After being 5-1 last season, did you think the AFC east was ours?

[ChasBB]

Where did you get that from? Did Ralph Wilson tell you personally that he will eat two years of Dicks contract if we don't make the playoffs? I could see this team going 7-9 and keeping Jauron. There never was a $4 million dollar playoffs or bust guarantee.

No chance DJ is here after another 7-9 season. Ralph doesn't have to say it. If he wants to sell another ticket, he knows what would have to be done in that situation. Hope it doesn't come to that. Hope DJ makes a very deep playoff run.

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

No chance DJ is here after another 7-9 season. Ralph doesn't have to say it. If he wants to sell another ticket, he knows what would have to be done in that situation. Hope it doesn't come to that. Hope DJ makes a very deep playoff run.

 

I would hate to see it come down to another 7-9 season, but a lot of people are acting like there is some sort of guarantee that dick must produce a winning season "or else." The fact is that one man will make the decision if Dick stays or goes. In order to fire Dick after this season, he will have to eat $4 mil. and shell out the salary for a new coach. Does Ralph's track record indicate that this is a likely scenario? I think not.

[ChasBB]

I would hate to see it come down to another 7-9 season, but a lot of people are acting like there is some sort of guarantee that dick must produce a winning season "or else." The fact is that one man will make the decision if Dick stays or goes. In order to fire Dick after this season, he will have to eat $4 mil. and shell out the salary for a new coach. Does Ralph's track record indicate that this is a likely scenario? I think not.

I hear what you're saying. Ralph would certainly be adverse to eating any salary, but he would have to weigh eating 2 years of Jauron's salary vs. alienating 90% of the fan base.

[Cynical]

I would hate to see it come down to another 7-9 season, but a lot of people are acting like there is some sort of guarantee that dick must produce a winning season "or else." The fact is that one man will make the decision if Dick stays or goes. In order to fire Dick after this season, he will have to eat $4 mil. and shell out the salary for a new coach. Does Ralph's track record indicate that this is a likely scenario? I think not.

 

It will be easier to pay two contracts when the stadium is full than it will be to pay for one when the stadium is less than half full.

[ganesh]

Honestly YES...because we had swept the Jets and Fins the previous season....Plus we had home games against Cleveland and San Francisco.......I was pretty sure we would be 11-5 or 12-4......Damn......

[spartacus]

I hear what you're saying. Ralph would certainly be adverse to eating any salary, but he would have to weigh eating 2 years of Jauron's salary vs. alienating 90% of the fan base.

Bills fans are suckers.

 

Ralph pissed off 90% of the fan base this year by keeping Dick.

 

He signed TO to a one year deal and the fans not only gave him a pass on Dickie boy but are out in droves setting season ticket sales records.

 

Ralph is no dummie - if he sells out the stadium after Dick goes 2-8 and 0-6 in division after 2008- he has free reign to pretty much keep Dick for this contract AND give him an extension. Performance on the field does not matter at all. Money in the bank does.

[ChasBB]

Bills fans are suckers.

 

Ralph pissed off 90% of the fan base this year by keeping Dick.

 

He signed TO to a one year deal and the fans not only gave him a pass on Dickie boy but are out in droves setting season ticket sales records.

 

Ralph is no dummie - if he sells out the stadium after Dick goes 2-8 and 0-6 in division after 2008- he has free reign to pretty much keep Dick for this contract AND give him an extension. Performance on the field does not matter at all. Money in the bank does.

There's one weakness in your argument -- as big of a bean counter that Ralph is, I think he really does want to win a Super Bowl. I think he still thinks Jauron can get it done with better players. But I think his patience with DJ runs out after this season if DJ doesn't get it done.

