Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Why is no one talking about Fitz in this race? Well the answer is simple...because no one wants him to win it. The reason is simple:
Brohm: Is unknown and was a highly regarded prospect...he offers at least potential to be a franchise guy.
Trent: Gaileys ability to get a lot put of less in terms of QB's still provides some hope Trent can develop into a quality starter under him...
Fitz: Not seen as a guy with the potential to be a long term answer by hardly anyone.
If Brohm wins, we suddenly have a young prospect with potential to shore up our QB woes...if Trent wins, well many will see it as one last shot for him to develop into a long term guy. Now if Fitz wins, that means our two best shots at a long term answer both couldnt get it done and we have to endure a seat warmer in Fitz until we find our guy next year.
So, Fitz offer little to no hope while the others do to some degree still...so no one wants Fitz to win because we are screwed if he does. We may be screwed no matter who wins, but at least the other provide some hope to a lot of fans...
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The point I was trying to make to WEO (and it can apply to any posters who bashed Hardy and Lynch and are defending Vick, or "setting the record straight" as the case may be) is that he didn't apply the same standard to Hardy or Lynch, despite lack of evidence in their cases. And neither did anything remotely close to what Vick did. Yet he went out of his way to fabricate fantastic scenarios as to why there was no evidence, while he went out of his way to defend Vick (and if you know WEO, if he doesn't care, he won't respond).
Gotcha...
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasnt the evidence against Lynch and Hardy indisputable and admitted by both? I could be wrong about that, but if memory serves me Hardy owned up to what happened and so did Lynch about the gun. I honestly didnt follow it closely...
And I am defintely not trying to make excuses for this fool Vick...like I said before, he has served his time and had time to reflect on his mistakes. For me to label him a habitual criminal I need to see those old habits return. Most of what he did in the past wasnt criminal, and what was criminal was also an accepted sport in his cultural upbringing. I am not supporting dog fighting, but I do also understand if you are raised to accept it that it can look very different in his eyes.
Again, its not like he was out conducting himself as a criminal. Poor decisions...YES...habitual criminal...not so much. Now if he regresses back to criminal activity during his second chance, then I will reconsider that opinnion. But as of now, he has done nothing wrong, and if you read the more recent reports, he showed great restraint and did the right thing walking away. So if anything, he has shown just the opposite.
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No, just pointing out the obvious misstatements in that post.
You can revise history at your leisure--it works for you, doc.
Everyone else can see that I am no supporter of Vick. He's a crappy passer and a punk.
Im with you...dont like the dude on or off the field...but that doesnt make him a habitual criminal
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Trent Edwards stats in his first regular season game:
10-20 97 yards 0 td 1 INT 1 sack QB rating 43.1, the Bills lost 38-7
Needless to say Trent had a full training camp and played in all 4 preseason games prior to appearing in his first regular season game.
Thats too many facts for him to process...
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Habitual implies criminal activity being a common occurrence. There's always going to be an argument as to what "common" means--it's a very elastic word. He's habitually in trouble with the law, he's habitually a "person of interest" in criminal cases....unfortunately he's also habitually rich enough to buy himself out of trouble. For my money a sure sign of Vick being a habitual criminal is the varied amount of offenses. It's not like Big Ben's annual rape trial (which is it's own habitual little problem), Vick has issues with drugs, sex, gambling and violence. That signifies a deeply troubled mindset. It's a borderline sociopathic (not really a word, but whatever) worldview that will end with this guy doing more jail time at some point in the future.
I hear ya and dont see anything wrong with what you are saying...for me though its that I have seen people worse than this guy make 180's after going through what he went through and getting a wake up call to just how destructive their behavior was and how many poor choices they made. For someone to be habitual to me would be someone who continues to go back to those ways...and until some information comes out indicating he has, I am not just personally prepared to label him a habitual criminal.
I still cant stand the guy though...but I just choose to seperate that from the discussion and look at only what is known...and right now, nothing is known to have occured to implicate him in anything yet. Like I said though, if it turns out he was involved, then drop the hammer on this guy and I would agree he is habitual.
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I wouldn't say Brohm is unproven, he started last year against Atlanta when Fitz and Edwards were injured. Now if I'm not mistaken Atlanta had one of the worst secondary's at the time and had some players injured.
17-29 -146 yards 2 INT's 2 sacks, the Bills lost 31-3
Needless to say with Fitz still nursing an injury they started him over Brohm in the next game, kinda says something to me.
