Captain Caveman

I don't know why you feel the need to belittle or insult people with opposing viewpoints, but it sucks. I think I've been pretty respectful so far. I disagree strongly that scholarship reductions punishes USC but not the kids. You're talking about taking away a free education for multiple students, I think there should be a greater value on that than playing in a bowl game. I didn't say that every (or any) "football player is an a**hole or a spoiled idiot." I said that USC broke the rules and is being punished. And if you think the kids are being punished more than the school, I disagree. The school will lose millions of dollars. I don't think NFL teams will penalize them for not playing in bowls. Maybe we disagree there. My viewpoint is that the school ignored rule violations to make money. Sure, you can punish some of the individuals (e.g. coaches) who are still in college athletics, but it doesn't prevent the school from going out and hiring new rule-breakers who will continue to break and bend rules when it's to their advantage. We disagree. I'm moving on.

Even if players are only watching ESPN, there has been plenty reported on this. http://search.espn.go.com/usc-investigation/past-years/22

I didn't mention anything about what college coaches tell kids. These are college bound student athletes, right? If they don't have the wherewithal to do a tiny bit of investigating on their own, then I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. I'm not talking about what a coach tells you who obviously has ulterior motives, I'm talking about reports that have been in newspapers, and on other "news" outlets (e.g. espn, etc...) for years.

If I come across as bitter it's not because I have any failed dreams of college glory. I never played football (I was a hockey man.) I do get pissed at Universities that constantly break NCAA rules without punishment. In this case, I think the punishment pretty much fits the crime. I still haven't seen you propose anything realistic or fair. So what's your solution? Impose no punishment? Say, hey guys you screwed up, and made millions off it (to some extent off of other schools) but no big deal? You won a national championship with a player who should have been ineligible, don't worry about it? The NCAA is out to punish the University, not the players. Unfortunately the players also get punished. Finally, you make it sound like these players have to sit on their ass for two years. They still get to play football. They still get a free college education. They still get to audition for NFL scouts. They miss two bowl games. Get over it.

To everybody who is complaining that Carroll gets away without punishment, what exactly would you do? What can they do? I think he's a dirtbag, and I wish there was some way to make him feel some of this, but I don't see how it's possible, other than a possible lawsuit by USC to recover some of his salary (very unlikely to succeed.) His punishment will come when he's labeled as an NFL failure. With that said, USC knew Carroll was a dirtbag, they knew people were breaking the rules, and they looked the other way (or possibly covered things up.) They did this because the football team generates a buttload of money. They deserve to be punished, and taking away their postseason opportunities does exactly this. For the players who are there now, it sucks, but maybe they should have read the newspapers before committing to USC. This investigation and allegations have been around for years. The players don't get to play in a bowl game, and that sucks. But USC deserves to lose the large amount of money and prestige that would be gained by playing bowl games for the next two years. There's a lesson to be learned, which is don't hire dirtbags. Good luck with Lane Kiffin.

In College Athletics, the school (Dean) and athletic director are responsible for the compliance of all of the athletic programs. So a coach leaving really doesn't change anything.

I also don't see much incentive to go on with replacement players if the owners are still getting their TV money.

I saw game rewind mentioned a couple of times, I had this last year and it was a complete waste of money. The games aren't available until midnight (Sunday night) which means I couldn't watch until Monday. And since it was just about impossible to not know how poorly the Bills played before Monday, I watched only a couple of games using this service.

Ford isn't running. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/02/opinion/02ford2.html

Your avatar is totally freaking me out. Totally. Is that the human Philly Fanatic?

BS, you've shown here that you'll argue anything and with anyone. Stop crying. Edit: I just read the rest of this thread. I guess you already did argue with everyone and everyone. And you'll be crying alone, or at least not on this board.

Seriously, did you even read the post? This was not voted on by AP writers. The AP organizes the vote, and the AP decided that a revote was in order. I'm really tired of people constantly bitching and moaning without taking the time to understand the issue.

Did you read any of the other posts? Did jw have a vote? - no Was the vote limited to AP writers? - no So you should probably stop attacking him. Also, it's spelled "credibility", and if you'd like to keep any you should think before you post.

Edit: I should have said that there are a lot fewer rookie millionaires in the NHL. There aren't too many twenty year olds in the NFL period. The point remains, the pay structure for NHL rookies is highly regulated, vs. the NFL with no rookie cap.

There are a lot fewer 20 year old NHL millionaires than there are 20 year old NFL millionaires. I would also say that the amount of parental involvement required for a child to play organized hockey probably impacts the numbers. A parent has to really care about his kid for that kid to play hockey (it's expensive, and can be a huge time commitment.)

Wait, did we draft a QB #9?

He's been right often enough that I'm thinking he'll get some slack if wrong, at least from those of us who have been paying attention in the last year.

You guys know what this means: 1st round DB for the Bills.

Because he wasn't charged with a crime in the Nevada case. And he's innocent until proven guilty in this case. I think what PK was trying to get at is that at the very least, Ben is guilty of bad judgment, and if so, he needs to grow up. If he's guilty of sexual assault, then he needs to be incarcerated.

Yup. He showed some good flashes last year. I have a feeling he'll catch on with someone and do alright for himself.

turrible.

I think he's got a good shot, but it will take a while.

I think you've gotten lots of good advice here so far. Sports are a small part of life, and I think that should be part of the lesson. My father asked me to watch some games with him about twenty years ago, and I still look forward to calling him on Sunday evenings to talk about the Bills, even when there isn't much good to discuss. It can be a great bonding experience. As for the players who don't seem to share your values, I think it can be another learning experience. In the end, most of the guys who break laws end up being punished. They may have more perks and get a few more chances than most people would, but that's real life. Guys with exceptional money or talent tend to get away with more.

Once again DarthICE reaches to be really, really, wrong.

Daughters and the sons....