that knows college ball knows that Bama puts out more system players that never perform to expectations in the NFL than quite perhaps any other school. Just sayin'. That's what happens when you have a college team chock full of four and five star recruits, overall you're so much better than the other schools simply because you're solid at every single position including depth. Doesn't necessarily mean that they're all independently great. That was also the case with John McCargo. I said at the time of his drafting that A, his numbers weren't as impressive as they sounded, but because of the talent on his DL, particularly the DEs, Mario Williams and Manny Lawson, who allowed McCargo to play better, but he never posted great numbers at all. I never understood why he was considered a top prospect. It's wise to consider those things before drafting a player. I do, I have no idea why our front office never has. As to Oliver, we'll see. I hope I'm off. Either way, Beane & McD aren't going to survive here unless Allen makes a massive leap this season into the realm of the top-15 anyway.

Butler was fun to watch. Too bad he wasn't young enough to stick around as the team improved shortly after he left. Reed, Smith, and a few others had just come on as his time here wound down. Some good players on the team from those years. Smerlas too. Bell. A different era tho for sure. Fun.

Well, if you want to argue that point, of the ones we've taken, so far Jones at 37th overall doesn't look too good. Looks more like a wasted pick if you ask me. Smith-Shuster, the guy that I was on record as saying would have been a much better pick, USC, is lighting things up. Could have had him. Allen's already got pretty good sized issues that are residual from his collegiate play, he's no shoe-in either. I'd say that the odds are more against him than for him. As to Oliver and Singletary, time will tell. Doesn't really matter what you or I think, you have to agree. But if they end up like Jones, well, your argument vaporizes. In this thread, ... someone posted the list of the NCAA all-time collegiate receiving leaders. 7 of the 10 were non-power 5 small school players. Not one did anything even remotely equivalent relatively speaking in the NFL. Corey Davis has been the best but he's been average at best after two seasons. So I guess I'd ask you, which all the other small school guys that have done well. Sure there are some, but far fewer than the bigger power-5 schools. Just looking at last year's draft, five small school guys were taken in round 1. Of those, only two even came close to living up to expectations, one of the two only moderately so. Allen being among the other three. Either way, guessing from your post, I think we're all supposed to acquiesce to the notion that small school players have the same odds of starting in the NFL as players from the power-5 conferences do. Well, OK, as long as you think so. I'm good with it.

The thing is that they've invested much reliance upon a handful of guys that have significant injury issues, either keeping them out of games (Morse, Foster, Knox) or limiting their playing time and effectiveness in addition to missing games. (Brown, Kroft) They can lecture us how they all would have been all-american or all-pro had they stayed healthy, or whatever, but if they can't stay healthy it's all moot. Beane really hasn't made any high-level moves. His biggest signings money-wise have been Lotulolei, Morse, Hyde, Beasley, Brown, and Murphy. It's an unimpressive list, the only player that even approaches being an impact player among the is Hyde unless Morse can prove that he can make it thru a 16-game season. But Morse and Brown both have injury histories, Morse's is already playing out again. Also, Morse is good but I'm not sure I'd call him an impact player. He's not as good as Wood. There's way too much reliance by this team in general on improvements from players that can't stay healthy. The fact that they've put themselves in that situation is worrisome.

Tremendously well summarized!! My concerns about Foster are that he was a big play or nothing and as any seasoned NFL fan should know, you can't routinely win with "big plays" being your primary weapon, to the contrary in fact. To start, two of his three biggest passes were thrown by Barkley. Otherwise, of his top-8 receptions, 6 were against really bad teams, the Jets, Jags, and Lions, 4, 5, and 6-win teams. In his best four games he averaged 4 catches for 103 yards and 1/2 TD, which is great production to say the least. But in his other three games during that last 7-game stretch he averaged 3 catches for 33 yards. My single biggest concern tho is his injury issues. He was plagued with injuries throughout college, so much so that the schtick on him is that he would have done much better if he hadn't been injured, but that's speculation to at least some extent. Obviously he'd have done "better," but how much better. But my concern is that again, he's injured. Players that are constantly injured more often than not remain that way. To your point, it's difficult to be consistent when you're injured. Same with Morse, our biggest FA signing IMO, he's hurt now too also with a history as such. Knox's status is also similar although he's not hurt yet. Then there's Brown, arguably our second biggest FA signing, he too has a significant injury history. Again, tough to be consistent when you're not on the field.