LMAO...only you would use a single game to define a kids ability and completely IGNORE the very extreme circumstances he played under that I doubt there any QB in the NFL could have succeeded with in the exact same situation.
1. He was just acquired by our team and was still trying to learn a completely new system.
2. No NFL experience
3. A week to actually practice for the first time with a brand new time.
4. No timing of any kind with any player on the offense as he was brand new.
5. A decimated O Line...something you use for an excuse for Trent by the way.
6. Awful offensive game plan and terrible offensive coaching to prepare him to play in just one week...another excuse you use for Trent
The best part is that you make excuses for Trent being putrid based on a lot of the same things above, yet you dont do it for Brohm and just assume he is terrible because he was thrown into an impossible situation that just about any QB would have failed in.
Brohm was NO WHERE CLOSE to being ready to play for this team as he didnt even have the terrible system down yet. More importantly, the Team flat out said they had not intention of any kind of putting him on the field last year right wehn they acquired him...the only reason they did was because of injuries.
If you understood football you would understand that QB is the most complicated position of any sport to play and that you dont get ready to play (essentially as a rookie) in one week of practicing with the team, especially when you have never played a game in the NFL...
Not to mention the new HC was literally auditioning to keep the job, so he is going to put the guy out there more ready to play which isnt the guy who doesnt know the system, has no NFL experience, and has barely even practiced with the team.
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A list I found online regarding Vick's record with the police:
# Weed/marijuana hidden in the bottom of a water bottle at the Miami airport.
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Drug raids at a house he owned (which lead to fed finding a... )
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Dog fighting ring and animal cruelty towards 60 dogs in a house he owned.
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Settled a lawsuit filed by a former girlfriend who said he knowingly gave her a sexually transmitted disease.
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Vick surrounded himself with unsavory associates, two with criminal records for drug trafficking.
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Two friends of Vick pocketed someone's fancy watch at the Atlanta airport, the watch's owner said a Falcons executive offered him money to keep Vick's name out of a police report.
add of course last this latest nonsense. Seems pretty habitual to me.
I already said I dont like the guy...and I know his rap sheet...but this was before he was imprisoned and given a chance to rehabilitate himself and make changes in his life...all I am saying is that until he has been shown to have done something wrong now that he has served his time and been given a second chance to learn from his past then I think its extreme to call him habitual...
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Vick's a habitual criminal...not that far a leap to think he was doing something he legally wasn't allowed to do
Habitual criminal? Seems a bit extreme to label him that. Honestly, I cant stand Vick personally, and I am not about to make excuses for him and actually hate what he did. However, habitual criminal is a bit extreme. He has not done one thing since his release from prison that shows him to be a "habitual criminal"...
I get people hate what he did, and so do I, but I also don't think it qualifies him as a habitual criminal, especially given how accepted it was in his cultural upbringing.
I guess because I have seen so many people make 180's in their life (and many worse than Vick) and have been part of some of those transformations through some volunteer work I do that I prefer to have all the information before I make my assumptions on people or label them.
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Considering the offensive limitations Edwards had to endure in the Jaron regime is it any wonder guys like you focus on just the QB.
Your boy Brohm will get his chance to prove he is better then Edwards this training camp
Lets look at your QB evaluation skills: Quotes by you:
Edwards when properly protected and given a decent game plan has shown to be remarkably effective and heads above the rest.If Joe Montana had played for Detroit or the Cardinals in the 80's the guy would have become just another obscure has-been.LMAO...only on this board can someone refer to Trent ever being remarkably effective at anything and also have the same person refer to Montana as someone that would have been a obscure has been on a bad team despite being drafted by a franchise that was the Clippers of their day and perennial losers who had just won a measly 2 games.
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Exactly. Brohm took the lazy-boy route in GB and look where it landed him.
Edwards is smart enough to have his nose firmly planted up his coach's plumber's crack.
Fitz never was viewed as a potential starter by anyone other than his parents and family.
Why would Chan anoint any one of these now?
If it wasn't Brohm - he'd be spending his time till training camp in strip clubs and playing xBox.
If it wasn't Edwards - he'd be sending Harry and David Tower of Treats and Omaha Steaks packages to Chan's house daily.
If it wasn't Fitz - he'd be demotivated and would stop working on his accuracy.
Why would Chan remove the incentive from these three to go home and study, keep in shape and continue individually practicing to perfect their craft? The guy that shows the most incentive by doing those things will have the greatest dividends when they strap on the pads in five weeks.
