BillsVet Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Actually, it's typically 11 to 15 yards. But, since we're pals, I'll spot you another 5 to 10. BTW, this is no criticism of Donte. The corners were playing well off too. Drafted as a SS but has been switched to FS for this fourth full season. When top 10 picks change positions, it's not usually a good moment in their careers. That is, unless you think Bryan Scott is another Troy Polamalu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Drafted as a SS but has been switched to FS for this fourth full season. When top 10 picks change positions, it's not usually a good moment in their careers. That is, unless you think Bryan Scott is another Troy Polamalu. Yup, versatility is such a bad thing to have. Who would ever want a player that can play both safety positions and CB? And the switch to FS had less to do with donte and a whole lot more to do with who is starting alongside him. Whitner/Scott is a much stronger Safety combo than Whitner/Simpson or Whitner/Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Yup, versatility is such a bad thing to have. Who would ever want a player that can play both safety positions and CB? And the switch to FS had less to do with donte and a whole lot more to do with who is starting alongside him. Whitner/Scott is a much stronger Safety combo than Whitner/Simpson or Whitner/Wilson. Sorry, are you saying that if the Ravens had a really good back-up at FS and lack a decent SS that Ed Reed would move to the SS spot for a better tandem? You know... the excuse factory for this guy is really amazing. I'm still giving him a year, but I think he should have been cut this year if we had a valid FS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Sorry, are you saying that if the Ravens had a really good back-up at FS and lack a decent SS that Ed Reed would move to the SS spot for a better tandem? You know... the excuse factory for this guy is really amazing. I'm still giving him a year, but I think he should have been cut this year if we had a valid FS. Cutting this guy is the absolute last thing this front office should do. If he goes, the safety position suddenly becomes one of "need." Which means that the front office would throw a top-10 pick at it, even if the pick is a reach, and even if it means denying the lines of the talent they absolutely must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Explain to me what Haloti Ngata has to do with Donte Whitner. If you can manage that, please explain to me how the Bills and the Ravens run similar systems and have similar talent levels. The Bills passed on one for the other, when 99% of the football world would have done the opposite. The Bills and Ravens have similar systems, and that is the point. The Ravens routinely have a superb front 7 while the Bills routinely draft DBs. The problem is that average DBs look great with a great front 7, while great DBs look average with an average front 7. The Ravens have it figured out, you see Ed Reed, the best safety in the game, would be nothing without the Ngatas and Suggs the Ravens have. Donte may be an Ed reed for another team.... too bad he isnt on another team then huh. Without a D line all the DBs in the world wont get you a good D. We put the cart before the horse by taking a S before a DT, and there is no argument for the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Cutting this guy is the absolute last thing this front office should do. If he goes, the safety position suddenly becomes one of "need." Which means that the front office would throw a top-10 pick at it, even if the pick is a reach, and even if it means denying the lines of the talent they absolutely must have. Are you reffering to the Byrd pick? Seems to me Scott is our starter at SS, while Whitner and Byrd are both at FS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Cutting this guy is the absolute last thing this front office should do. If he goes, the safety position suddenly becomes one of "need." Which means that the front office would throw a top-10 pick at it, even if the pick is a reach, and even if it means denying the lines of the talent they absolutely must have. I said "if" they had a valid replacement. But you are right, they would find a way to throw away another pick for safety. Oh, and this applies to everyone who says you can't compare Ngata to Whitner, get real. He would have been ours and used to blow up offensive lines. Instead we get a guy who lacks playing speed and can't play the ball in coverage. The guy is above average in tackling RBs, and below average in coverage unless you count playing off the ball by 5 yards and tackling a valid way of playing the secondary every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bananathumb Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I said "if" they had a valid replacement. But you are right, they would find a way to throw away another pick for safety. Oh, and this applies to everyone who says you can't compare Ngata to Whitner, get real. He would have been ours and used to blow up offensive lines. Instead we get a guy who lacks playing speed and can't play the ball in coverage. The guy is above average in tackling RBs, and below average in coverage unless you count playing off the ball by 5 yards and tackling a valid way of playing the secondary every time. Big Ngata apparently made an interception against the Jets last night and ran it back for a TD. (When is the last time lil Donte has done that for us?) Oh yeah, Haloti is also good against the run. Great pick, Marv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Big Ngata apparently made an interception against the Jets last night and ran it back for a TD. (When is the last time lil Donte has done that for us?) Oh yeah, Haloti is also good against the run. Great pick, Marv. This is only the beginning. I remember wanting to do cartwheels when Ngata was still on the board and then the Bills picked someone I literally had never even heard of. Though to be fair, it's not Whitner's fault that the Bills were epically stupid enough to pick him at #8 overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 The Bills passed on one for the other, when 99% of the football world would have done the opposite. The Bills and Ravens have similar systems, and that is the point. The Ravens routinely have a superb front 7 while the Bills routinely draft DBs. The problem is that average DBs look great with a great front 7, while great DBs look average with an average front 7. The Ravens have it figured out, you see Ed Reed, the best safety in the game, would be nothing without the Ngatas and Suggs the Ravens have. Donte may be an Ed reed for another team.... too bad he isnt on another team then huh. Without a D line all the DBs in the world wont get you a good D. We put the cart before the horse by taking a S before a DT, and there is no argument for the contrary. Yup, the Bills passive Tampa-2 defense is extremely similar to the Ravens attacking 3-4. And again, please explain to me how it is donte whitner's fault that the Bills took him instead of Ngata. Or how it is Donte Whitner's fault that 99% of the NFL would have taken a DT. Or how it is Donte Whitner's fault that "we put the cart before the horse?