Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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1 hour ago, boyst said:
I'm aware of the schedule but on to where why you would wait until after the buy to put someone on injured reserve.
Because they don't know for how fast his recovery is going to be. They get a free week here to let him recover and see how its responding. If it starts look like its week to week and may only miss a game or two they wont need to use IR. If its not progressing enough to where its probable he will miss more extended time, then IR will come into place.
This is pretty standard for all teams, they had a bye week where no roster decision was needed to be made yet to give him time in treatment to get a better prognosis on how he is responding to the treatment.
No disrespect, but literally no team is going to prematurely IR someone keeping them out a min of 4 weeks if they have a free week to see if treatment can result in him coming back sooner, especially with his type of injury. This textbook and the right decision by the Bills
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3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:
So with all the trade rumors, Jaylen Waddle posts a pic on Twitter of him standing in front of a Bills logo.
3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:Click to open in new tab works
2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:
This happened like a week ago, this is just someone regurgitating the same non story it was when it happened. It wasn’t him posting this cryptic tweet, it was one of several photos in an album.-
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1 hour ago, FireChans said:
Just to be clear, I am arguing that we were super thin in 2022 and 2023.
And so those offseasons were perfect to add depth pieces that may have been ready to be contributors in 2024 and 2025. Just like we have done for LB and DL and DE and CB for their entire tenure.
They won’t do that for WR. And because they won’t, they are forced to pay guys like Samuel and Palmer nearly $20M total to fill holes.
Do I think Beane could have drafted 1-2 WRs that wouldn’t have made it necessary to throw money at Samuel and Palmer? Yes.
Do I think having 1-2 other rookie contract WRs and saving on Palmer and Samuel may have made a Pickens acquisition more feasible? Yes.
Thats why I believe it’s a compounding problem
Thanks for clarifying. But no disrespect, I don't know I would start nit picking the 2022 draft that saw us take Cook in the 2nd, Bernard in the 3rd, Shakir in the 5th, Araiza in the 5th (didn't work out, but he was worthy of the pick), Benford in the 6th.
2023 we used almost the whole draft on offense, including 1st, 4th, and 5th on pass catchers and our 2nd on OL help for Josh too. Literally 4 of our first 5 picks were used on offense. And it is known Beane tried unsuccessfully to trade up higher in that draft before the WR run, and was unsuccessful and rebuffed. And I have first hand knowledge the Chargers were one of the teams who had no interest in trading set on Quentin. 4 WR's went off the board in a row and left us trading up for what was literally the highest graded offensive weapon still on the board in Kincaid. And he was 100% drafted to be a weapon for Allen, to be a bonafide 2nd target weapon along side our top 5 WR Diggs.
The only non day 3 pick he used on defense was Dorian Williams in the 3rd, and in his only stint starting for a partial season he led the team in tackles. Hard to fault them for taking him there when 1st, 2nd, and our 4th (via trade up) had already been used on offense.
Again - you keep ignoring the context. I am all for adding WR's too, but you just keep saying they could have done this and that without considering the real world events that actually happened. Beane then also spent a future 3rd on Cooper, another high value draft asset on another WR which with our $31M dead cap hit was about the best case scenario given his contract was owed under $1M when we acquired him.
So now add in we also spent a 2025 draft asset of a 3rd round pick also on a WR. And I know you and most everyone here supported that trade. We can all have revisionist theory now and say well maybe we should have held on to that 3rd and used that 3rd to draft a WR this year, but thats not what anyone was saying when the trade was made that was almost universally accepted around here.
We already know 2022 was Beane's best overall draft ever, even with Elam busting. 2023 we used 3 of our picks on pass catchers, and 5 of our 7 picks on offense. 2024, we used our first pick to take a WR, in a draft that has not seen any outside WR after him be any better than Keon has. And 2025, our defense was by far our biggest issues and our WR room upgraded the overall talent in the room compared to the 2024 group that was part of the best offense in Bills history.
I respect the convo, and the different perspective. But I do not think you are really being fair to Beane when factoring in how much he did actually invest in weapons and protection for Allen since 2022 really, and what few options he has had to legitimately replace Diggs and add to the room since the Diggs relationship blew up earlier than intended, which included saddling a cap strapped team with $31M in dead money too.
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54 minutes ago, ngbills said:
I get where you’re coming from, and I actually agree with parts of what you’re saying, especially around context and the fact that there wasn’t an obvious, slam-dunk Diggs replacement sitting there at the Bills’ draft slots. But I think you’re still missing the broader point of what “passing on a replacement” really means.
It’s not just about identifying one specific player they could have drafted or traded for but it’s about whether the organization prioritized that need enough to create the opportunity. Saying, “there was no one available at our picks” ignores that front offices routinely move up or structure cap space around a position they deem critical. The Bills clearly didn’t see WR1 as that level of priority.
