Alphadawg7
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Posts posted by Alphadawg7
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Well, he WAS a #2 WR on the Cards. Fitzgerald was #1.
But I think the response points out two things:
#1. The position of the WR on any given team doesn't equal a particular draft pick. It's an idiotic question. (Consider the source)
#2. The idea that Evans is a #2 (when clearly he has been the Bills #1 for years) is also flawed. Evans would likely be #1 on at least 50% of NFL teams, IMO. He has to be one of the most underrated players in the NFL at this point. Given the QB situation, and the general incompetence of the Bills offense during his tenure, it's pretty impressive Evans has put up the numbers he has, to date.
In response to the original question, I doubt the Bills could get what Evans is worth. I think it's a fairly dumb idea to begin with.
Totally agree...
Plus, in a case like Boldin and Fitz...its really like 1A and 1B. Boldin clearly produced at high levels with Fitz, before Fitz, and when Fitz was out. There are very few teams that he would not be the best WR on.
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Ask Boldin.
Are you implying Boldin is a #2 WR? He is literally a top 5 WR in the NFL and has produced at a very high level his entire career as a #1 before Fitz got there and when Fitz has missed games. He set the rookie record for receptions with over 100 on a bad Cardinals team as the #1 WR and has never looked back. This guy is a beast with great hands, route running, run after the catch, strength, and intelligence on the field...his only knock is that he has had a few injuries because of his physical style of play. Not to mention he is an excellent blocker on the field too.
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That was a really informative link, thanks.
Nerd.
I cant help but notice the gibberish post about not being able to get a 2nd for Lee and then this gem of a follow up showcasing the word "nerd" when someone blasted it.
Clearly you are a kid who plays Madden and doesnt really know football. So I will spare you the lashing for the absurd notion that Lee's value is less than a 2nd round pick. Lees problem isnt talent within himself, its been the lack of talent from our QB's who have been the worst collection of QB's in the NFL the last 3 years outside of Oakland.
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Fitz 50%
Brohm 20%
Brown 20%
Trent 10%
Through pre season Trent will rack up the completion percentage, sacks, picks, and 3 and outs. Fitz won't be pretty, but we'll score more points with him a the controls. He'll study harder and learn the offense better than the others.
Brohm I'm not so sure about. I don't watch much college football and never heard his name until the Bills got him last year. Some highly touted college QBs are great like P. Manning, Staubach, and Brees. Other aren't like Danny Werful, Ryan Leaf, Art Schlister, Brian Sipe, and J Russell. Brown, who knows? But he does have the most "upside" (translation: hasn't done anything yet) than any of the other QBs.
Really, if Trent doesn't play lights out, he'll be cut. He's in the last year of his contract. If he can't win the job this year, why keep him? Brohm or Brown could be just as good backups.
Are these your odds to be top of the pecking order day 1 of camp or to be the week 1 starter? What I wrote were the odds of who was going to be the top of the pecking order day 1 of camp.
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Why is this thread still going as if Chan announced anything?
1. Chan has NOT announced to anyone his pecking order, and all of this is based on a report by an unreliable reporter and alleged players opinnions on what they think it will be. Why on Earth would Chan tell players on the team and NOT his QB's? Am I the only one who realizes how stupid that is and is the number 1 indicator that this tool Moran is just reporting hear say that may not even exist?
2. Who acutally cares who is at the top of the pecking order anyway to start camp. What is so confusing about the fact that Chan has made it 100% clear that there will be a full blown open competition to win the job. Someone has to be listed as QB1 come camp, however, it actually means nothing at all what so ever in terms to who the starter will be come week one. The QB battle was not won or lost in the OTA's, it was just the beginning to the real battle which will be fought in camp and preseason.
Doesnt matter if its Brohm, Fitz or Trent...means nothing...but here is how I put the odds of who will be top of pecking order day 1 of camp:
Trent 50% - Based on experience and percieved potential to be a starter.
Brohm 40% - Based on improvements during OTA and higher potential than any QB on the roster. Lack of experience means he probably has to win it in camp rather before he sits atop pecking order.
Fitz 10% - Long shot to become the starter let alone be atop pecking order day 1, but possible. He has not been very accurate and seems better suited as a solid backup than a full time starter. He didnt seperate himself according to reports during the OTA's, and he is a guy that needed to if he was going to become a real threat for QB1. Still has time to shine in camp and preseason though.
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When the Pack lose Aaron Rodgers, Greg Jennings, Ryan Grant, Jermichael Finley, Charles Woodson, and Nick Collins then it's winnable.