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 Yup, the Bills passive Tampa-2 defense is extremely similar to the Ravens attacking 3-4. And again, please explain to me how it is donte whitner's fault that the Bills took him instead of Ngata. Or how it is Donte Whitner's fault that 99% of the NFL would have taken a DT. Or how it is Donte Whitner's fault that "we put the cart before the horse?" Yeah, that was a head scratcher to me too. Ramius, that quote from Tim Graham couldn't be more off to me. That means that a MLB with no interior D Line is at less of a disadvantage? I think when you try to look at those things qualitatively they sound good, but the truth is that it's completely biased. Gren Bay and St. Louis struggled to put pressure on the QB last year too but Collins and Atogwe were at the top of the NFL in INT's. Buffalo was ranked 14th in total D, St. Louis was 28th and GB was 20th. So much for "It's the guys in front of you" theory. Great playmakers do not need help around them to make plays. Does it help? Sure, but after 3 years, instincts and anticipation should kick in and Donte has shown neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoring is not hardy Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I willing to bet that a lot of these posters that just knew passing on Ngata was such a big mistake were also screaming to trade up for the can't miss Robert Gallery, or Vernon Gholston. Obviously it's a little different because we had an opportunity at our spot, to get Ngata, and we passed. It's just too convenient to say I liked this guy, he's now great, and we picked someone who is not as good. I'm sure there are guys that we all have loved, that have turned out to be complete busts, but no one mentions those. We could have done much worse than Donte Whitner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Donte: talks like a NUMBER 8 pick, plays like a ROUND 8 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'64 Bills Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 The reason I ask is because this seems to be a topic that comes up all of the time with my friends. He is as polarizing as JP and Flutie were but he is a SAFETY! So I am looking for my fellow TBD'ers to settle this for my friends and I. And please, save the, "Why does it have to be pro or anti?" Because, everyone I talk to and read on these message boards seems to have a very strong opinion on him either way. Me personally, I wish I saw what other Pro D's see but I think he is limited. I think Anti D crowd has to get over the fact that we passed on Ngata (When Ngata scored yesterday I got about 4 phone calls saying, "HE SHOULD BE OURS!") But I think you call a spade a spade, he is small, limited in coverage and is simply just not an impact player at all. He is an average safety. I applaud your sense of reality - -it is what it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I willing to bet that a lot of these posters that just knew passing on Ngata was such a big mistake were also screaming to trade up for the can't miss Robert Gallery, or Vernon Gholston. Obviously it's a little different because we had an opportunity at our spot, to get Ngata, and we passed. It's just too convenient to say I liked this guy, he's now great, and we picked someone who is not as good. I'm sure there are guys that we all have loved, that have turned out to be complete busts, but no one mentions those. We could have done much worse than Donte Whitner. If that's your defense, you don't have a defense. I don't remember anyone clamoring we move up in droves, just a few idiots. I do remember most of Bill-dom wanting Ngata this year, and Orakpo, Oher or Ayers this year. Do you think that the majority of this board has been more right than the front office on our 1st rounders? I say yes. Pay attention, I said the majority, not a few big-mouths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zazie Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 The Bills passed on one for the other, when 99% of the football world would have done the opposite. The Bills and Ravens have similar systems, and that is the point. The Ravens routinely have a superb front 7 while the Bills routinely draft DBs. The problem is that average DBs look great with a great front 7, while great DBs look average with an average front 7. The Ravens have it figured out, you see Ed Reed, the best safety in the game, would be nothing without the Ngatas and Suggs the Ravens have. Donte may be an Ed reed for another team.... too bad he isnt on another team then huh. Without a D line all the DBs in the world wont get you a good D. We put the cart before the horse by taking a S before a DT, and there is no argument for the contrary. Perfect point and the Bills did exactly the same thing this last draft, foregoing Brown for Byrd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I hated Whitner more with every play Ngata made against the Jets last night. Exactly. Ans the Bills took McCargo and actually traded up for him. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 The Bills passed on one for the other, when 99% of the football world would have done the opposite. The Bills and Ravens have similar systems, and that is the point. The Ravens routinely have a superb front 7 while the Bills routinely draft DBs. The problem is that average DBs look great with a great front 7, while great DBs look average with an average front 7. The Ravens have it figured out, you see Ed Reed, the best safety in the game, would be nothing without the Ngatas and Suggs the Ravens have. Donte may be an Ed reed for another team.... too bad he isnt on another team then huh. Without a D line all the DBs in the world wont get you a good D. We put the cart before the horse by taking a S before a DT, and there is no argument for the contrary. Don't say the Bills draft a lot of DBs. Some people here don't like that. Even though they do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cocktosten Posted August 27, 2009 Author Share Posted August 27, 2009 By the logic of the "Pro" Donte crowd and Tim Graham (Donte sucks because everyone else around him sucks), we can expect another year of no forced turnovers or big plays of any kind. I wonder how many "fence sitters" there will be next year when he has another average year? Will there be a spot on the team for him if Byrd turns out to be a solid player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 Are you reffering to the Byrd pick? Seems to me Scott is our starter at SS, while Whitner and Byrd are both at FS? Scott and Whitner are both on the field because they are our two best options right now. Scott is at FS because he can't really play SS. Once Byrd is ready to start, Donte will most likely move back to SS, Byrd will play FS, and Scott will ride the bench. Whitner's being moved because it gives the team the best chance to win, it's not a knock on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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