Interesting. The very first thing that our FO should have looked at was a list like that while having paid particular attention to Hardy, who preceded Jones at EC. Hardy's rookie season at EC was better than Jones' rookie season, and Hardy's other three seasons were all better than all but Jones' senior season in yards, and all were better than Jones in terms of TDs and YPC. Yet, with Ryan throwing the ball in Atlanta, Hardy's been purely a depth player. I suspect he would have done much better on a team like ours which has been begging for good WRs, still, it's unlikely that he would be better than a depth WR, like Jones, regardless. Here's the thing, Hardy was a 4th/5th round prospect according to NFL.com's draft profile on him. So frankly, besides looking at Jones' senior season which was laden with garbage-time production, in a big way, with little TD production contrasted with the number of catches he had, translating to a TD every 20 receptions in his senior season, 1 TD every 17.3 overall, I have difficulty understanding why the draft profile difference between him and Hardy who logged one TD every 6 catches as a senior and 1 TD every 11 catches overall, with a better Yards-per-Reception in his last three seasons than Jones ever had there. It can only possibly be an overemphasis of his senior season, because his other three seasons were absolutely nothing to write home about. And frankly, Jones misses that list by 73 yards with 4,279.

I'll agree with you but for a different reason. At some point this FO needs to start having some of their day 1 & 2 draft picks work out, more so than they are. White has been good despite a sophomore slump. Jones hardly, and he hasn't lived up to his draft status nor even close. Dawkins has been tremendously inconsistent, to inconsistent to render him worth a 2nd round pick. Allen remains to be seen and this will be a defining year if only in terms of the leap he needs to make as a passer. But Phillips wasn't great either. Edmunds is still among the youngest players in the league and I suspect that he'll be fine. Oliver and Ford top that list for me immediately after Allen. I have no idea why Lawson is even on there. He's a known quantity and has slim-to-nil chance to even come close to justifying the Bills' faith in him as the 19th overall four years ago. Shady's 31, he's had a great career, if he makes a major upturn it will be highly unusual given his age. For McD and Beane the only thing that will matter in terms of their sticking around is Allen. If Allen improves to the extent of proving himself an average-plus passer, then they'll get a stay. But they're that not happening away from likely looking for work, regardless of how anyone else on the team plays. You don't turn five day 1/2 picks ranging from 12th to 65th into two players, Allen and Edmunds, not have it work out, and stick around. Not gonna happen.

Quiite the interesting comment considering that over the past 7 seasons while Beasley was on the Cowboys their passing game ranked ahead of ours every season. Also interesting that Allen's use of the slot WR, Beasley's position, was hardly prolific, rather it was more problematic. And frankly, what is our system? They're changing it this season, again, to suit Allen's deficiencies. Also interesting, I just looked, Beasley's most productive situations from an efficiency standpoint were on 2nd & 4-6, 3rd & 4-6, and 3rd & 7-9. Those were Allen's three weakest. 30 of 69, (43.5%), 316 yards, (4.58 YPA), 1 TD, 10 sacks. Not sure it's wise to predicate statements like that on OTA work, but hey, we'll see. Hopefully he's right and won't be disappointed.

