Leonidas

There is no chance in hell he averaged one sack per game over four years. He wouldn't even be in the league if that were true.

Thanks for the analysis, SJ. When I get home I'll watch it and see what I think too (I know you're all waiting with baited breath). Everything hinges on the Peters' situation, of course, but if we haven't traded him by then we should move forward as is we will have him, even if he can't agree to a new deal. There's no way he sits out the season. But I don't want to hijack this to make it yet another Peters thread. I like the analysis. True, you don't have a life...but how does that make you any different than the rest of us??

Tim, Back to the Fred Jackson thing, I have a theory on this: The Bills own him this year for $460,000. Now, they can give him bonuses for this year if they want, but that's ultimately irrelevant. By not signing him to a long-term deal, if he has another solid season and another team comes in and signs him and the FO chooses not to match, they get a 1st round pick in 2010, correct? That must be on their mind, no? It seems Jackson has zero leverage on this one. If you said two years ago the Bills would parlay two undrafted FA's into first round draft picks (Peters in '09, Jackson in '10) you'd have to be pretty happy about that. Thoughts?

My mistake. I looked at the wrong "Jim Kelly." You're right, he would have been 41. And I buy mine at the corner of Delaware and Oakland. Where do you buy yours? where are these "reports" on 12th round failure QB's from 20 years ago?? I'm totally done with this. You said Manning had 4-7 years left, and it would be wise to draft a QB now to develop. Read between the lines you moron. Because I don't give a sh--. I said "McNabb wasn't a HOF QB" and you personally attacked me. At that point I don't really give a sh-- what you say. So I proved you wrong; he is NOT a HOF QB. You substantiating the truth to me is irrelevant. You could have spared us the dissertation and said "I think it would be wise for the FO to draft a QB a few years before he's going to retire" nobody would have disagreed. Then again, it would have been as irrelevant to the board as your actual dissertation was. And your attitude sucks too. Ditch the inferiority complex. You wrote the War and Peace version of the Peyton Manning Succession Plan. Did you just think everyone would come on and bow at your feet for being such an "accomplished" writer? Give me a break. Yeah, when this is the only guy on your side that should tell you something. Going 1-5 in NFC Championship games and 0-1 in Super Bowls rarely gets you into the Hall unless you're an elite QB (Kelly was 0-4 in SB's but he was elite). That's why Brady was considered a HOF'er before he even hit 20,000 yards. Three SB's will do that for you. Writers don't care about the stats, they care about wins, leadership, and overall performance. But quite frankly, I don't care if he gets in or not. I have nothing against the guy (except his occasional unfounded whining about racism).

2001?? Jim Kelly would have been 45 years old for crying out loud! Was he rushed out at the end of '96? Yes. Could he have played a few more years? Certainly. But was his production declining? Definitely. The numbers don't lie, dude: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KellJi00.htm Are you suggesting we would have been saved by Jeff Blake or Elvis Grbac? Really? For the record, we did draft two "developmental" QB's prior to Todd Collins. Neither really panned out for us: 1986: Brian McClure, Bowling Green (12th round) 1992: Matt Rodgers, Iowa (12th round)

I assumed it was. Why are you such a dick? Should I go through the QB's who were drafted in the late rounds? Name me ONE that took 5 years to develop. Trust me when I saw I'm not arguing with you for the sake of arguing you. You wrote a disseration on Manning's retirement. Did you not want comments? How about when you call me out on my comments? Do you not expect responses? Come on, dude. There's a difference between looking for a QB in this draft and looking for a developmental prospect three years from now. I agree that maybe three years from now - depending on Manning's health - you could do something like that. But you were inferring that they should be looking for one now, which is absurd. They shouldn't be forcing Manning out the door, and drafting a QB before he turns 35 would be, on the surface at least, doing just that.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz......

hahaha, another bitter peasant Patriots fan. He wouldn't have gotten one if you hadn't given up the biggest lead in Championship game history...