+1
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Bills are in real contention for a wildcard spot going into week 15 behind an emerging Brohm, potent rush attack, top 10 D, and top 5 ST unit. Our passing game will be revitalized with the emergence of Nelson and Spiller as well.
Sad thing is, I actually think this is a real possibility. I ultimately think we miss the playoffs mainly because I would expect it will take some time for this team to gel. But, our D, running game, and ST look like they an all have serious potential this year. QB and the O Line are really the biggest wild cards right now. If a QB can emerge and be solid or better in this new offense and the O line can at least be average instead of terrible, then this team could surprise some people this year.
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An equally relevant question -- think how many times our receivers ran routes that didn't simply involve turning around and waiting for the pass? Not very often.
Come on now...I cant tell you how many times we had guys open and in place to make plays where Trent literally just dumped off on some check down. It is no mistake he is nicknamed Capt Checkdown, its because he earned that title. I mean he wouldnt even try and throw to them. Against NE, TO and Lee and the other WR's combined for 5 targets if I am not mistaken or something close to that while Moss and Welker combined for over 30 by themselves.
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Whats with all the Trent threasds today? Did Chan come out and name him the unquestioned starter and I just miss it? I mean, seems like some weak writer wrote an article based on hear say from unidentified sources that Trent was going to be the top of pecking order when camp opens and all of a sudden this board is Trent crazy with threads.
1. No QB has been named the starter.
2. Who ever enters camp at the top of Chans pecking order still is NOT the starter as its still a full on QB competition.
3. Trent was always the guy most likely to enter camp at the top of pecking order anyway and by no means indicates he has won the job. Someone has to be at the top to start camp, but its still anyones job to win.
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Based on these facts I think Trent will start and play well:
In the Nfl if you start and win you get the win, so in Trents case that about evens out based on JP injuries and his. With that:
Trent's win vs loses are
5-4 in 2007
7-7 in 2008
2-5 in 2009
14-16 career win/lose.
Now in those starts he has a career 61.3 completion %.
Now flip a coin on the following games that the defense and special teams help lose:
2007 Cleveland
2008 Cleveland
2009 Cleveland and Monday night meltdown NE.
I kept the Dallas meltdown a lose, because he threw 3 int's.
With these four games he is 18-13 career win/lose and he plays more games.
Also with a weak OL you have to Checkdown in this league. Even with playoff teams OL's Rodgers and Ben got put on thier back 87 times and 143 times respectively over the same three years and Fitz was sacked 59 times over the last two years (he has no 2007 stat's) against Trent's career sacks of just 58.
Now add Chan's coaching and I think he does well.
I know stats are for losers, but is he really a loser or was he in a "No Win" situation and produce well for 3 year guy?
LMAO...dude, Trent was a main reason we lost those games you listed...not to mention, many of those wins you credit him for we got because of our D and ST, not because of Trent who played bad in many of those wins.
Trent has been atrocious in way more games than he has been good in. The completion % is an illusion, just watch the games rather than google stats. He is not very accurate throwing past 10 yards and sees his completion % significantly boosted as a direct result of all the chekdown short throws and screens.
The BIGGEST Bills myth of all time is definitely Trents accuracy. His passes dont hit recievers in stride, often flutter, puts way too much air on med to deeper balls allowing DB's to make plays on the ball or tackle the WR immediately, throws them too high/low/short, etc.
This guy has not been nearly as accurate as people want to believe because his % looks good on paper. All you have to do is stop and think how many times our recievers were able to catch the ball in stride and make plays after the catch...not very often.
Who knows, maybe Chan can help him take a big leap forward, lord knows we need someone too. But, his past performances have shown him to not be very accurate on med to longer throws nor has he demonstrated a good enough ability to read defenses and time his throws.
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This article is a classic example of how easy it is to report whatever you want without having to validate it to be true. I can post the same article claiming players have told me that Troy Brown is top of the pecking order going into camp. It means nothing and cant be proved or disproved. This guy who wrote it is known for gibberish...
I will wait until I hear something from Gailey for one...more importantly though, this will be a full open competition regardless of who is listed atop the initial "pecking order". There has to be someone listed first, and who it is doesnt really mean squat becaue the QB battle will be won and lost during the preseason and camp, not our OTA's.