I watched enough highlights to know that he's not going to be outrunning many NFL defenders, regardless of position. Again, that was against crap competition, players that will never be starters in the NFL. How much more will he struggle against the best as such. In evaluating players and their likelihoods of translating their success to the NFL, it's very important to separate the stuff that depends upon a team around a player vs. that which does not. Open field running does not for example, and generally speaking I didn't find Singletary all that impressive in the open field, to the contrary in fact. Those bulleted points that I included in the post that you quoted state as much. So why that's going to change and improve to the extent that he'll become average in the NFL much less great is beyond me. Stuff like that simply doesn't happen. I often think that people make their predictions something along the lines of assuming that because his numbers were so gawdy that a good percentage of them will transfer and even if that's half it's good. I'll be absolutely shocked if he ever posts a 1,000-yard rushing season, anywhere. And I've gotta tell ya, same with Oliver. I've seen him get stood up one-on-one more than I care for against OL-men that will never even get a crack at playing in the NFL, and while here the narrative is that he's good against double-teams, his draft profiles typically say the opposite, namely that he struggles against double-teams. Again, those double-teams being by linemen on teams in the AAC. I posted elsewhere some weeks ago that he'll have faced absolutely no OGs/Cs that got drafted or will have much of a shot in the NFL. Again, from nfl.com's draft profile on him; Gets mauled by down blocks and double teams Struggles at times when offenses run downhill at him Gets clogged up against wide-bodies Hello NFL! Who do people think he'll be playing against in the NFL? Gs and Cs from the AAC? LOL, hardly. Offenses are often going to run downhill at him and he'll be seeing plenty of double-teams, especially at 3T. I'm simply unconvinced that at ~ 280 he'll have the power to play DT like that. I for one wouldn't bet any money on it happening. BTW, that's man-on-man/men. Position doesn't matter, what matters is how he performed against those linemen that will make it to the NFL. I see problems, for the life of me I cannot see why, as with Spiller and Watkins, the narrative is so great on him. His play was largely situational, bad teams with OL-men that won't be in the NFL much less starting there. Beating up players on teams like Rice, Navy, and Tulsa simply isn't very impressive to me, certainly not so much as to take a guy in the 1st-round with that risk. But people see what they want to see. They'll look at 20 plays and ignore 100+ and draw a global conclusion. That's poor scouting, which is why draft science results are all over the map, and on top of typical human element business factors. Anyway, in keeping with the small-school mantra. Some of those guys work out but a lot more don't. I'll add one more thing, I also don't understand why this FO seems to perpetually place their biggest emphases on players with significant known injury issues. Morse, again already struggling with injury. Knox with a litany of injury concerns. John Brown too. If Morse doesn't play I dare say that I don't see much improvement in our OL at all. Knox was our biggest and really only big move for a receiver in the draft on their watch. Brown is obviously everyone's big hope to "stretch the field" to cite an overused cliche. I'm not sure that it's so wise to make your biggest moves to correct the biggest areas of need with players that have major injury histories. Morse is one concussion away from never playing again unless he wants to risk his welfare down the road. BTW, hence the edit, now we're reading about Foster's injury. Again, reliance on a player known to have significant injury issues. Then everyone here during and at the end of the season will use injuries as an excuse for Beane/McD. Why? They made their choices, it's simply unwise to do what they've done and to rely on injury-historied players as such. I mean seriously, what are we expecting, that all of those players all make it thru the season here simply because they're here? It won't be an excuse if they flop because injuries, they were known risks.

