chris heff

That was my first thought exactly.

I love a good imaginary trade. Good job on the positions by round.

Better coaching last year. Better coaching last year.

Passive aggressive. 17 of 32 for 200 yards and 1 TD is just not getting it done. Teams don't need game manager QBs. What this team needs is Payton Manning, 22 of 35 for 403 yards and 2 TDs. The Colts need to draft a QB in the first round.

Will you give it up EJ Manuel had nothing to do with this loss. You are so hell bend on being right about your personal analytics that you can't see what is in front of you. The defense gave up more running yards to this team than they had gained all year. Manuel had the team in position to win the game twice and twice the ball was fumbled. How many touch downs should Manuel have thrown to over come the lack of effort and concentration by his teammates? Maybe Manuel should complete passes to himself, so that he can then prevent fumbling.

Kyle Williams on the field for warm ups.

Drafting a QB in the first round in consecutive drafts was virtually impossible prior to to new CBA rookie salary structure. That being said, I can't see a team doing it unless the only missing position is QB and in the second draft, when your turn comes up, the number one guy on your board is a QB that has fallen to you. It would be a guy impossible to pass on.

Best finish since Miami vs Boston College, what as that guys name again?

That I agree with.

I think there were some extenuating circumstances to the Dallas example. Not to nit pick but Aikman and Walsh were taken in the same year. Jimmy Johnson took Walsh in the supplemental, Walsh had played for him at the U. He was taken after Aikman. 1989 was also the year of the Herschel Walker trade, aside from the five players they got six draft picks. You can fill a lot of holes with all those extra picks. So to use two picks on QBs wasn't that big of a deal. So do you think the Bills are solid enough at all other positions that they can afford to use another first round pick on a QB?

So you are going to need to figure out how to work botulism into conversations for the next few days.

The example of Brees//Rivers or Brunell/ Johnson are both invalid. The concept of drafting QBs first round in consecutive years only works under the current CBA. If it weren't for the rookie salary structure it would be impossible. That being said, barring injury I still think it is a bad idea.

So this thread has now become about the wisdom of drafting QBs in the first round in consecutive years. As far as Brees and Rivers are concerned. The Chargers had all but given up on Brees. He had been replaced as the starter by Flutie. After acquiring Rivers, Brees had two really good years. Last of which he had been franchised. Brees was injured in the last game of 2005. San Diego couldn't afford to pay both Rivers and Brees. The rest is history. San Diego received no compensation. If they knew then what they know now, would they have acquired Rivers? I doubt it. To determine if a QB is indeed a franchise QB doesn't that require a considerable amount of playing time? How exactly does a team do that? Two QB systems do not work in the NFL. So you would have to trade the one with the greatest body of work. What if your wrong? Of course there may be a team willing to trade high picks or pick for a QB with a very limited number of games, but that organization would have to be dumb, desperate or both. Should Jacksonville have traded Brunell rather than Johnson?

The correct quote is"lighten up Francis".

"Truth is, none of those issues will be solved this weekend. There will be the usual whining about Toronto’s lack of tailgating freedom and how it damages the bacchanalian instincts of NFL fans; about how there is no atmosphere in the Rogers Centre and about how many tickets were discounted or comps. In the end, it will matter not one iota because commissioner Roger Goodell and his owners don’t give out letter grades for tailgating parties, and if partying’s that big an issue anyhow, Toronto has two words for NFL owners: Rob and Ford. End of discussion." From the Toronto Globe and Mail, funny.

This is the best post ever!

Are the college rules for OT better? They are entertaining.

I agree that defense has a say, but go back and watch the FSU, Florida game, the defense stunk. Cam Erving only played with Manuel for one year. Last year was his first as an offensive lineman. I was only using the example of Manuel's college record because Badobeelz supposition is that he is right because of objectivity, anyone that disagrees is wrong because of subjectivity.

And get your fact straight it was 11 players drafted, 7 were defense. On offense it was, Manuel, Thomson a 5'7" 192 pound running back, a project O lineman Watkins and Hopkins a kicker. One of those five of the first forty two, one was on offense.

Subjective opinion, one pick was tipped, one was on Manuel, one the receiver gave up on the route. One fumble on Manuel, one in the NFL is a penalty and a fine. You have missed the point Badol believes he is objective. My point is exclusive of just facts objectivity is impossible. You and I both watch the same game and draw different conclusions. Are you right? Am I? Only physics is objective.

Your response is based on your observations not fact. Which by definition makes it subjective. The statistic in the "bio"as you put it are the facts. This many games were won, this many bowl games, this many yards, and so on, those are the facts. You watched games , made observations and reached conclusions. My conclusions differ. Which would also make them subjective. I live in Florida and I also watched his games. I know a number of FSU fans and alumni and the majority would disagree with your conclusion. Manuel's time at FSU was spent in a rebuilding program. After Bowden's "retirement" the program had to be rebuilt. The talent around Manuel was not anywhere close to what is there today. The Oline was bad the receivers were not good and the RB were not remotely as good as the current group. Objectivity is both a metaphysical and an epistemological concept. Whether human beings can be objective is a philosophical and sociological debate that has gone on for thousands of years. I could bore everyone with examples of what was perceived as objectivity but was not. Human objectivity is an oxymoron. If you were just given the statistical facts of Manuel's career, not knowing who or what team, would you conclude that it was a successful career? You watched the games, I watched the games and we reached different conclusions. I am assuming that you as I reached your conclusion on Manuel before the draft. Does that make you objective and me subjective?

"Manuel led the Seminoles to a 12-win season for just the third time in program history and the first time since their dominant stretch in the 1990s. During his senior season, he threw for the second most yards in team history with 3,392, trailing only Chris Weinke's Heisman Trophy winning season, in which Weinke threw for 4,167 yards. Manuel went 25-6 as a starter, won the first BCS bowl for Florida State since 2000, won five out of six games against intrastate rivals Miami and Florida, and he also led the offense to its most prolific season in team history, cleanly surpassing the 1999 National Championship squad with 6,591 yards." How exactly did you objectively arrive at the conclusion that this is "far from dominant"?

In fifty years this is the first time I've heard this one. I recall that Ralph was angry with Al Davis for decades for trading an over the hill (Art Powell ), and an injured player (Tom Flores) for Lamonica. The story was that Ralph had bailed out the Raiders and then they cheated him. The $400k loan would have been to the original owner not Davis. I wonder if it had been paid back by the time that trade happened? That trade happened in 1967, after the merger. It seams to me it would have had to have been paid back.

Briging a team into the NFL named the Redblacks could be problematic.

Bruce Arians coached that team for most of the year and no offense to Chuck Pagano, but Arians may turn out to be a better head coach. Still a rookie coach and QB.