So, I dont understand the concern about who will be listed first initially, because it ultimately is irrelevant as the battle has just begun for QB1
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4) Brohm has a lot to prove, coming off his record setting junior season in Louisville, and then falling off enough his senior year to cause him to drop into the second round of the draft before Green Bay selected him, a team that already had Aaron Rogers as their established Favre replacement anyway.
Good post, but actually, he did not drop off his Sr. year, it was by far his best year as a QB statistically. Louisville dropped off and finished 6-6 because they no longer had a defense that could stop a high school. Brohm had a couple of bad games trying to force things while playing catch up, but overall he had by far his best statistical season.
He threw for 1000 more yards, 13 more TD's, and raised his comp % from 63.6% to 65.1%. His QB rating did drop a few points because his ints went up from having to play catch up so much, but was still 151.73 and still had 29tds to only 12ints.
The reason his stock fell was because Louisville finished 6-6 and Ryan and Flacco were also shooting up the boards.
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+1
Do we really need to find some obscure stat to make us feel like Edwards is any good ?.
Kelly was cocky and had just as much as an ego to match it. He was vocal (wrong or right) on the fields as well as off.
But he also believed he could win all by himself and never doubted his abilities. He had the fire and will to win and his teammate believed and followed him.
Other than the fact that they both wore the same uniform, they are miles apart.
+1 ^^^what he said exactly^^^
I find it so comical how so many people try and find some pathetic link in some statistical category or playing style of the greats to somehow give Edwards potential or make him look good.
Come on now, its not just about his stats...watch the games. This guy has poor field vision, lacks poise, seen his confidence get shaken big time, terrible timing, checksdown even on 3rd and long, an ugly med to deep game, and doesnt know how to throw to WHERE the reciever will be open in a defense and instead tends to wait until the WR is open (which in the NFL means the WR will no loinger be open upon delivery of the ball).
Does it mean he cant improve...no...but all these threads trying to find statistical comparison to greats like Montana, Kelly, Brees, etc are just terrible. Trent has never had any of that swagger nor their talent. Doesnt mean he cant be turned around and be serviceable, I mean anything is possible. But come on with all these attempts to somehow link him to the greats.
And I get that a player needs time to develop, but Trent not only has not developed yet, but he has progessively gotten worse. I have never seen a guy live on his High School hype more than him. Lets see...
-He hasnt had a single healthy season since High School.
-He has just ONE 300 yard passing game since High School.
-He hasnt been a winner since High School. I mean, his last year at Stanford, they won ONE game and it was the one game he did NOT play in since he was hurt...he played in every other game and they lost each one.
This guy has been a "potential" guy his whole life...he wasnt very productive in College nor did he win a lot of games and has been even worse in the NFL. Thats a long time to just get by on his high school hype because he certainly hasnt done anything impressive at any level since High School.
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Yeah, can we please get back to bashing me? People fighting over what Chan meant when he said XXXXXXX is rediculous.
lol...one, my OP wasnt a bash on you and 100% bash on the reporter
Two...I was shocked to come back to thread and find a page and a half debate on the meaning of Chans words which were pretty obvious to begin with...then again, I dont know why I was shocked considering who it was and the fact it was on this board...lol
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Did I deny that Chan said it? Please point out where I did so I can remove that. Thanks.
And you can say whatever you want, but there is a clear distinction between the two. Jamarcus "made a jump" a few weeks ago when he came into camp ready to fight for his job against Campbell and impressed...then that stopped, he sucked again, and is now in jail. No one went as far as to say he was "showing growth." "Showing growth" implies continuous improvement and expected further development. "He's made a jump" - and more importantly, "We'll have to see how he progresses once we get pads on and all that" - implies no such expectation of further improvement, but more of a cautious optimism of such. If you can't see the difference then I can't help you.
Dude, you are just being argumentive to be argumentive. Its clear as day that Brohm is clearly in the running for the #1 spot and that Chan feels like he has improved as it is well documented. The lame argument over the difference in the words "shown growth" or "made a jump" is comical that it has taken up half a page worth of posts.
Clearly Chan is referring to Brohm and his development when he said he has made a jump, which means the same thing as he has shown growth...but go ahead, keep arguing a pointless point because clearly thats your goal here...
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Just another jack a** reporter shooting off at the mouth because he clearly hasnt followed the Bills QB situation this offseason. The biggest indicator is that he says Brohm and Brown are looking more and more like practice squad material...that alone shows what a jack a** this guy is because if he was REALLY paying attention to the Bills battle he would know that Brohm is very much in the running for the #1 spot and has shown a lot of growth.