I hope I'm wrong too, but there's no way that his rushing impact is like Henry's. There's absolutely nothing in his draft profile that even hints at that. Henry was a much bigger RB too. Here's the thing, if you're going to be a diminutive rusher in the NFL, you'd better have speed. I've watched his highlight reels and that speed simply isn't there. It's just not. He's regularly caught by players that weren't even the fastest in college and I doubt any of them will even make the NFL as starters. He doesn't have anywhere close to enough corner speed to beat NFL edge guys. I pointed out his stats against the three power-5 teams, against which he had only two TDs. Well the Oklahoma TD was in an absolute rout and came at the end of the game against OU's third string. It was irrelevant. The other was a 1-yard run in an otherwise completely lackluster performance with negative receiving yards. I'm also not the only one to notice his speed issue. nfl.com's draft profile says this; Lacks top-end speed to run away from opponents in space That much is clear from watching him. Keep in mind, that's not against Clemson, Bama, and OSU, it's against largely teams with no defense in the CUSA otherwise. So it seems highly unlikely that'll change with the bump up to the NFL where many linemen will be faster than the LBs and DBs that he saw in college. Anyway, he was a 4th (at best) or 5th round prospect by most and there were a slew of comparable RBs left on the board. I don't think that it was a wise use of a draft pick at that spot much less an efficient one. The people that want to think that he's the next Shady or whomever should do so while they still can. Here's the other thing, if Singletary does excel in the receiving game I have a very difficult time believing that it's going to be under a QB that all but ignored his RBs out of the backfield last year and was easily by far and away the worst QB in the entire league in that way. It simply makes no sense for that to happen. I mean honestly, so many things have to happen for that to be the case that it's unreasonable to think that they all will. That's the primary problem with Allen, in college too, he tries to be superman, doing it all himself, either heaving deep balls or running. You've gotta understand as a QB that you need to rely on the rest of your team and utilize them to the max degree. He's far from that and has never done that. But if Singletary is going to make a splash as a receiver, Allen's going to have to change colors. The closer and closer we get to the season the more and more I'm starting to be interested in the progression in this forum from September to December. I have a strong hunch that we're going to go from how Beane is finally a GM that "gets it" alongside McD knowing what he's doing, to being all but burned at the stake with everyone wanting to burn down OBD and send the Pegulas packing. LOL I sincerely hope that's not the case, I hope that Allen makes corrections that no other QB has made before with the ultimate success, I hope that our 2nd-rate starting WRs play well above their heads, that Knox is that diamond in the rough that everyone's hoping for, that what is an average OL according to PFF's ratings actually plays better than that, the McCoy's age doesn't do to him what it does to just about every RB at 31, that Gore still has something left at 37, that Singletary otherwise steps in to replace what he and Shady once were, that Oliver, who rarely beats double-teams and often struggled against OL-men that won't be playing anywhere this fall steps up and as a diminutive DT that played inferior competition that has no chance of ever making it to the NFL does so in the NFL, then on defense to have a defense that ranked 30th in the red zone will make monster leaps for some inexplicable reason, that a D that lost one of its three primary pass-rushers along with one at the age of 36 now who has only logged sacks and pass-pressure inconsistently along with a third that at 31 now hasn't eclipsed the 7-sack mark in four seasons will for some reason improve their 26th ranking in sacks without having added any proven sack artists, etc. Just seems like a whole lot that has to happen that is unlikely. It's too much for me to think that it's all going to come together. Particularly when Morse, our biggest free-agent addition is already hurt after having missed 14 of 32 games the past two seasons. He's had several concusssions, singificant foot injuries, and now this, whatever this is other than to know that they've said that they hope he's ready for camp. As I said following the draft, who plays C if Morse can't, what, Bodine again? Aren't we all but back to square one then? And of course we're going to have injuries to our starters, all teams do, including us every season. I mean where can we really afford to lose a starter? I don't see anywhere.

You seem confused. What's exhausting is watching and listening to people such as yourself defend what our FO does despite any indications that they may not be doing the right things to build a team, and having this go on for 20 years. Then, at the end of a season like this one everyone wants to drop nukes on OBD. It's beyond comical. So if you want to talk about "crusades," try not hitting up one of the few people actually calling a spade a proverbial spade simply because you don't like it much less agree with it. That's a crusade, having to listen to pep rallies until it's obviously to a drunken sot what predictable realities really are. NFL history provides a wealth of data, information, patterns, and trends. Unfortunately most fans around the NFL prefer to be blind to those things. Those that heed them are labeled, in mob-rule crusade fashion. So if you want to talk about crusades, try starting there. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people have so little emotional control that even simple arguments turn them into raving lunatics. I mean people talk about Singletary as if diminutive small school RBs come to the NFL all the time and light it up when that rarely happens. It doesn't happen, the opposite happens, and there are a large number of reasons for it, reasons that people ignore. You can believe whatever you want to, which most people here and elsewhere do anyway preferring the "ignorance is bliss" route. Your points were about Jones, but it's the same thing. I can't believe that anyone really thinks at this point that Jones is or ever will be anything but a 3rd or 4th WR in the future, here or anywhere. But in order to have a rational discussion, which so few here seem to want to do as this place is far more a place to hold perpetual pep-rallies, one simply cannot take that ignorance is bliss approach. Still, I have no idea what your overall point is, you haven't even approached making it clear other than to make it clear that no matter what I say you'll have an issue with it. Again, "crusade," ... start there. Anyway, goodbye. If I don't respond to you henceforth it's because I'm not seeing your posts. Don't take it the wrong way, I just don't want to see your posts anymore. I have neither the time nor the inclination to figure out what, specifically, the point you are trying to make is. LOL

