Punch

Aaah, he didn't list them correctly, but he's right.

Me too. What's this now?

Yes, because they are a great franchise that consistently wins. Don't you want to be measured that way?

In my experience (in Northern VA) Spygate looms large in the minds of fans of other teams. Personally, I started hating the Patriots long before they were caught cheating, and it was because they were suffocatingly dominant. I actually rooted for them in the Super Bowl against the Rams and felt it was a great story. That feeling quickly dissipated. It's hard to say, though. The petulance and whining wasn't evident right away. I think the tantrums came along because they expect to win like a spoiled child expects to get the toy he/she wants. Maybe it's all so intertwined that it's difficult to split hairs at this point. Anyway, !@#$'em. EDIT: I should add, the Packers, Steelers, Giants et al have not dominated even remotely as the Pats have dominated. 3 Super Bowl wins in 4 years to begin their dynasty is more dominant than any team since the AFL-NFL merger.

Does that tarnish their run though? Or does it merely mean that arguably it's over?

Well, yes. I was being sarcastic.

Everyone outside of New England hates them because they win. And then they were caught for cheating, but they still win. The fact that they are petulant babies is, at best, the 3rd best reason to hate them.

It would suck to have success measured only by Super Bowl wins.

Aside from 76* regular season games and 5 playoff games? You're right, nuthin'. *an average of 12.7/year over 6 years.

Although I sort of agree, I think it's obvious why--- a player the Bills have been tied to in several mock drafts at a position of desperate need has been accused by the media of essentially being a sociopath (though this is likely not the case). In light of the Bills' season being over, the new coach and staff being hired--- that's pretty relevant, no?

They will be remembered as the dominant franchise of this era. Some will (perhaps rightfully) assign an asterisk to their accomplishmets, but it will not be be the prevailing view. Does a dynasty last forever? The 49ers eventually slowed down but it didn't taint them.

Only one season in that span did the Bills not play the AFC representative (2008 Steelers). Of the remaining 5 seasons, the Bills lost to each team except the 2009 season finale against the Colts, where Indy rested many of their starters in the 2nd half: 2006: Colts 17-16 2007: Patriots 38-7, 56-10 2008: DNP the Steelers 2009: Colts 7-30 2010: Steelers 19-16 OT 2011: Patriots 31-34, 49-21

"Considered a #1 pick by the time of the draft" to me was in reference to the mock drafters ad commentators. His "stock" does appear to be rising.

You suggested that Notre Dame would likely not stage a press conference defending Te'o if their investigation(s) did not obtain hard evidence, such as specifics regarding receipts for the flowers and Manti's phone records. This has proven to not be the case. Their investigation was farcical at best. Yet you are now convinced. I was only asking why. "Complicit on some level" is rather obvious: at what point did he believe the lie and to what extent did he embellish the relationship. I know he acknowledged embellishment, but the Jim Rome interview is extraordinarily unsettling, for example, if he did not have those phone conversations. Obviously, as you say, the psychology typical of a catfishing victim could cause him to build these things up in his mind. Perhaps that is the final verdict, after all. I have nothing at stake, in fact I was clearly very ready to believe him as I understand the plausibility of his stated case. Your first paragraph is exactly the type of "proof" you suggested earlier in the thread would be insufficient. The hoaxer has not actually come forward yet. The apologetic tweet is suspect at best, although it could prove to be legitimate. I guess as a casual fan, I'd ask why you're in such a rush to declare his innocence with no actual evidence, aside from hearsay. Honestly, I'm fatigued by this whole story. Perhaps it is best to not go further down the rabbit hole.

Did Dan Patrick "report" it, as in it was based on sourced inside information? Or was he merely giving his opinion? He's no longer a reporter so much as an editorializer these days.