Where are you getting your information in regards to Brohm? You think because he didnt adjust to the speed of the NFL faster than Flynn that he took the lazy-boy router? Reports from GB was that he was a major student of the game and they even said he picked up the play book faster than any player they had ever seen. His issue wasnt a bad attitude, it was a first year QB stuggling to adjust to the speed of the game and falling behind because of it with the emergence of Rodgers and Flynn.
Here is a quote from an article talking about it too:
Because then, Brohm’s strengths take over. Diving into a playbook. Learning the nuances of a scheme. Memorizing audibles. Knowing which on-the-line checks to make and when. Brohm is a self-diagnosed “football junkie.” Laughing, he admits that he rarely escapes the game. Green Bay’s Mike McCarthy once said Brohm picked up his offspring of the West Coast offense faster than anyone he’s ever had.
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I like when people make incredible logical leaps that their 'friend' is just like someone else.
You mean just like the people who make "incredible logical leaps" that because alcohol is served there he must have been drinking it? Or the ones making "incredible logical leaps", despite no reports actually implicating him in any reinstatement violations or broken laws, that he must be guilty essemtially because he is M. Vick...
The funniest thing about your response is that it was the exact reason why I wrote what I wrote about my friend yet you somehow missed that point.
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No decision, means to me, we have 3 equal mediocre numbnuts.
You can't tell me you wouldn't know by now, who the man you're going with is.
You've got tape, and eyeballed them all, and have talked to them all.
If no one is standing out now, COME ON!
lol...maybe you should read the reports first before you post something like this. Chan already said he has the pecking order in his head, however, that can still change and that no one is out of the running.
Secondly, just because he hasnt named one doesnt mean its because they suck. Did you ever stop and think that more than 1 QB has shown improvement in his system as the are LEARNING his new system. I mean, you just assume its because they all have stunk, yet the reports have shown that the QB's have had some good days and shown improvement.
I mean the whole team is learning a new system to boot...its not a quick process, nor does it need to be. And I dont care who they name as the #1 guy as it means nothing because the real QB competition isnt going to take shape until we get some preseason games under our belt.
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The thing that was so great about Montana is that he could move the chains and get first down after first down with that short controlled passing game. Dwight Clark was so instrumental in those first few years as the possession receiver, kinda like what Tom Brady has now with Wes Welker.
That "go to" possession receiver for the Bills the last few years has been Josh Reed, I doubt the Bills will miss him.
Why do you continue to talk about an era, a team, and players you didnt watch play as if you know something about them? Dwight Clark and Welker were not the same player and were not being used the same in their respective offenses...on what grounds do you compare them? Is it because they are both white you assume they were a similar player?
I just find it hysterical that you continue to chime in on something that you actually have no knowledge on...keep googling sir, maybe you can find a theory that actually makes sense one of these times.
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Edwards when properly protected and given a decent game plan has shown to be remarkably effective and heads above the rest, the problem is the new regime didn't fix the line, so even if he wins the starting job...he loses.
Trent was remarkably effective? When? He has never been that, even in our 4-0 start he had average to below average games and they were against literally some of the worst teams and defenses in the NFL. He hasnt had a winning season at any point since high school, has thrown just once for 300 yards since high school (and it was in his 2nd to last year at Stanford), etc etc...so I just want to know what he has ever done where you could actually use the word remarkable with a straight face...
Then again, you are also the same guy who argues that Joe Montana wasnt that good while admitting to barely seeing him play during his career.
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I think if alcohol was available that is a violation with the NFL.
Again, there are no current reports of him drinking...its not against his conditions to be in a place that serves alcohol otherwise he would be banned from just about any restaurant there is. Again, at this point in time there are no known violations.
A good friend of mine got a DUI and swore off drinking when he drives somewhere, not even a single beer kind of thing. And this is a guy who really enjoys to have a drink with his friends...to this day, I have never seen him ever violate that despite being around people drinking it up when he has had to drive there. Why...because he has a lot to lose if he drinks and gets pulled over and its not worth it...doesnt keep him from watching football with us at the bar when he has driven there despite others drinking.
So, just because he was there does not mean he was drinking...so again, at this point, from what is known, there have been no broken conditions of his reinstatement nor any laws. If he did break something, then throw the book at him, but in this country you are innocent until proven guilty and many of you guys are declaring him guilty depsite not a single report of any actual violations of his reinstatement or any broken laws.
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Actually, yes. Not with the law but with the league. He violated the conditions of his reinstatement to the NFL.