I don't know why our staff is obsessed with small-school players at the top of the draft on days 1 and 2. Jones, Allen, Oliver, and Singletary. That's four of our 10 day 1/2 picks on their watch, which doesn't include the extra day 1/2 picks traded to get Allen. Singletary as I see it is the RB version of Zay Jones. Gawdy numbers against nothing competition. Of his 22 TDs, 5 were against Bethune-Cookman this past season, a whipping-boy team, which is about as nothing a team as an FBS team can play. They're an FCS team that has seen a mere two of its players drafted since 2000, both DBs, in 2003 and 2005. If I wanted to gather some insight as to how he might play in the NFL I'd take a strong look at his splits and how he played against the ACC, Big Ten, and Big 12, the only power-5 schools that he played. He had 44 carries for 162 yards (3.68 YPC) and two TDs in three games for an average of 15 carries, 54 yards, and less than a TD/game. That's a far-cry from his 6.0 YPC average overall and his 6.15 YPC otherwise. I have a difficult time believing that he's going to excel in the NFL, especially when I read things like this in his draft profile at nfl.com; Play speed tends to be monotone throughout the rep Rarely keeps runs play-side and looks for early cuts Excessive cuts will be met with earlier tackles from swarming, NFL defenders Will need to learn to run a more disciplined track Tendency is to bounce it to his left Even reminds me of that RB we used to have that used to dance around in the backfield, was it Bryson? Those to me are worrisome issues and not something that seems destined for NFL greatness. They're difficult things to coach in if they can be at all. As a three-down RB I simply don't see it. What I can see is him possibly becoming a good receiver out of the backfield as a role-player ala Darren Sproles. I'm not at all a big fan of Bama RBs, but in this case, and if they really had to have a RB here, I'd have taken Damien Harris. I don't see him being great either but I do see him being better than the diminutive Singletary. Here's the thing, if Singletary does develop on this team as a receiver it'll be half a miracle since we ranked 31st in Yards-After-the-Catch last season. The reason is clear, that Allen's always looking deep for the big plays that he overlooks the high-percentage gimme stuff underneath. McCoy averaged fewer than 15 receiving yards-per-game last season with Allen as the QB. Ivory averged just over that, for about 30 recvg. ypg and fewer than 3 catches/game between 'em. None of the other RBs did anything significant in the receiving game. So I'm not sure how that translates to Singletary doing much as a receiver OOTB. That's what the staff is going to have to do to fix Allen, is get him to throw more dump-offs and high-percentage passes where he lacks touch as well. If they can do that I will be impressed. We'll see tho, this time of year hope abounds.

