Alphadawg7

Well if you had said this below originally, then we could have had a real convo. But originally, you just did the normal snarky thing of which I was referring to. What I said was that Hollins seems set to be more involved than a typical WR4 has been here in the past. Of course we don't know for sure what his role is, but it is based on what they have been saying. And I said that because they have talked up him as a blocker and being someone who can do a lot of the dirty work they lost with Davis departure. So they have at least spoken about Hollins as if they have real plans for him to be involved more than a WR4 has been in the past. But, I do not think he is higher on the "receivers" list by any means than Keon when it comes to real targets in real games. Sure, is it possible in a single game Hollins could get more targets...sure, he could be getting overlooked and getting easy looks we take advantage of. I mean McKenzie had 11 catches one game and he sucks. End of season, unless injuries come into play, I do not think Hollins is going to finish any higher than 5th in targets (Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, Keon) and may even finish behind one of the RB's too and end up 6th To answer your question, Coleman. This is still an offense helmed by Josh Allen, we are not turning into a ground and pound team where blocking is going to take precedence over a players ability as a pass catcher. And Beane made it a point to mention they felt Keon was the best blocker of all the WR's in the draft as well, so as Keon gets more comfortable out there and proves he can carry that over into the NFL, it will mean there is less need to take him off the field for Hollins blocking unless they want to get him some rest of something. I will ask you the same question I just asked Kirby. What WR was available at 28, 32, or 33 that had a better camp than Keon to the point it would have changed the coaches stance on Hollins and eliminated any possibility that Hollins will have a role on this team? His point has been entirely based on the fact that Hollins is even in the mix it makes Keon a "failure of a pick" when the reality is it likely wouldn't be any different right now no matter which WR we drafted at 33...or 28/32 either.

No disrespect...but the most interesting thing to me is that you don't seem to even understand the root of your own Keon is a "failure of a pick" argument doesn't really have anything to do with Keon. You are making it about Keon because he also was not "your guy" in the draft, so it provides some easy to reach confirmation bias, which is understandable. But, what it is clearly really about that you have not gotten your mind to accept that the coaches actually seem to like and have some perceived plans for Hollins, and that wouldn't likely be much different no matter who we took at 28, 32, or 33. And because of that, you are now translating and projecting that to mean everything about Keon is a "failure" of a pick because your opinion is so different than the coaches on Hollins that you have decided that the only way Hollins can be in the mix for snaps is if Keon is a "failure" and behind where he should be. If you still don't see that, then try this: Name a WR that was available at 28, 32, or 33 that the Bills could have taken that: Definitively had a better camp than Keon, so much so he would have a higher standing and bigger role right now with the Bills coaches than Keon currently has. Would have eliminated Hollins completely from the coaches plans to where right now today Hollins would not be in the mix for anything other than a role similar to say Kumerows where it was mostly about ST. If you can't identify a WR that the Bills "should" have taken at 28, 32, or 33 that has had a better camp than Keon to the point the coaches wouldn't have Hollins in the mix for snaps then your entire "Keon is a failure" argument is the actual failure here. And the reality is, as hard as it is for you to accept, that Hollins being in the mix has more to do with the coaches than anything Keon is "failing" to do. NOTE: Here is the most ironic part of all this...What they have spoken the most highly about with Hollins is his blocking ability and size, so for a WR to really keep Hollins off the field more, then size and blocking is going to have to be present with said prospect. And Keon we know has size and was also by many, including Beane and our staff, to be the best blocker of all the WR's in the draft. Meaning of all the WR's available to us at our picks, Keon's game is the one that has a better chance to reduce Hollins primary value more than anyone.

Agree, I drafted him all 3 of my leagues

You need a new schtick cuz you aren’t good at this one.

That’s not as fun though ha

Nah I heard here Brady sucks because of Carolina. That’s forever his legacy and offense only.