Obviously, the statistics from that game (or any game, for that matter) are not simply a 1-to-1 comparison. Nassib played with the lead for the entire game. His passing numbers are pedestrian, but Syracuse was not in a passing mode for the majority of the game. Regardless, I would not argue that he had a great game. Geno Smith never got anything going. Syracuse's defense is better than WVU's, which isn't saying much, but there was never really a threat to the Orange's lead. He looked a little rattled and couldn't elevate the play of his teammates. Is that fair? Probably not, but it's hard to say considering we look at intangibles such as "leadership" when evaluating a QB prospect. I would not argue that Geno Smith's struggles in the Pinstripe Bowl define either his leadership abilities or talent. I've told you before in this thread, I wouldn't hate Geno Smith at 8. I might even love it. Nassib intrigues me as well, but maybe 8 is too high. Hopefully we'll get a better hint of where NFL talent evaluators see these 2 QBs in the coming weeks to give these threads more grist to mill.

I myself am still leaning toward Te'o as victim, even though there are many sketchy details--- clearly, I know what catfishing is and belive completely in the plausibility of this scenario. But I am curious why you're taking such a strong "nothing to see here folks, move along" stance, especially considering you yourself were in complete agreement with San Jose Bills Fan earlier in the thread--- that the questions he continues to pose needed to be answered for Te'o to be cleared, ie, phone records, proof flowers were sent, etc? Obviously, none of those questions were even asked by any of the investigators, which included the very media that slipped up in the first place. I don't want to attack the guy at all, but very little has changed in regards to "proof" Manti was not complicit at least on some level. Continuing skepticism does not need to equate to attacks on Manti Te'o.

Were there any other differences between the 2010 Panthers offense and the 2011-12 Panthers offense? I can think of at least one. For the record, Carolina's offense started the 2012 season as an absolute tire fire although they did eventually right the ship. In addition to the "no stone left unturned" comment, they also said in the same press conference that they would hire the right guy as soon as they identified him. Arians, Fangio, Roman, Bradley, and Bevell were all still coaching in the Wild Card playoff weekend. The Bills met with Marrone as many as 4 times. If Marrone didn't impress, it is possible the candidates still coaching wpuld have been interviewed. Do you know for certain this would not have been the case? My only beef with this argument is that it requires mental gymnastics to make it work. They said they'd hire the right man for the job when they identified him. They interviewed several candidates. Then they hired a guy. If Marrone isn't the right coach, we'll know very soon.

Just a little joke based on what has been written in this thread.

He's only saying that because he shares an agent with Marrone.

Colts punter Pat McAfee was nearly "catfished" via twitter a few years ago: http://deadspin.com/5977360/colts-punter-pat-mcafee-nearly-got-catfished-too-but-realized-he-wasnt-famous-enough-for-groupies

Assuming everything happened as Te'o alleges, isn't it possible that the woman he was on the phone with also developed legitimate feelings for him? And yes, these "catfish" relationships are typically as complex as the scenario outlined by Te'o.

Oh great, another inexperienced Syracuse crony hire!! Wait, what...?

WVU was down 26-7 with 5 minutes left in the 3rd Q when Geno threw his 2nd TD pass--- his stats were not great in that game, but a lot of them were accrued arguably in garbage time. Having said that, I wouldn't hate drafting him, even at 8. His brains, accuracy and athleticism are all big pluses. But there are plenty of question marks, and his Pinstripe Bowl performance didn't answer them.

What's the deal with this twitter "apology"? It is from the same account that tweeted the following: 3 days ago – It isn't fair to drag Reagan and Troy into this. a lot of truths and myths need to be addressed here, and they will be at noon PST tomorrow 2 days ago – My statement: This is incredibly embarrassing to talk about, but I have been told by Alabama's offense that Manti Te'o is not real. Why would Tuiasosopo apologize to Te'o and then tweet what is obviously a joke tweet, mocking him? Both of the above tweets were linked in this thread when posted, and both have been deleted. The twitter apology, per ESPN: (FWIW, one of the co-authors of the Deadspin article believes the below image has been photoshopped and it is not possible to send a Direct Message via twitter to another user that does not follow you--- Te'o does not follow the account @LennayKay. Deadspin will post a new article soon.)