I mean, there is literally nothing to this story on any level worth reporting, yet he writes it as if Bufflao is looking to make this trade...
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Since the odds are 1/3 that Brohm will be the starter, you're safe in never being called out on an absolutely ridiculous statement.
I guarantee that if Brohm is named the starter, he won't get anywhere near those numbers. Projecting Pro Bowl numbers for a guy who has started one NFL game & stunk up the Georgia Dome in the process is insane.
There is one way you might be right-If you project the 10 games Brohm starts in the UFL to a 16 game season.
You're either Jeff Brohm or you've lost your mind.
I hear ya...but those would not get him to the Pro Bowl in the AFC even if he does produce those kinds of numbers.
And secondly, its not nearly as unrealistic as you think given Chans track record of what he has been able toget out of his past QB's, mostly QB's with very limited talent.
Like I said, I am no psychic, but I honestly think he has the potential to hit those numbers if he is the week ONE starter and starts the whole season. As I said, I think he will surprise some people...
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totally agree about brohm, except the int count, i'd bump that to b/t 10-14, but still 22 tds 12 ints and 3800 yds isnt too shabby
yeah...10-14 is probably a better estimate on the Int's in his first year...
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Fitz had better control of the team. TO responded better to him. The team as a whole faired better because Fitz was respected, tough, and smart. Does he win in the natural born talent evaluation? No. But does he make the right reads and lead the team? Yes
He may give us our best chance to win next year. Does anyone out there think starting trent or brohm give us a better chance to win? Trent gets hurt, doesnt throw downfield, and lost his job last year. Brohm has less experience at QB then my dog.
Based on last year, I think he gives us a better chance over Trent...however, thats just based on last year...I will wait to see how Trent and Fitz respond to Chans system. Who knows, maybe Chan can teach Trent some balls, and more importantly teach him how to progress through his reads, read defenses, and anticipate routes.
However, I think Brohm is just flat out a better QB prospect than either and I actually believe Brohm will give us a better chance to win even with the limited experience. He may only have one start, but he has also had the time to sit and learn, so its not like a totally inexperienced rookie. I may be wrong on Brohm, but I really do like his potential and think this guy could very well be a good QB in this league and just may surprise some people this season.
Again, only time will tell, I mean I am no psychic...but I just think he has a lot of potential to be good while Fitz and Trent just have low cielings.
I am not afraid to say it right here...I believe that if Brohm starts the full season I think he will throw between 22-25 TD's with 8-12 INT's...in his first year with around 3800 yards...
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I think it would be a great move for the Bills to sign Troy Smith. Considering that Trent is injury prone, it's important that the Bills have three quality players at the QB position (I'm a Trent fan, and I think he's going to get the starting job).
I think you make a really good point about Troy Smith getting sick at the wrong time. The fact of the matter is that he did win the Baltimore starting QB job over Joe Flacco.
I am from Columbus and went to every game that Troy Smith played in. I can tell you that he has the arm strength, poise, and pocket presence to be a successful NFL QB. Whether or not he can read defenses quickly and on a consistent basis is yet to be seen. However, the fact that he won the Baltimore job at one point makes it seem as though he can digest a complicated offense.
He never beat out Flacco...this is just fact, not even an argumentable topic. Worse yet to the delusions of Troy Smith in this thread is the fact that no one seems to acknowledge that despite playing in some games the year PRIOR to Flacco, they still felt he wasnt good enough and then used a FIRST ROUND pick in the next draft on Flacco. Troy was not going to be the starter for Balt and was still battling Boller even...
Flacco was named the week 1 starter because he is the BETTER quarterback and its not even a debateable topic.
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as much as id love for that to happen, i dont think so. age does matter. Freddie HAS been taking hits this whole time. It's not like he was just sitting around for 5 years in a plastic bubble. he HAS been playing football, it does not matter the level. it takes a toll on a body, and as you get older your body loses the ability to recover as quickly and to the point it was before. it's just simple science. we will be LUCKY if FJ is still on the team in 3 years, let alone contributing. again, id love to see it work out that way, but it's bad planning and management to ASSUME it will.
I get what you are saying...but, playing outside the NFL is no where near as violent as the NFL. Not to mention, he hasnt been a starter and has about half the wear and tear of other RB's his age despite being active in football the same amount of time. So, I really see him going strong for 3 more years. I mean he is only 29, but posters want to take yet another year off his career by claiming he is 30. 3 years down the road he will be 32...there have been lots of RB's who have taken twice as wear and tear has him that were very good through 32, so 3 years is really not out of the question and I fully expect him to be able to do it.