But but but the cap isn’t real 😂

Not gonna lie, that was my previous stance as well and came into camp thinking he was a bubble player at best. But, being fair to Hamlin, he reportedly had a strong camp. I still do not expect him to keep the starting spot and this is probably more a function of Edward’s and Bishop injuries, but I am at least encouraged by his camp. I’m still not convinced he’s turned a corner until I see it in real games, but at least I feel better about him being out there than I did say at the start of camp.

I would bet money that won’t be the depth chart Sunday.

On above: Don’t worry about it, I’m not taking it personal or that you’re picking specifically on me, you haven’t been disrespectful. We just have very different opinions, and hope you’re not taking it as anything other than that too. But honestly, you might be the only person I’ve ever seen melt down this much about a guy (Hollins) slated to be at best the 5th or 6th targeted player on an offense. So how about a friendly wager to make it fun? 2 bets: 1 - Keon will finish with more targets than Hollins. 2 - Hollins won’t finish higher than 5th in targets. Pick a friendly amount and I’m down. Although I seriously doubt you take this bet because you are smart enough to know that it’s completely ludicrous to even suggest Hollins will be ahead of Keon this year as a receiver despite all your wasted energy on the matter. But hey, I’m down if you really do believe he is.

The scub as you put it, is essentially WR4 (Shakir, Samuel, Keon), and really WR5 when you factor in Kincaid. I can tell you without a doubt, Hollins is as good or even a lot better than many teams 4th and 5th receivers. Kincaid, Shakir, Samuel, and even Keon are 100% going to get more targets than Hollins, without a doubt. Our RB's will likely account for 100 targets themselves, which will really make Hollins maybe even WR6 on the target list by years end. So you are losing it over a guy who is almost guaranteed (barring injuries) to be at best the 5th target on this team, maybe less. And Hollins isn't the scrub you make him out to be. He is no world beater, but he has value. especially given we are talking about a guy who won't be higher than 5th or 6th in targets. Again, there is nothing that says he is behind Hollins anyway. ESPN and CBS show Keon as the starter. We don't really know because we have not played any games yet. And who "starts" means nothing...its who is playing more snaps and who is getting more targets that matter on the field. Ok, lets look at this over dramatic paragraph here...and I mean no disrespect to you, but this is quite the dramatic response about us "trading back". There were ONLY 3 guys we could have taken besides Keon that went before our pick...NONE are starting outside WR's going into week 1, and NONE have had any where close to as good of a camp as Keon has had. Worthy - Struggling with press coverage, and didn't have a strong camp where he also got dinged up early with his small frame. Pearsall - Not starting, and was not having a standout camp and one of the reasons why SF caved and gave more to keep Aiyuk. Leggette - Not starting and didn't have a good camp where he himself literally stated "I wish I studied the playbook more" as he was struggling in camp and also digned up. Thats it. So for all your dramatic "we traded down" rants, that was all we "missed out one" by trading back, and clearly they didn't value any of them or they would have taken them when they had the chance. Keon without a doubt has had the better camp of any of them and one of the best camps of any WR in this class. And what I bolded above...that is false. That is you projecting your negative bias to him, the reports on Coleman have been predominantly glowing all camp long. There have been no credible reports about any struggles by him other than normal rookie stuff, and even then he has excelled for the most part.

I think that is also nothing to make too much of. McD has handled all rookies the same, unless there was a dire need for them to "start" out the gate, they often split time with Vets. And with Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel, its probably more a technicality more than anything. Also, ESPN shows Keon is starting on the depth chart as does CBS...which also doesn't mean much either. And there is no reason to expect a WR taken in the back half of the first round, early 2nd round should automatically be starting either on week 1. And the one constant all of camp was that Keon took 100% of his snaps with the starters, so they clearly feel he is ready to play relevant snaps no matter who is designated the "starter" week 1. I mean Hollins could start the first play of the game and then sit out 10 straight plays. its a pretty insignificant designation right now and will be more interested in seeing how the snap counts end up and target shares end up. And again, ESPN shows him ahead of Hollins too. I think we just need to wait and see Sunday and we will see where everything is at. https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/depth/_/name/buf/buffalo-bills But to be clear, as I have always said, I do believe Hollins will play more than people think this year. They love his blocking and leadership and he is a credible receiver as well. I think his role will be bigger than previous WR4 type roles in the past.