Incorrect sir...he actually didnt violate a single condition of his reinstatement unless he can be linked to the shooting. Having a party was not something that violated his conditions...getting in an argument doesnt violate his conditions. Now, if further info comes out further implicating him in the events leading to the shooting, then yes, he has an issue. But all that is confirmed now is that Vick argued with him, then allegedly left, and this guy had further altercations leading to a shooting.
So as of now (and I am not saying Vick is innocent, I dont even like him), there isnt enough info available to say he violated any conditons or laws. So its a wait and see until further details are known.
If he's guilty, throw the book at him...but there is nothing known right now that implicates him in any actual wrong doing other than an argument with someone who showed up at his party that wasnt supposed to be there.
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No one knows what happened or the events that led up to the whole situation except the parties involved and God. I'm not saying Vick shot anyone, I'm not saying he put the hit out on the guy, I'm not saying the guy was intentionally trying to set Vick up, I'm not saying anything except WHY PUT YOURSELF IN A ENVIRONMENT CONDUCIVE TO DRAMA WHEN YOU ARE ON A SHROT LEASH IN LIFE? He couold've celebrated his birthday a different, more private way. This guy continues to make bad decisions and put himself in a position to fail.
He didnt put himself in a place for drama. He had a private party at a club and this guy showed up. If he would have been at freaking Dennys with his friends for his 30th birthday this guy would have showed up. So, what do you want him to do? Forget his 30th birthday and lock himself in his house? That is completely unreasonable. Its his 30th birthday, he should be able to celebrate it out with his friends...you only turn 30 once. Its not like this guy was out creating some trouble or being a problem.
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PigBen was never arrested or charged with anything either. Yet King Roger did not let that whole silly innocent until proven guilty thing stop him then and he probably won't now either.
No, not true at all. Big Ben was not charged with his sexual crime...HOWEVER, he was, and admittedly so, hanging around under age drinkers yet again after he was warned the last time this happened. That is why he was suspended, for putting himself in an inappropriate situation with illegal under age drinking yet AGAIN.
A birthday party in a club is not an illegal act of any kind, nor is it a banned activity for the athletes. Having does not violate any laws or any NFL rules...thats a MASSIVE difference.
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I don't think people are saying he is the shooter. At least that isn't what was I was thinking. I was thinking Vick was with bad people he wasn't supposed to be talking to and he was around a shooting, which to me is pretty serious. They went after big ben for being around underage drinking.
In the adult world, these things are not hard to avoid. Especially the shooting part.
Big difference...under age drinking is illlegal...having a birthday party with your friends in a night club is NOT illegal and most athletes in every sport do this every day without altercation.
Vick can not control who shows up to a public place...so, is he just supposed to lock himself in his house until his NFL career is over because he doesnt want to bump into one of these guys he cant be around when he is out at the grocery store, dinner, lunch, workout, whatever?
More importantly, this guy intently showed up at Vicks birthday party...that pretty much tells you that he would have shown up even if it was at Chuck E Cheese...its not the location where they ran into each other, it was the event. So I guess you dont think Vick should celebrate his 30th birthday with his friends either.
I mean this is just getting a little bit rediculous. I cant stand Vick and even I think this a load of crap at this point. If more info comes out linking him to the shooting, then drop the hammer. But right now, there is nothing on him for any wrong doing other than getting pissed (and I would too) that someone he isnt supposed to be around showed up.
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...tion-with-vick/
Will this guy ever learn?
edit: This just may bring down the hammer from Goodell. Vick may have just kissed his NFL career goodbye.
Hold on here...none of this at all implicates Vick in anything. I dont even like the guy but this is stretching unknown info to lynch the guy.
1. He is NOT supposed to be associating with people from the case and then this bozo shows up at his party. I would flip out on the dude and tell him to get the F out of there too because he is messing with my life.
2. He at this point is not being reported to have even been at the shooting or involved in the shooting.
So, at this point, Vick has done nothing wrong or anything punishable by Goodel. So until something else comes out linking him to the actual shooting, he really hasnt done a single thing to warrant punishment.
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http://www.buffalorumblings.com/
I said before that Evans is one of the best #2 WR's in the league, but doesn't rank in the Top 20 of #1 WR's. Hopefully, those numbers for the Bills go up this year.
I hope I dont have to explain the difference between NFL talent and fantasy football value...then again, with this board I probably do.
Talent wise, Evans ranks much higher than 33...get him a QB and he produces top 15 at least.