What? I really think you have no idea what you're talking about. But let's analyze: You think Manning has anywhere from 4-7 years left, correct? That's pretty broad. Let's narrow it down to 5-6. When was the last time it took a QB 5-6 years to develop? The only ones that come to mind are Delhomme and Warner who spent time in NFL Europe, and in Warner's case, Arena Football. It should never take that long to develop a QB, and if it does, he's probably not worth drafting. On the contrast, let's take a look at other QB's development (straight off the top of my head, so correct me if I'm wrong). These are the years until he is a bonafide starter in the NFL: Philip Rivers: two years Eli Manning: two/three years Trent Edwards: two years (hopefully) Jamarcus Russel: never/bust Peyton Manning: immediate starter/one year Tom Brady: two years Drew Brees: three years J.P. Losman: never/bust Chad Pennington: two/three years Jay Cutler: one year Matt Cassel: two years(?) Ben Roethlisberger: immediate starter/one year Tim Couch: never/bust Carson Palmer: immediate starter/one year Aaron Rodgers: two/three years Donovan McNabb: one year Matt Ryan: immediate starter Joe Flacco: immediate starter/one year Get my point? I can't think of a player who has ever, EVER been groomed for 5-6 years. Jim Sorgi is not being groomed to be the starter. Steve Young was a starter on a horrendous Tampa Bay team before being signed by the 49ers to back up Montana before the salary cap existed. This has nothing to do with what brought Flutie/Johnson to Buffalo. Johnson had a seemingly bright future and the Bills made the move. He obviously busted. Flutie was well into his 30's when he came to Buffalo and was seen as nothing more than a stop gap. Why Donahoe shipped him out in favor of an obvious bust at that point and why we continued to struggle at the QB position had nothing to do with us not drafting a QB to supplant Kelly in 1990. If anything, the FO forced him out too early. Get your facts straight.

For once the guy is spot on. 100%. Why are you drafting someone to replace a player that far down the road??? And I like the "what does that even mean?" That could apply to the entire original post...

I don't have any idea who Bob Waterfield is, and being only 26 my knowledge of Sonny Jurgensen is from whatever I've read or seen on ESPN, etc., but did you ask me to "look at the stats and make a real opinion?" Why did you write this War & Peace version of Peyton's Manning future if you didn't want opinions? Or just ones that agree with yours? McNabb isn't a HOF QB. His accuracy has been extremely questionable at times, and he proved four years in a row not to be able to win the game BEFORE the "big" game. He is 1-5 in conference championship games and 0-1 in super bowls. On all the teams he had a phenomenal defense (with exceptional secondaries of players like Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Brian Dawkins, Sheldon Brown, Asante Samuel, and Lito Sheppard) managed by potential HOF defensive coordinator Jim Johnson. Since you told me to do my "research," I did: Cmp Att Yds TD Int Lng Y/A Cmp% Rate Att Yds Lng Y/A 2008 NFC Championship game (lost 32-25): 28 47 375 3 1 62 8.0 59.6 97.4 2 31 21 15.5 2005 Super Bowl XXIX (lost 24-21) 30 51 357 3 3 40 7.0 58.8 75.4 1 0 0 0.0 2005 NFC Championship game (won 27-10): 17 26 180 2 0 45 6.9 65.4 111.1 10 32 8 3.2 2004 NFC Championship game (lost 14-3): 10 22 100 0 3 23 4.5 45.5 19.3 2 10 7 5.0 2003 NFC Championship game (lost 27-10): 26 49 243 0 1 24 5.0 53.1 58.5 3 17 11 5.7 2002 NFC Championship game (lost 29-24): 18 30 171 1 1 17 5.7 60.0 73.1 4 26 10 6.5 2001 Division Championship (lost 20-10): 20 41 181 1 1 21 4.4 48.8 59.1 5 17 7 3.4 The 2008 NFC Championship game was a joke, too. He was terrible until the 2nd half (they were down 24-6, if you recall). He turned it on but too little, too late. He threw three picks in the Super Bowl in addition to throwing up in the huddle. Again, he tried to turn it on at the end but to no avail. In the 2005 NFC Championship game he beat a gimmicky Falcons team that had no chance of winning. Michael Vick vs. Jim Johnson? Are you serious? No contest. Look at his stats in his other "big" games. HOF'er? No thanks. And spare me the Peyton Manning argument. Peyton has set so many records it's obscene. Donovan's only record set was complaining on black quarterbacks not getting a chance in this league. Why don't YOU do your research next time.

The right end faces the team's left tackle, which is generally the more tougher tackle to face (with notable exceptions like Philly, where Runyan was a mainstay on the rightside for about a century). But I think it's overhyped - if a guy can get there from one side, he should be able to get there from the other.

This has been discussed. Nothing's growing in this economy and it's no secret they have to put tarps over their seats to declare "sellouts" (falsely). Buffalo sells out every single game. The same can't be said for Jax, Oakland, St. Louis, Atlanta, or Detroit (Arizona was on the list before they got good...finally). From ESPN.com (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/preview08/co...tory?id=3549147): Consecutive sellouts: 0 | Season-ticket waiting list: None Even with tarps covering seats to cut Jacksonville Municipal Stadium down to a more reasonable capacity, the building doesn't fill consistently enough. Three of the NFL's 10 blacked-out games last year were in Jacksonville. The team says it had the option of corporate bailouts to prevent those, but didn't accept them on principle. The city was spoiled some by the team's early success, but this piece of SEC country has not developed the hardcore loyalty to its NFL team that you find in Nashville. I'm not sure what the "new stadium" riff raff is all about. What's so important about a new stadium? Luxury boxes? How about the fact that there is nothing owed on the current one? The Red Sox cram more seats in every year to Fenway Park, if that's the issue then figure out a way to cram more seats into RSW. But I llike RSW. I like it better than going to Gillette. If they build a new stadium part of it will be financed by higher ticket prices and potentially worse views. No thanks.