Ignore all context? You serious? LOL What you seem to have done there is to ignore anything that doesn't suit you. And after all, we know that only Jones played against tough Ds, none of the other WRs in the league did, in fact, none of the other WRs on our team did either apparently. Good humor. It's always fun reading here. Particularly as the season progresses. BTW, you are aware that Jones ranks among the worst in the NFL in catch%, aren't you? If not, you may want to add that to your repertoire of whatever it is you just said there. He improved notably from '17 to '18, yet last season ('18) he ranked 176th (out of 202) in catch%. Up from 210th (out of 212) in '17. A whole lot of people here don't seem to think that that's relevant. As to Sills, I think it' speaks, screams actually, volumes that Sills put up a TD for every 3.8 catches. Whereas Jones put up a TD in one of every 17.3 catches. Have fun with that one. Sills put up a TD for every 60 receiving yards, Jones put up on for every 186, over three times as many, and the competition that Jones' faced isn't even worth mentioning in the same breath as that which Sills faced in the Big 12. Sills scored a TD in 68% (over two-thirds) of his games. Jones scored a TD in 41%. Jones was one of the most overrated WRs to be drafted in years.

You can do whatever you want. Everyone else does. If that's a defense of Jones however, it's pretty pathetic.

It's obviously not the popular take, but that piece explains perfectly exactly why we ranked 31st in Yards-After-the-Catch. Those YAC come from the short high-percentage throws. For anyone to dismiss that is to set Allen up for failure.

I agreed with this following last season, but given the team's refusal to address the WR position adequately, as I see it, with Jones having been the only WR that they've drafted now in four drafts in the first 5 rounds, and with Allen's progress and NFL status hanging in the balance it should be added, I'm not sure how they can afford to release him. Which is telling. I mean Jones ranks among the absolute worst in the league in catch-% as you can see above, not even at 50% in two seasons. He's scored TDs in only 7 games, 5 of which have been divisional games, with 4 against the Jets and Fins who've sucked, the other against the Pats in extreme garbage time down by 3 scores on one of the last plays of that futile game. Only 3 have been in wins, two of which against Miami and the Jets, where needless to say, if we needed Jones to beat them, well, ... He won't start, at least not all season long, whether one of the other largely unknown commodity WRs beats him out for a depth spot remains to be seen. Like many of us, I fully expected them to draft a WR in rounds 1-3, 2 or 3 anyway. I have no idea what they're thinking. This group of WRs, pending Foster's development, isn't even an average group on paper right now. Same with the OL, it might be average, but it's not much more than that. I just don't think that they're supporting Allen anywhere near to the extent that they should have, or perhaps rather that what they have done while thinking that they did simply isn't going to cut it. It's strange, because as Allen goes so too will Beane/McD go. At least Whaley was smart enough to recognize that when he made that idiotic trade to draft up to get Watkins, he too simply didn't have a clue. We'll find out soon enough. But seriously, for Brown, Beasley, and Jones, in 202 games with stats among them they've collectively posted a mere 8 100-yard games. That translates to about one 100-yard game every 25 games among them, so based on that history, we should expect a 100-yard game from one of them every 8 games, or twice this season. In contrast, in 11 games last season with stats, only three as a starter, Foster put up three 100-yard games. He had another of 94-yards, which best Jones' best game. The questionable thing is that he only did that against the Jets (twice), Lions, and Jags, none of which were good teams, the Jets being particularly horrid. Troubling is that in the other 7 games Foster had 24 targets, only 11 catches (45.8 catch %), for less than 19 ypg avg. First time players often surprise as D's don't plan for/around them. So we'll see how that develops. But as I see it, this team's passing game will go as Foster goes insofar as the WRs are concerned. Beasley's a fine slot WR but he won't carry a team and doesn't play a WR position that Allen looks for first. Brown's entirely overated and somewhere between a starter and depth player. And Jones, as you indirectly imply, can only make the team due to the lack of viable WRs otherwise. His salary is what's keeping him here. He's cheap and therefore no-risk. I mean WRs like him will be available at numerous points throughout the season on waivers.