No disrespect, but you seem to be ignoring that 2 years in a row, the Bills used the first pick in the draft, including a trade up where they used a 1st and 4th to get Kincaid, to get a pass catching weapon for Josh Allen. Not sure how they can be accused of not prioritizing it, when even when they had Diggs and Davis still, they invested a 1st and 4th to get Kincaid after they unsuccessfully tried to trade up to get what was believed to be Addison.
Then the first year without Diggs, they also had a $31M dead cap hit on a team already tight on cap. They didn't have cap room to acquire a top end WR, and they didn't have a high enough pick to get any of the premiere outside WR prospects. They took Keon, who has been the best WR in the calls on the outside so far from that draft. So they took the best available outside WR actually even though that pick Keon has not yet worked out as we have hoped. But he is also being used poorly by Brady in this offense, which isn't helping matters.
54 minutes ago, ngbills said:If Beane and McDermott had viewed replacing Diggs as a foundational need, they could have approached the offseason differently, whether that meant freeing up cap to pursue a higher-end veteran, packaging picks to move up for BTJ, or even structuring a trade before the draft. Instead, they made a conscious bet that their offense and Allen’s playmaking could sustain itself through scheme and depth rather than a true WR1. That’s a valid strategic choice, but it is a choice.
They clearly did - the invested their first pick in the draft in back to back years on a pass catcher for Allen. And they also invested a 4th (as part of the trade to get Kincaid) and a 5th also in the same draft in a late round WR pick as well.
54 minutes ago, ngbills said:So when people say “they passed on a replacement,” it’s not necessarily saying “they passed on Player X who was guaranteed to be better.” It’s saying “they chose not to make replacing Diggs a top-level investment priority.” That’s fair to debate.
Is it fair? You are accusing a GM of not prioritizing weapons for Allen when in 2023 all but 2 of our picks were used on offense, including our 1st and 4th on Kincaid when we still had a top 5 WR and in 2024 they again used their top pick on a WR that has actually been the best outside WR available from the point we selected him in the entire draft.
54 minutes ago, ngbills said:You’re absolutely right that there weren’t obvious perfect options, and that DK and Pickens came with baggage or cost issues. But you can still fairly question whether the Bills’ overall philosophy, essentially deciding WR1 wasn’t worth aggressively targeting, was the right call for a team trying to keep its Super Bowl window open.
In short:
You’re right there wasn’t a sure-thing replacement sitting there.
But that’s partly because the Bills didn’t put themselves in position to get one.
That’s the real debate, not who they literally passed on, but whether they should’ve prioritized finding a true WR1 more than they did.I appreciate the friendly debate and dialogue, and enjoyed the convo. But I respectfully disagree they did not put themselves in position to get one when they used their most prized draft assets 2 years in a row on weapons for Allen, plus used multiple picks on OL help, including a 2nd in 2023 on O'Cyrus, all to help Josh Allen. You can't draft what isn't there, they drafted based on what was available. And as much as people are dissatisfied with Keon, there is not another outside WR that has done more than Keon or proven to be better thus far. So the mistake was not drafting a different WR, it was not drafting Cooper DeJean, which of course would have even pissed the fan base off even more even though he would be the better pick in a redo.
The only argument is that they did not draft one in 2025, but after a 2023 draft based almost entirely on offense (all picks but 2 were used on offense) and 2024 first addressing WR over say someone like Cooper DeJean, it was time to address the defense that was by far the weakest part of the team in 2024 after the offense put up the best season in franchise history leading to Allen winning MVP. The last time our team was on the field, our defense gave up 32 to a team that had not scored 30 the entire season and was down 31-0 in their next game - while our offense averaged 29 PPG against 3 of the best defenses in the AFC in our 3 playoff games.
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20 minutes ago, Pete said:
We could of easily traded up ,for Brian thomas. Jack Bech. DK. Pickens. Get on the phone, make it happen. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
You see this is the made up stuff that irks me. We could have "easily" trade up for BTJ? With who? Jags had offers to trade down and didn't as they wanted BTJ to replace Ridley.
So where is your evidence we could have "easily" traded up to get him? Steelers loved Fautanu, they were not "easily" moving off that pick. Miami was at 21, and they badly needed a DE, and trading with divisional rivals is already more complicated. Not sure Miami was going to "easily" hand Josh Allen a 6'5" WR with 4.3 speed. Eagles loved Quinyon Mitchell, and there were teams between us and them that also needed a corner where he could go, like Lions 2 picks later who also took a corner. They were not "easily" going to trade down and lose their guy.
So please, lay out this "easy" route to BTJ that quite frankly likely didn't exist.
Jack Bech? He wasn't even in that draft, he was in the 2025 draft. And he has done exactly what in the NFL so far besides nothing? He has 7 catches in 7 games played lmao. Keon has been way more productive than him even when he was a ghost after coming back from injury last year. But somehow Bech is the missed heir apparent and WR room savior post Diggs era? And more importantly, in the 2025 draft our offense was coming off a historically great season while our defense was horrific again in our AFCCG loss. Hard to fault a GM addressing the weakest side of the ball in the draft when the offense was literally the best offense in team history the season before.