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There may only be one thread but there are many replies mentioning Whitehurst. I saw his name brought up all the time when I was begging for Jason Campbell or Troy Smith. Just take a look at an QB ranking whether fantasy or other wise. Jason Campbell is rated WAY WAY above any Buffalo QB. In spite of this people still ran him down saying he was no better than what we have AND HE PLAYS ON AN EVEN WORSE TEAM!!!!!!
I'm not making guarantees but if people couldn't see that Campbell was potentially a pretty significant upgrade over what we already have they are morons.
Campbell > Trent
Campbell > Fitz
But we dont know if Campbell is better than Brohm because he is essentially a rookie in terms of playing time.
Yes, JC is better than Trent and Fitz given what they have shown on the field, but that doesnt make JC the best choice for our long term answer. He has been average at best and I dont know that his cieling is much higher than that. His big knocks have been that he iisnt a good decision maker and hasnt been able to get it done when it matters.
I would not have been upset if we grabbed him for what Oak gave up for him, but I also wasnt dissapointed either. Its pretty clear that the FO thinks enough of Brohms potential to give him a shot first and also feel that Trent was put in a position to fail and would like to see if he can put it together under the new regime before they officially pull the plug on him too. If they really thought Campbell could be a franchise QB they would have grabbed him given how cheap they could have gotten him for.
Most importantly though, they also know next years QB crop is deep, so if there was ever a year to see if Brohm or Trent can develop under Chan, this is it. If they dont step up, we will have a good shot at a top QB prospect next year or can look to acquire one in FA or via trade.
I think the FO got this one right...see what we truly got with a real offensive game plan rather than go out and get a guy like Campbell who seems more destined to be a middle of the road kind of guy.
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I agree. Unless a proven solid starter becomes available I can't see Buffalo picking anyone else up. IMO, Edwards and Brown are locks to make the team.That leaves Fitz and Brohm fighting for a job. I think the Bills might be able to trade one of those guys for a seventh rounder.
There is no one that will come available that will be worth picking up before training camp. Why people are even speculating that in this thread is puzzling. The FO has been crystal clear that they like the potential of some of our guys with Chan here and want to see what they can do first. So I agree with you mostly on that part...
But, how can you say Brown is a "lock" to make the team when he is by far the most likely candidate to be put on the PS of the 4 QB's? Right now, its pretty clear that Brohm and Trent are battling for the #1 spot more so than Fitz really is. In fact, about the only QB who is a lock to make the active roster is Brohm because he is a guy with a lot of upside that has been making good strides and improving. Even if he doesnt get named the week 1 starter, they are not going to just abandon trying to develop him.
Fitz is in the most danger because he really is limited as a QB and is paid the most. Trent isnt a lock either because if Brohm wins the #1 job he may very well be the guy cut to show Brohm they are behind him and dont want any QB controversies as he starts his career.
So, as I see it, Brohm is the closest thing to a lock to make the team (because of his potential) unless he comes out in training camp and is atrocious in camp and preseason, which doesnt seem likely as he has been improving and showing signs of his potential thus far.
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Forget Masoli, I'll tell you who we may see in blue pretty soon. Troy Smith. Baltimore just signed Marc Bulger to a 1 year $3.8 million deal, according to ESPN. That clears the way for Smith to get out of town like he's wanted for awhile now. And he'll certainly look our way if he does become free.
He'd be the favorite to take over Chan's O in my opinion. And he'd probably come cheaper than Fitzpatrick or at least in the same ballpark. Lee could finally see an accurate deep ball again. And this guy's actually avoided a pass rush in the past, which is interesting...
Cheers
We have already got 4 developmental QB's...why would we add a 5th before we have figured out how these guys can do in his offense?
Nobody Talks About Fitz in this race, why not?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
First off, I am not saying Fitz cant be servicable...I was just simply stating why no one is pulling for Fitz.
Secondly, I would MUCH rather go with a young guy like Brohm if he can win the job than Fitz...and you should too. Because if we dont, then you are just going to have to watch a "snot nosed" rookie QB next year because I can pretty much say that if Fitz wins we will be drafting a QB next season. At least if Brohm wins, he provides the potential to step up and be a long term answer...and if he does, then we wont need to go QB early next year and can add more pieces elsewhere.
So, Fitz represents a lost year of not having a starter caliber QB if he wins just to find us trying to groom a young guy next year or enduring a partial year of crappy QB from someone like Fitz before the rookie takes over.
PS: What I am tired of watching is putrid QB play from players that are not going to be the QB of this team long term...