Yet strangely, on a power-5 team Sills' stats dwarfed Jones' TD production was nearly three times was Jones' was in their Jr/Sr seasons. 35/13 TDs. Also, with Sills being a considerable reason as to why WVU was 7-6 & 8-4 in the Big 12 while Jones was largely a non-factor in helping EC win games in their 5-7 and 3-9 seasons, largely mopping up stats in garbage time and in 5-spread formations that aren't common in the NFL. If Jones does much more than he did last season, I'll be pretty surprised. Catch % Career: Beasley 70.9% Foster 61.4% Brown 50.2% Jones 47.2% Sills was around 55% according to nfl.com's draft profile: Just 55 percent of throws his way were completed Otherwise, Jones' draft profile and Sills are comparable with the exception that Sills at least played against players that will be in the NFL. I'm far from convinced that this staff knows what to look for in WRs. Here's the summary from Jones' profile at nfl.com, which I thought was favorable at the time, although the end-assessment I agreed with generally speaking; BOTTOM LINE Possesses high football character and a desire to push himself forward. Record-breaking receptions totals in 2016 were due more to scheme and excessive targets than separation ability or top-end speed. As a one-on-one receiver on the pro level, he will have to prove he has the speed and quickness to uncover against man coverage if he is to become more than just wide receiver depth. The bolded was obvious from watching his highlight videos. EC was usually playing from way behind in about half their games, garbage-time city. The fact that our staff didn't manage to work that into their lofty calculations on Jones while making him their sole tenable WR prospect in four drafts now is worrisome to say the least. Beasley, Foster, and Brown will be the starters. Again, an average bunch at best at the moment on paper. The narrative on Brown, namely him being some great deep-threat WR doesn't match the reality of his 1/season TD catches of 30+ yards, only one of which has been in the past two seasons. As always, we'll see what happens.

It's interesting, there's not even a consensus here as to which WRs are the top 3 this season, yet, the guys that we brought in were a massive upgrade. That's interesting given the talk about Foster and Jones being among the starters. Of course popping the narrative by stating the reality that the guys brought in are nothing more than average NFL starters, on a good day, understandably isn't very popular. We'll see if the guy whom last year was trying to jump thru a 30-story window to "fight for Jesus" can get it done. I gotta tell ya tho, I feel sorry for Allen. These charade "upgrades" aren't going to help him nearly to the extent that he needs the help.

One word: Chemistry

The point was that I'm used to being "outnumbered" as such, and in a vast minority. If I weren't, then we'd be on a several season Super Bowl winning streak right now. We go thru this nonsense every year. Yet, Lawson, Ragland, Spiller, Manuel, Watkins, etc., none of which I liked, in the 1st round or otherwise. Almost categorically system players. No one sided with me on any of them except for perhaps Manuel to a reasonable extent. Literally, I cannot think of one single person anywhere, that agreed with me on Spiller or Watkins. Apparently I had my head so far up my ass back then that I was in perpetual darkness. Well, the 99.9% was flat out incorrect. My methodologies were perfectdly warranted, weren't they. I gotta call it here. PM me if you want to discuss more. I've really gotta let go here.

Again, exceptions. Do you happen to see that exceptions are not things that can be used to establish norms? Anyway, I've gotta run. I'm done with this topic. We've beaten it to death. I understand the viewpoint. It's popular opinion vs. anything else. I get it. I'm simply not a conformist. Also, as Bills fans we've been thru this for years. As an exercise, go thru the 2017 draft and look at all the players that never anted up to their 1st-round status, and ask yourself why you think we're exempt. ALL of those players were chosen and almost categorically draft analysts talked about how they'd all help their teams to that extent. Yet, many haven't come close. And to be frank again, EVERYTHING is riding on their pick of Allen as such, who was the second worst passer in the league last season. If that situation doesn't materialize, make absolutely no mistake, there will be no encore for them and it's curtains, on to the next HC/GM. Doesn't matter what this draft class does if Allen doesn't work out soon. It's foolish to think that we're exempt. Otherwise, from NFL.com's own draft profile, in agreement with me in things that I've stated or implied, here are some of Oliver's negatives. I guess whomever compiled that for them is clueless as well. That against OL-men that he won't even see in the NFL. I think that those are significant although I acknowledge that you and most do not think that they are. What else can be said, agree to disagree. Lacks functional length Gets mauled by down blocks and double teams Struggles at times when offenses run downhill at him Gets clogged up against wide-bodies Unable to sustain early jolts into extended power Backdoors blocks in lateral pursuit rather than winning across the face Forced to work excessively at disengaging from blocks Failed to convert explosiveness into impressive sack totals That wasn't my point.