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1 hour ago, ngbills said:
You are kind of contradicting yourself. On one hand you start with tell me who the Bills replacement options were and then go on to say "most important" the Bills did not think they needed to do anything on offense. So if they didnt think they needed to do anything, how can you answer who the potential replacement was? If they value a WR more then maybe they do use more resources to move up in the draft for BTJ or even further. Maybe they do use more $ to sign or trade for someone. They instead have made the bet that they dont need a #1 and ran with it. So its not really fair to say there was no replacement because we dont know what could have been if they took a different approach.
No disrespect, but you just did what everyone else does...you provided no answer to who was the heir apparent we passed on to Diggs? You said not trading up for BTJ - look I agree, I would have loved to see us trade up for BTJ, and thought we would if he got close enough. While my opinion is that we did not try to, no one actually knows if we did try or didn't try. And no one knows that we could have even successfully traded up if we had tried. So at no point was he a real option for us to take, it is nothing more than speculative move we may or may not attempt, or may or may not even been able to if we had tried.
So again, where is the actual player we for sure could have had that was the heir apparent to Diggs? 2023, we tried to trade up and got rebuffed and all the WRs went off the board before we finally found a trade partner and took the best pass catching weapon still on the board in Kincaid. 2024, there was literally 0 available at any of our picks that have gone on to be legit outside WR1 players. In fact, Keon has been the best of the guys available in terms of outside WR's, and he has not been that good.
You said maybe they use more $ to sign or trade for someone. What WR1 that would solve our issues was available that we could afford in FA? Which WR should we have traded for? The only 2 guys that got traded that fit the description were DK and Pickens. And I already covered why they didn't make sense at the time they were traded. We couldn't afford 1, who got a deal far above his real value, and the other was only available for being a locker room problem and a "me first" guy, the exact thing we took a $31M cap hit to get rid of in the first place. And both those trades happened coming off the best offensive season in Bills history where the offense scored more points than it ever had with a high priced top 5 WR in its previous 4 seasons. So the "need" to over spend on a DK or gamble on a guy with locker room and selfish issues wasn't really there.
My whole point is context matters. Its easy to say we should have gotten a Diggs replacement - its much harder to prove where we could have actually done that since he was traded.
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I would not expect Max to be thrust into a starting role early here. They will more likely bring him along slow like they have in the past. Don't get me wrong, I would personally start him no later than the KC game where KC has 3 WR's that run a sub 4.4 forty. Even if he struggles, let him get his feet wet against a team we most certainly will need to go through in the AFC playoffs. But, my expectation is that Max won't start for a while, and would not even surprise me if he didn't start all year.
Hope I am wrong, but its just what we have done in the past.
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18 hours ago, Pete said:
And there has been a huge void since. They never replaced Diggs, and failed at their few attempts
Where is this heir apparent replacement for Diggs? 2024 draft, NO player after we took Keon is a bonafide WR1 starter - literally none. The guys who are were Nabers, Odunze, and BTJ with MHJ a disappointment, and ALL taken BEFORE our pick and none of those teams ahead of us had any interest in trading as far back as we were.
The only 2 players who had any success from where we picked Keon were Ladd and Pearsall, both slot guys for a team who had nothing but slot WR's on it. Neither of those guys are outside WR's. The other argument is Worthy, also proven not to be a bonafide outside WR1 already whose stats are pretty pedestrian despite having more target opportunity, starting as a WR1 a bulk of his career due to injuries and suspensions, and playing the the greatest offensive mind and arguably the best QB in the league the whole time.
So where is this "Diggs Replacement" we passed up? Its clear, it wasn't in the draft, so the only other option would have been via trade. The only 2 options were DK and Pickens. DK got a disgusting contract that would have cost us multiple players and prevented us from resigning Cook for a guy who is one dimensional and whose contract would have been problematic for a cap moving forward too. Pickens cost 2 draft picks and is going to cost a hefty contract to retain, but the bigger issue was we just got rid of one bad locker room guy whose me first attitude wore his welcome out here. Pickens whole career was marred with me first issues, team suspensions, and a team desperate for WR's decided he wasn't worth keeping. So not a surprise he wasn't a target. MOST IMPORTANT, is that BOTH of these guys were traded in an offseason where the Bills offense was coming off scoring the most total points in the NFL last year, led the AFC in PPG in both reg season and postseason, and saw its last time on the field end when the defense surrendered 32 points to a team that never broke 30 the entire season and was down 31-0 by the 3rd quarter in its next game.