Well...duh. Manning's knee is fine. He has a little bursitis that acted up at the wrong time, he'll be fine. He could play another 10 years if he wanted to, but he won't. I bet he plays anywhere from 5-8 seasons, gets a ton of records but no more SB rings, and is a first ballot HOF'er. McNabb's not a HOF'er. Not after folding in the spotlight, letting Freddie Mitchell call the plays. He's been a very good QB, but unless they're lowering the bar for the HOF he's not making it in.

To be fair, this guy would be a good fit for the Bills. High motor, but slow (ran a 4.9 in Indy: http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers?tabIndex=0) AND plead guilty to misdemeanor assault in '05 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/robert-ayers?id=71193). Why don't we start negotiating with this guy right now?? I like this the best: "Ayers lacks the elite speed to ever be a standout pass rusher"...then why is the the #3 overall prospect on the board??!?!

I was waiting for someone to say that. He's said it at least three times on this board...

Why on Earth would Green Bay want to trade a 10 sack/season guy like Kampman for a 3rd round pick??

This comes almost direct from my short semi-pro career: Leonidas.McKelvin K, WR, QB University of Connecticut Age: 26 6'0" 205 lbs. 40 yard dash: 5.1 ('07) bench (reps at 225): 0 broad jump: 7"6' ('04) - this number could be wrong, I'm just pulling from the top of my head here vertical leap: 28" ('04) - same with this number cone/shuttle: honestly I can't remember PRO Versatile, understands how the game is played. Projects as a better coach than a player. Can play WR in a pinch and has excellent hands. Not afraid to get in the trenches and block when asked, and holds his own against CB's. Kicks a decent ball. Good enough to be an emergency QB a la Troy Brown. Can throw your slants, curls, ins and quick outs, elusive enough not take sacks. Good speed for a QB and can use his legs to make plays. Has the ability to recognize defenses and has the potential to learn more. Not afraid to call audibles at the line of scrimmage. CON Kicks barefoot. Seriously. Accuracy a concern and can get rattled after a miss. Distance maxes out at about 45 yards on a good day. Durability a serious concern with ACL surgery in '97, liver laceration surgery in '06 (like Bo Scaife), spine surgery in '08 (like Josh Reed). When playing WR will get overpowered - and generally flattened - when trying to block LB's with any sort of momentum. Routes are not crisp enough, does not have the speed to get deep or beat DB's one-on-one. Should only play QB in an emergency - does not have the arm strength to get the ball down the field more than 40 yards. Tends to be skittish in the pocket and frequently does not go through all his progressions. SUMMARY UDFA. If he makes a camp he will certainly hold out to be the highest paid player at his position, regardless of his actual skill. He will promptly be put on the PUP list and never heard from again.

I do not respect those !@#$s over at Stubhub. Worst customer service ever...

This is the best Peters thread in a long time. And considering the seemingly never-ending threads on this, that's saying something. And harami, you want to tone down that signature at all? Is having is in 84 type font really necessary? We get it, you really like T.O...

...but wasn't there a thread on this? Oh yeah, http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?showtopic=86983

What the hell is an "indiser"?? I still have Tecmo Bowl. Want to play? I'll put $1000 on it. pwned

Yes, the fridge is on the left. You must have seen me on my webcam during my "this is how you piss off people on a message board" hour. Damn you and your spying!

If you can definitely get a guy 10-15 spots later then drafting him at your spot makes him a reach, yes. This partially depends on how much you need the guy. If you are a DE away from the playoffs and you reach a little for *the* guy rather than just grab him, that's not a reach. If you have many needs to fill (say, Buffalo in 2006) and you reach for a guy who probably would have been around 10 picks later (if Whitner would have been - I don't remember) then yes, it's a reach. Being a reach partially depends on his pro career as well. Dwight Freeney was called a reach at #11, although the Colts *really* wanted him and didn't want to risk losing him. How did that work out? In the same draft (2002), Levi Jones (OT, Cincinnatti) was called a reach at #10. He had a good career until the injury bug bit him. Now it looks like the Bungles will be upgrading that position. On the flip side, Aaron Rodgers was a great "value" at #25, but if he came in and flunked who would have agreed with that after the fact? KnockOut30 said that Maybin had great "value" in the second round, but if he falls on his face is that accurate? I don't think so. Was Whitner a reach at #8? In retrospect, maybe. Let's see what he does this year at FS (unless he's in prison, of course). I'm sure they wanted Huff more, but that didn't really work out for Oakland.

What is "frastrated"? I have mirrors everywhere. It's a house of mirrors. It used to be a house of cards but it collapsed.