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WRONG!...He was named the starter. You have your facts wrong. The tonsillitis opened the door for 1st round pick Flacco and the QB of the future didn't screw it up and kept the job.
Come on...do you even get how rediculous this statement is? Balt is going to play the better QB...they are a SB contending team. If Troy was better than Flacco, he would have beaten him out. So, how on earth did tonsillites lose him his job?
And for all the other people foolishly claiming he lost the job from getting sick...You do realize he got sick just before the THIRD PRESEASON GAME after they ALREADY DRAFTED FLACCO right (not to mention Flacco was already the favorite to win the job to begin with). I mean, its not like Troy got sick and because of that they drafted Flacco. They thought so little of Troy after getting some starts the year before that they went out and used a FIRST ROUND pick on a QB.
Troy had his shot...it was NOT sickness that lost him the job. Flacco was a 1st round pick and the intent was to get him on the field. He beat out Troy because is a far SUPERIOR QB...
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I hear you, but I think it's because he's a young QB who got sick at the wrong time and, thus, really hasn't gotten much of a chance. Bulger is proven and Smith isn't yet. I guess the Ravens didn't want to take a chance that Sal Paolantonio is right.
A lot of us want a proven QB (I've seen the names Garcia & Campbell thrown around in this thread), but that QB comes at a price. It won't happen.
I can see this Troy Smith thing happening. He's saying the right things, but you have to believe he's not happy being relegated to the 3rd QB w/o being given much of a shot. Perhaps he needs the right offense? Hard to say, IMO. I wouldn't be surprised to see a trade for Smith, Brown being sent to the PS, and one of Edwards/Brohm being shown the door.
Ok wait...you think Troy wasnt given much of a shot, yet you want to show Brohm the door before giving him a shot? I find it so ironic when you and others say this because if Troy gets cut he essentially is traveling almost the exact path of Brohm where they have an entrenched starter and couldnt win the back up role. The difference is Brohm has a better NFL QB pedigre, was more highly regarded coming out, and had just 1-1/2 years in the league before we got him...not to mention Troy actually had a shot to play in Balt and wasnt impressive enough to keep Balt from drafting Flacco.
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errr 29 years old, will be one month shy of 30 by seasons end.
So, he is 29, not 30. Not to mention he has very little wear on his body for a 29 year old RB. Its not the age that causes the RB to slow down. Turning 30 doesnt make him run slower. What has been the achilles heal of 30 year old RB's has been all the pounding they have taken in the big and fast NFL for 8 or 9 years by the time they reach that age in an NFL career. That abuse is what breaks them down sooner than say a WR who often flourish into their mid 30's.
So many people are attached to this magic number for RB's as if its genetics...lol. FJ will be a good RB and be able to be productive for probably at least 3 more years, maybe more.
Trent Edwards vs. Drew Brees
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Lets see, how can we bring people back to reality once again...
1. SD had no one to throw to in his early years...Gates didnt break out until 2004, coincidentally the same year Brees broke out. Trent has had Evans and even a year with both Evans and TO.
2. Brees was a highly touted prospect coming out of college and very succesful at Purdue, Trent didnt even win a game his last year at Stanford and had one 300 yard passing game in all of college.
More importantly, lets look at a couple of things that your stat totals dont show during Brees first 3 years and Trents first 3 years. during that time, Drew had 27 starts and Trent has 30...so, not only are these below better for Brees, but he did them in 3 less games.
300 yard games
Brees - 5, +1 more with 296 yards
Trent - ZERO
Multiple TD games:
Brees - 9
Trent - 5
Total TD's
Brees - 29
Trent - 24
The point is, Brees at least had some games that showed potential and he did it with no talent at WR or TE (remember Gates didnt break out until 2004, the same year Brees did), where Trents best games were average at best. Trents greatest claim to fame and potential was the 4-0 start we had. The truth behind that is that he only played well in the Sea game week 1 and struggled most of the time in the games against Rams, Oak, and Jax (all 4 were amongst the worst in the NFL). He gets so much credit for those 3 comeback wins where in 2 of them they were made possible by plays from Mitchell, the ST, and Lynch, not Trent.
At no point has Trent ever taken command of a game. At no point since high school has Trent done anything on the field in any game that has demonstrated anything remotely close to Brees.
Its amazing how many great QB's this guy gets compared to on this board yet he wasnt even a good college QB let alone a good NFL QB.