Not really a surprise Beane didn't feel he needed to give up both a 2nd round pick and a cap choking contract to a one dimensional WR or needed to gamble on a guy who had been a locker room issue his whole career to where his own team gave up on him despite desperately needing WR help, and so bad they were the ones to over pay for DK. But Steelers also don't have long term cap issues at QB either like the Bills have.
So I am still waiting for someone to show us where the "savior" to post Diggs woes of the Bills WR was, because it doesn't exist. No one is arguing to not have a top end WR1, the point is that there has not been an opportunity to draft one and there has not been an opportunity to acquire one that made sense. I would not have been mad if DK or Pickens landed here, but its pretty clear why they didn't too at the time they were available.
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16 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:
That’s what I’ve been telling anybody that will listen about our receivers. While I would love to add top and talent, we don’t even use the guys we have. This offense is just weird.
This is a big issue, the use of our personnel makes no sense. They are using Keon poorly and forcing a square peg into a round hole, they dont use a 2 TE attack despite having invested a 1st and a 4th into Kincaid and gazillion dollars into Knox where they always keep one in as a blocker, they aren't using Cook in the passing game much at all, Samuel and Moore get very little consideration despite seeing Samuel running open a lot and Moore gets reverses more than anything, and we are not getting Kincaid and Shakir the targets they should be getting as the two best pass catchers on this team.
Ive been a big Brady supporter the first season and a half was here, and the results spoke for themselves. But this year, I have been critical of Brady every single week. I don't think Brady is doing a good job adjusting to how the defenses have adjusted to defend his offense, I think they have over corrected to be too cautious, and I think he is calling a poor game plan where he also gets too cute too much.
To be honest, this reminds me a lot of the downfall IMO of what was Daboll as an OC here. Once Daboll started getting buzz as both an offensive guru and major HC candidate, suddenly Daboll got pretty stupid on down and short or in key situations where he would try and get too tricky, too gimmicky, as if he wanted to keep raising his hype train more than he cared about calling our best plays in key moments. Brady IMO has started going that route now after his emergence last season with an offense that grossly exceeded its expectations under his first year as the full time OC.
I am hoping the bye week gives him time to reflect on how to better use our guys and better call a game. As I have been saying since our loss - Brady should spend the bye studying 2 things: How Eagles manage down and short and how Atlanta used both Drake and Bijon in the passing game as it was exactly how we should be using Keon and Cook. Not saying our 2 guys are as good as their 2, but how they moved both around to get them good looks and better opportunities is what we are not doing with either Keon or Cook.
Keon may not be headed for a gold jacket, but I think he can still be a quality football player for this team if he is used properly. He has proven he can win on slants, crossers, and comebacks yet we don't create many opportunities for him. We keep lining him up outside and asking him to beat guys off the line, and even when he has, we aren't giving him the targets. But when we do give him targets its mostly 50/50 balls, and quite frankly, Josh has not been putting the ball in good spots this year on those 50/50 balls either. So STOP with that route and lets get Keon involved by moving him around and scheming him open.
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Hoecht is a good player, better than I think a lot of people realize, and he will help this defense. Larry O is older, but with the injuries to the DTs and how bad our run defense has been, he should also make a noticeable impact. And if the front 7 plays better, it can also help our secondary make more plays.
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We have younger similar players in Samuel and Moore who we already don't use. Yes, there was a point in Locketts career where he was better than both - but this aint it. As someone said, I would rather call up Davis than sign an older version of guys we already dont use properly.
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1 hour ago, FireChans said:
Agree with your first bit, not so much the second bit.
I'll break it down.
"In 2022, we extended Diggs and had an ascending Davis (coming off his 4 TD KC game), but they needed a future Slot guy and the signed Crowder and drafted Shakir (who has been a big hit for them out of the 5th round)."
100% true. The corollary to the ascending Davis + Diggs extension meant that the clock was ticking on losing Davis almost assuredly after his rookie deal. Which was only 2 seasons away. And Diggs was extended well before the draft. This left us EXTREMELY top heavy at WR. We had Digg+Davis with a 2 year window and basically nothing behind them.
Now, DURING 2022, we famously, desperately, brought back Beasley and Brown midseason to give the WR room more juice. This is the most damning piece of evidence that WR needed to be addressed. Our own GM was dumpster diving with former Buffalo players well past their era. It would be like if we brought back Jordan Poyer/Tre White this year and then didn't address the safety and CB positions in the draft next year. Unconscionable, but exactly what happened prior.
First of all, like the response - don't agree with all of it, which is ok, but appreciate the thought out and detailed reply.
You left out 2 key parts in 2022, that we resigned McKenzie and we signed Crowder, both to compete in the slot along with rookie Shakir. And people around here argued with me non stop that McKenzie was going to break out that year when I said he had no business starting, including some very prominent posters. Crowder, who had been a proven productive slot guy, was the likely starter while they groomed the rookie Shakir and had McKenzie in his normal gadget role - but Crowder got hurt. That is what led to them bringing back Cole, and that also had a lot to do with how stupid Dorsey was who decided to bring the ghost of Cole in instead of getting Shakir more snaps.