Not a surprise to me really, I think they want to try and manage his wear and tear as he tries to get back to his best and keep him as fresh as can be for end of season and playoff run.

Still wouldn't make much of it...early on its going to be a lot more about packages more so than starters in this everybody eats philosophy. I suspect Kincaid and Shakir are going to be leading the way in terms of targets and snaps with the others rotated around, including Samuel with some snaps out of the backfield too.

Lol...come on. You are talking about a team helmed by Teddy Bridgewater, and you want to draw conclusions about that in regards to an offense led by Josh Allen? Like you really think its going to be the same offense? You think Brady just copy and pasted the same playbook and just said here Allen, this is what we are running, same as I ran with Bridgewater? The season can't start soon enough.

6-1 actually with Brady and the SOS was definitely harder under Brady. In fact, Dorsey had 7 duds in his 10 games, went 2-5 in those games and was lucky not to lose the other 2 on the final play of the game where both Giants and Bucs blew the game on the final play. And the win % of the opponents in those games were a paltry .436% where Brady's SOS was over .500

Now…but this thread is from April 4th right after Diggs was traded

I did…my post is from April 4th…that article is from yesterday 😄 And I posted about him and his potential last season too before he broke out.

Hahaha LFG!

Yet you spent all last offseason and even during the season trying to convince me Shakir can’t catch. Earlier this offseason you kept trying to downplay Shakir as well. LMAO…love how you try and spin your stance now though like you weren’t throwing shade at him the past 2 years. And I find it hilarious you want to pretend now everyone has been as high on Shakir as I have not only now but the past 2 seasons. Was I the only one, certainly not, but the majority saw him as a role player at best or some meh player until recently.

I don’t disagree with any of this, but yardage is a direct math equation where targets is a key component of said equation. So all I was saying is if he does get into that 110-120 target range or higher 1200* yards becomes a realistic yardage total. But, what you said I agree with is exactly what comes into play on determining where that target total lands this year.

No, once again totally incorrect like every other time you have quoted me on this. This one is even more perplexing because we have literally discussed this exact range misquote maybe 2 dozen times, including in direct messaging. I have repeatedly told you 900-1100 yards was my range but you always like to exaggerate it incorrectly. Agreed, except that wasn't my range. Which again, was not my range, that is your incorrect recollection. Where he ends up will come down to just how much they stick to "everybody eats" this season. Now can he get to 1200+ Yards? Sure, I think he could if he ends up commanding say 110-120+ targets. But I do still think Kincaid is getting over 100 targets for sure, and also that Keon will get a healthy share of targets as well as Samuel and the RB's combined. So that is why my prediction was 900-1100 yards even though I sit here currently very confident he breaks 1000 yards.

Yeah but I’ve never once stated he will repeat his YPT efficiency, I was highlighting just how efficient he was last year. It’s common sense with more volume it will come down some. I do think he will lead the team in yards receiving while also competing with Kincaid for most receptions.

Thanks, and I see your location is Sacramento...my wife and I are leaving the beach in LA to move somewhere around Roseville, Granite Bay, Rocklin, Folsom, etc. Our 2nd baby is due in October, so not gonna move until sometime between Dec and Feb, but you will have to let me know if there are any Bills bars in the area

I agree and it’s what I meant by not winning in the trenches. When teams have beaten Mahomes in the postseason it’s because they have gotten to him, and that just isn’t something we have been able to do much of at all in the playoffs against Mahomes. I will say I strongly believe had Bernard and/or Milano been able to play this year we probably win that game. KC feasted attacking our depleted LB group and still was a close game.