Well, I was on an island like that when I insisted that Spiller would bust. That was the case then. I was on an island like that when I stated plainly that no WR was worth the kind of trade-up we made to get Watkins ans that Watkins succeeded in college on the types of plays that simply don't work, and frankly aren't used, in the NFL in suggesting that while he may bnot bust but that he would not in any way be worth that idiotic trade up. That was the case then too. Similar with Lawson, Ragland, Manuel, and a bunch of others over the years. That was the case then too. I got exactly the same treatment then. So yeah, I'm used to it.

I've been darn good at analyzing our picks over the years. I always take this kind of heat when projecting anything less than the highest of expectations. I'm not certain how you're defining your rating system, so I'll hold off on commenting on that. We'll have to disagree that Oliver "blew away" 5's tho. I see that he outplayed them, but not anywhere near to a level that would indicate to me that his draft narrative is what it is. Again, spot on on the highlighted stuff, but allow me to comment. Now, the problem with your nit-picking is that we are evaluating players and projecting what they can do at the next level. This is correct, I am using competition faced at the 1-on-1 level to project how he'll play in the NFL. Given that the jump in strength and speed, which is acknowledged regularly by NFL players, will be extreme, correct, I'm not seeing that ability for Oliver to match up as such. Let's leave it at that for now. You are not critiquing strength, athleticism, etc. That's not true. I'll argue that by saying that most are completely ignoring the leap in "strength and athleticism" that he'll face in the NFL. All of these assessments here, team, draft, etc., assume that the other 31 teams sat still, or that only our draft picks are going to all work out, while any failures can naturally only be on other teams. That much is apparent by the mindset, which is all but ubiquitous. I've fully accounted for it, on BOTH sides, not just the side that I'm trying to justify. I'll say this too, that too many times people overevaluate "strength and athleticism" to their detriment. It's happening now with Allen. Allen's status as a franchise QB isn't going in any way shape or form hinge primarily on his athleticism and strength (arm, if history doesn't spell that out in spades), it's going to hinge upon his ability as a passer. Since his athleticism and strength have run away from his ability as a passer, anyone that's conducting that analysis w/o compensating at such is missing the meat & potatoes of the situation entirely. Yet, that's what's happening. I keep repeating, what apparently everyone knows but doesn't want to recognize, that Allen's biggest issues are mental, an inability to read Ds and check down. Coaches can't really fix that. It's a historical truth. Not saying that it won't change, but the odds of it changing are far less than them not changing. It'll have to come from Allen, which is why my methodology would have been to build the NFL equivalent of the Atlantic Wall around Allen, which they didn't do. Allen's going to have to work this out on his own, something he's never done, in the NFL, in real time. You see that happening? Same for Oliver. To imply that there's not going to be an enormous leap in the speed and athleticism in the OL-men that Oliver faces is to ignore reality. You know that. We can't simply make a projection for Oliver based upon circumstances that won't exist in the NFL. Same for any player. You are critiquing technique and other things that are corrected by NFL level coaching--something he hasn't had. Again, my counterargument is that the underlying assumption here is that our coaching staff is better than the rest of those in the NFL. I don't believe that it is. If it were, then why haven't Lotulolei and Phillips, to name two, played better? If it were then why were we ranked 30th in red zone D last season? On the offensive side, if we were, then why couldn't the staff get anything but "only better than Rosen" who's already been written off, from Allen? I hear what people are saying,, but the reality ain't following suit. Thanks for the fantastic back-n-forth!! Doesn't matter whether they got a draftable grade by you, they were drafted, which means that by most draft analysts and scouting depts, they were. Otherwise we'll simply have to agree to disagree. Let's see where things stand come November.