1 hour ago, FireChans said:"In 2023, Diggs was on his first year of his extension and Davis left some real question marks about his long term future as a WR2. They start looking for a Davis replacement in that draft, and they tried to trade up more than once and got rebuffed which led to a 4 pick WR run in front of us. They went with the best pass catching weapon on their board still in Kincaid."
This is true, but there's other rounds besides round 1. Jayden Reed was a second rounder, Rashee Rice was a second rounder, Marvin Mims a second rounder, Tank Dell a third rounder, Josh Downs a third rounder, Tre Tucker a third rounder etc etc.
Again, they know they likely aren't backing up the Brinks truck for Gabe Davis at this point. Shakir has proven nothing thus far. They are completely top heavy, again, and they bring in two jokers that are somehow worse than the corpses of Beasley and Brown in Harty and Sherfield. The train is coming down the tracks. We are 1 offseason away from our backs against the wall in terms of needing to basically nail a starting WR pick.
Also minor point, but 2023 Diggs was not on the first year of his extension. He was extended with 2 seasons left. He didn't play a snap on his extension for the Buffalo Bills.
I totally agree, there are more rounds. But what you miss here is that the Bills used TWO picks on Kincaid already, a first and a 4th. THAT was the pass catcher investment in that draft. Then they still used another pick in the 5th on a flyer in Shorter. And while Davis had question marks, it was also revealed he had played on a bad ankle the whole previous season and there was belief still amongst the team that the ankle held him back in 2022. And while there were a lot of "us" around here (myself included) that felt Davis was not likely to be back, that doesn't mean the coaches and FO had already made that decision either.
But again, the investment WAS made in a "post Gabe" pass catcher, it just came in the form of a TE given their attempts to move up for a WR were rebuffed and then 4 in a row came off the board ahead of their pick. Kincaid may be a "TE", but he was drafted to be an offensive weapon for Allen, and a weapon that could be the real WR2 in terms of the 2nd target on the team behind Diggs if Gabe wasn't brought back.
And once they invested 2 picks in one draft to get Kincaid, there were other needs at that point to address outside just "pass catchers" with now Diggs, Davis still here, Shakir (who despite being unknown, they loved and thought highly of) and a 2 headed TE combo of Knox (who they just paid a big extension to) and Kincaid. They also drafted Cook to also be a receiving weapon out of the backfield in 2022. And if you look at this draft, 5 picks were used on the offense 1+4 on Kincaid, 2nd on O'Cyrus and 2 day 3 picks that included a WR and OL.
So while I totally agree you can find WR's outside the early rounds (although dont tell the rest of TSW that or they lose their minds as they think the only way to get one is mortgage the entire future and make impossible move ups to get one), the context and facts of this draft is the Bills used 2 early picks on one pass catcher already while they still had a 28 year old top 5 WR in Diggs on a 4 year extension, Davis still one more year who they felt was going to have a bounce back year, a young Shakir, and now a first round TE whose only job was to be a receiving weapon (that also cost them a 4th too).
1 hour ago, FireChans said:"2024 - the Diggs relationship with the team deteriorated to the point that not only were they not going to pay Davis to stay, they had no choice but to eat $31M in dead cap for an "addition by substraction" move with Diggs. This resulted in the team unexpectedly needing to replace both WR1 and WR2 in the same offseason and in a draft where they were already missing a 3rd round pick, and had a lot of turnover on the defense too with cap cuts aging guys out. "
So this was all pretty predictable. We knew guys would get old and need to be replaced, this happens for every team. Sure, the Diggs disaster was probably not expected BUT Diggs or no Diggs we put ourselves in a scenario where we needed a boundary WR desperately in the first 2-3 rounds. And post-Diggs, we needed 2. Brandon Beane, draft night, knows we need two starting WRs. We still only took one, and that after trading BACK for more picks to shore up the defense (and that pick was a disaster in Carter and Coleman ain't looking too hot right now.)
End of the day, this was never about guys getting old. This was about a 29 year old top 5 WR with 3 years left on his deal becoming malcontent, forcing the team to essentially trade him, and us taking back a $31M dead cap hit as a result.
And we can say "he should have taken more WR's last year" - but who did we really miss the boat on in the middle rounds in that draft? The only guys really doing anything were not available at any of our next picks. What WR in last years draft that we passed on in rounds 2-7 would be changing our season and franchise right now?
This is my entire point - where is this WR room savior in that draft for us to have taken? There wasn't any - literally - none. The only 3 WR's who busted out that play on the outside are Nabers, Odunze, and BTJ. Neither of which were available to us at any point. The 2 best players drafted after we took Keon have been Ladd and Pearsall, but both were gone by our next pick, and neither were a fit for the Bills needs when we took Keon even as we had a roster full of slot players already.
1 hour ago, FireChans said:As for the rest of your post, I agree he saw Allen make lemonade and basically rolled the dice he could do it twice. But he was and is wrong. He can't have it both ways, although he often gets it. He got to play the "we couldn't bring anyone in because Diggs was unexpected and was a massive cap hit" card for one year, then the next season when the books clear and we still have a Diggs-shaped hole on the roster, he gets to say we can't afford to pay big time WR's.
The fact of the matter is that massive WR salaries are new, but not that new. 2022 and on had massive money being thrown towards superstar pass catchers. Part of the GM job is being proactive instead of reactive when it comes to restocking an expensive position group. We should have had 1-2 more Shakir-types who may not have been major contributors in year 1 but waiting in the wings preparing for life after Davis.
Combine that with him consistently building maybe the thinnest WR unit in the NFL after Sanders retired. You say that WR wasn't a massive need early, but we had Diggs/Davis and basically nobody until 2023 when Shakir burst on the scene. What if Diggs or Davis got injured? We had nothing behind them. Josh Palmer just got hurt and I think Tyrell Shavers is next man up to start and play 70% of the snaps? With massive needs at WR the last 2 offseasons? That's criminal lol. There's a reason teams roster 5-6 WR's.
The fact of the matter is that the Bills have been very proactive for other groups except WR. We have AJE/Bosa's, Ed Oliver's and Daquan Jones' and Matt Milano's potential replacements all on the roster already, they were all drafted before they needed to st art immediately. I do not agree that Beane was unable to apply that philosophy to WR over the last 4 seasons.
I love adding talent, I am not opposed to adding more talent to the WR at all. All I have been saying is that there is a lot of context to what we have or haven't done.
But one thing I think you have wrong is about us being thin - I would argue that we are actually the opposite, I would say we are more deep compared to most teams with competent WR's, I mean Samuel and Moore can and have started with success on other teams in worse QB situations too. You can't say that about a lot of teams. Now last year was different, those 2 didn't work out, but this year I am referencing the deep guys are competent WRs even though we don't use them (which is frustrating on its own).
Where we are actually weak is at the top end of our WR room. And that is my whole point, there have not been "top end" options for us to go and get the past 3 years. 2023 we tried, but got rebuffed and took the best pass catcher available using a 1st and 4th to get Kincaid. In 2024 none of the guys who are top end outside WR1s were available when we picked and none have been produced in the picks after either. In 2025, we already both agree on why Beane felt the D was a bigger issue.
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14 minutes ago, nosejob said:
48 pages....and I don't know if it's been said but the no.1 way to improve or WR core right now is to......THROW TO THE DAM RUNNING BACKS! Sheesh
I don't get it....but I do see everyone else doing it.
Is it Josh or is it Brady?
The lack of including Cook in the passing game is mind boggling as is how they insist on using Keon.
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4 hours ago, FireChans said:
We didn’t need Justin Jefferson in 2020 to have a WR1 in 2025.
JJ was like the fifth WR off the board. No one could have known that he was going to be arguably the greatest WR ever.
We traded for a known commodity in the league to help propel Josh to superstardom and it worked swimmingly. I have zero complaints on that aspect.
Agreed, people forget that JJ going into that draft played a lot in the slot and wasn't even thought of being a potential elite WR1, let alone one of the best of his era in what seems to be a career headed for GOAT consideration. Most people on this board were demanding Bills find a way to trade up for Ruggs, Jeudy, or Lamb rather than "settle" for Higgins or JJ.
Diggs was a great trade for us, where we got the sure thing vs the gamble on a rookie at a time our young QB needed someone to take his game to the next level.
4 hours ago, FireChans said:The problem is that Beane has a vendetta against all great WRs because Diggs left on acrimonious terms. That’s it. He’s had plenty of chances to find the next WR1 and refused to do so.
This is where I think Beane gets a bit of a bad rap in terms of saying he has a vendetta against it or refuses to invest in WR. A lot of this has to do with circumstances.
- Bills had a top 5 WR, there were bigger needs during Diggs best seasons here than investing in another WR early in the draft with Diggs in his prime.
- In 2022, we extended Diggs and had an ascending Davis (coming off his 4 TD KC game), but they needed a future Slot guy and the signed Crowder and drafted Shakir (who has been a big hit for them out of the 5th round).
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In 2023, Diggs was on his first year of his extension and Davis left some real question marks about his long term future as a WR2. They start looking for a Davis replacement in that draft, and they tried to trade up more than once and got rebuffed which led to a 4 pick WR run in front of us. They went with the best pass catching weapon on their board still in Kincaid.
- Bills settled for a pass catching weapon at TE instead, he was not the original plan, especially since they had just paid Knox all that money.
- The also invested not only our 1st, but also our 4th in Kincaid, making drafting another WR in rounds 2 or 3 pretty unlikely. We did still take a flyer on Shorter in the 5th, and also took O'Cyrus in the 2nd (another investment into Josh Allen through protection). In fact, all but 2 picks were used on offense in this draft and it resulted in 2 key starters.
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2024 - the Diggs relationship with the team deteriorated to the point that not only were they not going to pay Davis to stay, they had no choice but to eat $31M in dead cap for an "addition by substraction" move with Diggs. This resulted in the team unexpectedly needing to replace both WR1 and WR2 in the same offseason and in a draft where they were already missing a 3rd round pick, and had a lot of turnover on the defense too with cap cuts aging guys out.
- No one was willing to trade back with us for a shot at any of the top 3.
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Beane and most everyone seem to think it was a mini retool year with all the turnover we had and Beane entered the draft more focused on acquiring more draft capital than trading up.
- This led to what I feel is the only real mistake Beane made, and that was not trying to move up for BTJ. Up to this point, he tried to get Addison and got rebuffed and settled on Kincaid. So can't draft who isn't available, not really on Beane for that. But, BTJ got within striking distance, and who knows if he would have even found a trade partner or not, but his mistake to me was not trying to get BTJ who was clearly what this team needed the most.
Leading into 2024 - There was not really a reasonable opportunity for us to have done much different along the way where we clearly missed on something. The not trying to get BTJ is really only it, and even if he tried we don't even know for sure we could have even successfully got him as it takes 2 to trade.
Now in 2024, Bills come into the season fielding a less than ideal WR group due to cap issues, turnover, and lack of options during the period we were facing rebuilding the room. But, Brady and Allen go on to orchestrate an offense that saw Cook emerge, saw us lead the AFC in PPG both in reg season and playoffs, led the entire NFL in total points scored in reg season and postseason combined, saw Allen win MVP, saw us never lose the turnover battle, saw us get on the door step of the Super Bowl where we lost by 3 to a team who did not score 30 in any other game except against us with 32. And quite frankly refs also screwed us.
So now Beane (not saying he should have, just saying what happened) is seeing that success and comes into the 2025 season feeling like the Defense needs by far the most attention (and it did) and we just need to add some more pieces to the offense around our young guys. They saw Keon working hard in the offseason and giving them reason for optimism (he was on a 1000 yard pace in his last 5 games before he got hurt last year as a rookie as he seemed like he was coming on) and went and got Palmer to help beat some man and added another speed guy in Moore.
I am not saying that was the right mindset, but its hard to fault a GM who saw this work to such a high level the year before and think bringing Cook back, adding some better guys around the core, etc would see the offense continue to be elite or even better. And our top 2 picks have been hurt, so hard to even know yet if the defensive picks were mistakes yet.
We need help at WR on the outside, not denying it. Where I don't agree with a lot of the hate Beane gets on this is that he is either incapable of drafting WR's or just refuses. Allen had a top 5 WR up until last year, and the top 5 WR was signed to be here even still today. During this span, the only real "miss" was not trying to trade for BTJ even though we don't even know if he could have. Some people bring up DK, but I think DK is grossly over paid and if he had traded for DK it would cost us players through cap impact and we would have not resigned Cook either nor drafted TJ Sanders (who is still an intriguing prospect despite injury and slow start).
So its easy to say we should have done more at WR - but there was not a lot "more" out there for us to grab the past 3 seasons in terms of early round picks where they did use the first pick in the draft twice on a pass catcher. And the one season they didn't (this draft) we were coming off a season where we scored the most points in the NFL and Josh won the MVP.
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5 minutes ago, FireChans said:
Especially to nitpick, but we can cut TJ next year for a 2026 dead cap hit of 7.75 and no cap hit in 2027, with roughly $3M in savings.
It’s why he will be in the take a pay cut or get cut camp. We will tell him that we save $3M if we cut him so he can either give us that money back or he can take his chances in FA.
The problem for Taron is that last year was quite shaky as well.
Its a consistent thing for him over 1.3 seasons now.I dont think the secondary and front 7 was very good last year either though
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I don't know I would say its uncomfortable, and not sure he is approaching being "washed", but its not been a good season for him, or much of the secondary.
Play up front greatly impacts play on the back, and vice versa. So for me, I am not yet in the panic mindset on someone like Taron, whose job is inherently harder because we have not been good up front or on the back end of this defense.
If getting Max and the PED duo back, on top of our injured guys (Olive is back, but just got back last game) can help the front 7 and secondary play better, then I think its quite possible we will see Taron play closer to his standards.
That being said, I do think Taron's days here are in jeopardy coming to an end this next offseason unless they rework his deal. His cap hit takes a big jump for 2026 and also 2027, his age 30 and 31 seasons. He will either be a cap casualty, or he will get his deal redone. I can't see him playing again next year under his current deal that runs until 2028 (with 2028 being a void year). While I think he is capable of more than he has done this year (due to the struggles across the D around him), his best days are likely behind him.
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3 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:
It’s Josh but so far we have the head hanging version of Josh this year. He doesn’t get all fired up for every game but still generally does for the biggest moments. He’s the only answer. The OL would be my 2nd choice.
The Bills could use a little fire and swagger. That’s why Curt Cignetti was my coaching target (prior to getting $11.5M a year). CGJ would have been a nice pickup for this reason too (in addition to our safeties being terrible).
This offense reminds me of the real estate crash of 2007/2008. Before the crash anyone could get a loan - after the crash even the most qualified were struggling to get qualified, it was a total gross overcorrection before it later found balance again.
I feel like that is the Brady offense right now - a complete over correction from sugar rush and wreckless Josh to now being too careful. It absolutely is better for Josh to force less passes, take what is there, master the short game, etc. Its what made Brady and now Mahomes so lethal, they not only hit the big plays bit they will often kill you by deaths of a thousand cuts.
But our entire offense is now completely built on manufacturing that and forcing that. We went from too wreckless to now too careful. And again, we saw a lot of great success at first with it - MVP, fewest turnovers in the league, most points in the entire league last year, NFL record of consecutive games not losing the turnover battle, etc. But, like with anything, the league has caught on and caught up. The blue print is out there to slow it down, disrupt it, identify its limitations, etc. Sure, we still get some scoring drives, but its taken away consistency from this offense through predictability.
And quite honestly, Josh feeds on the energy he gets from hitting a big play, trucking some guy, leaping over someone, slamming his way into the endzone, etc. Brady has gotten too cute on down and short, too focused on getting 8-10 people to catch a pass, etc. If he doesn't figure out how to pivot and start scheming guys open more, using our personnel better (they are totally using Keon wrong for example), and getting after it more on offense, then this offense is not going to get out of this inconsistent rut. Cook not being in on critical drives or any 3rd downs is just insane. Struggling on down and short with Josh Allen, James Cook, and 3 TE's is insane.
Ive been a fan of Brady early, but I have also been a big critic this whole season as I don't think Brady has done a good job this year and don't think there is even 1 game I can say Brady had it going that game.
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4 hours ago, Buffalo03 said:
How do you evaluate WR talent? Maybe you should give the Bills your resume?
Even better, and better than our FO 😂 - get me Terry's email so I can get him my resume 😂
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I said it leading up to the draft and on draft night, Maye had the highest ceiling in the draft. And if I was going to take a QB, he was the one I would take the gamble on. I wasn’t thrilled to see him end up in NE, and we are seeing that concern come full circle already. IMHO, Maye is on his way to becoming a top 10 QB in this league for years to come.
Said the same thing about Dart this year, except with Dart I went a step further and stated he was flat out the best QB in this draft.
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The things that get posted here never ceases to amaze me
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5 hours ago, Success said:
I'm kind of surprised by the lack of trade this week. It's a perfect time to bring someone in during the bye to get acclimated to the offense.
We really have to get someone. Meyers seems like a pretty easy trade, and would really help. Obviously Olave, though that's more expensive. But there are options, and we have to take advantage of this year where there are no standout teams.
It also takes two to trade. We could have called on some players, but just because we call doesn’t mean those teams are in a rush either. Teams are going to try and find the best deals if they make trades, so it’s not our timeline they are on, it’s theirs.-
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46 minutes ago, Sojourner said:
Flacco played very well, especially for a guy who just landed there.
However, most knew he would succeed somewhat. Throw the ball to Chase and Higgins. Not much else to it.
The sad part is these talking heads act like it isn’t the key part of the equation here…
Thank you - its amazing how little context is consider in discussions anymore. Whether its here, the media, whatever - everything is "apples to apples" when things are not remotely similar. There is a massive difference of throwing to Chase and Higgins compared to Jeudy and Bond.
It's also one game. That being said - they are not actually wrong about the Browns, total joke of an organization.
With Watson's contract stuck on the books and destroying the cap, all the Browns should care about right now is developing young players and getting higher draft picks. They should have let the rookies battle it out for 1 and 2, played the guy who won, and not be afraid to switch to the other in season if the first one wasn't showing promise.
This season should have been entirely about discovering if they have a potential starter (or long term backup) in either of their 2 rookie QBs and being totally ok if they lose games while finding out given their cap is f-ed until they finally get rid of Watson anyway. So might as well get better draft picks along the way when there is no real way to contend for anything meaningful until then.
Its also why they should have never paid Myles and traded him for a bounty and instead given the FO an armory of draft capital to rebuild around the young guys once the franchise killing sex predator Watson was finally off the books.
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I clicked on this thread and saw people discussing an Allen trade - and so I am out lol.
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Joe Marino's 9 point plan for improvement
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Why do we put up with a team that was a ref screw job away from the SB last year? The nerve us to accept such mediocrity.