[VJ91]

Hey Skooby, let me save you the trouble of starting some new "what if" threads:

 

Here are 13 answers for you:

1. What would have happened if Fergy played on a good ankle against SD in the 1981 playoff game? What if that game was in Buffalo had the tie-breaker system considered that we beat SD head-to-head during the seaon? Would Buffalo had appeared in the Super Bowl sooner?....[i]YES. They blew out the SB Champion Raiders 24-3 at home earlier that great 1980 season. And the Raiders beat the extremely beatable Eagles that year. That ankle injury in my opinion, was the only thing stopping the Bills from being SB Champions in 1980-81.

[/i]

2. What would have happened in Miami's perfect season if Mercury Morris' fumble against the Bills actually been ruled a fumble instead of a dead ball? No perfect season for the Dolphins and no 20-game winning steak for the Dolphins against the Bills....That may have ended the Dolphins' perfect season, but it would not have stopped the Dolphins from winning their two straight SB's.

3. What if Ralph and Lou could see eye-to-eye? He could've been our Tom Landry, Don Shula, or Chuck Knoll and taken us to many championships...Impossible. Nobody could see eye to eye with Lou Saban. He quit jobs sometimes before he even started working them over the years.

 

4. What if Ryan Lindell doesn't miss a couple of key kicks the past few seasons effectively ending our playoff hopes at least two of the last three seasons?....I cannot blame Lindell for the ineptness of the entire organization these last "2 or 3 years."

 

5. What if Ronnie Harmon catches that pass in the end zone against the Browns?...The Bills win that game, and go on to play in the Divisional round the next week. Beyond that, it is hard to predict the Bills of the "Bickering Bills" 1989 season going deeper then that.

6. What if the Music City Miracle was ruled a forward lateral? Do we return to the Super Bowl?....Yes. That was a great defensive team with a strong running game. RJ had led them to the winning field goal, which would have given him plenty of confidence to manage the next playoff games into the SB.

 

7. What if Ralph & Bill Polian could see eye-to-eye? Our star GM would still be here instead of with the Colts....Now that one hurts the most, outside of some of those teams above winning a SB. Who knows how many SB's the Bills would have won the past 17 years since Polian left, if he had stayed and been promoted to President of Football Operations.

8. What if Jauron knew when to use the red flag and when not to?....His Bills would have won a few more games.

9. What if Jauron had some balls now & then to go for it on 4th down?....His Bills might have won a few more games, or, they would have called stupid plays and lost the ball on downs every time and still lost those games.???

10. What if our Super Bowl teams actually reduced their partying for a couple of weeks leading up to the big game?....The Bills did not party any more or less then any other SB teams in the history of the game. Those are just rumors, and I don't believe them anyway.

 

11. What if James Lofton falls to us in the 1978 draft instead of Green Bay?....Based on his few years at the end of his career he spent with the Bills, he could have set records that Andre Reed and Lee Evans may never have broken.

12. What if Ralph didn't let Ahmad Rashad get away after 1975, thus earning the "cheap-skate" label?....He also let some key players on defense go from that great O.J. era, and this was 20 years before free agency was around. Ralph earned the cheap skate label honestly. If he would have not traded or cut those players, and let Saban bring in some better players around them, maybe, with Simpson in his prime, the Bills could have won a SB before Saban's wonderlust hit and he quit again......maybe.

 

13. What if we actually paid coaches a competitive salary in line with most of the rest of the league?....Easy answer. Better coaches would have always coached in Buffalo, and who knows how many championships that could have translated into?

 

Here's an interesting story you may or may not have heard: After the Bills bottomed out under Jim Ringo in 1977, Wilson actually decided to hire a real proven NFL coach, and brought Chuck Knox in here for 5 years. Knox was a proven NFL head coach for the high profile L.A. Rams, and everyone in Buffalo was thrilled. Guess who would have loved to inerview for the Bills job but did not get the chance to? BILL WALSH. That's right, I read in a Bills book (I think it was "Relentless"), that Walsh was quoted as saying he would have been extremely interested to speak with Ralph about the opening, but knew he had little chance because he had only coached in college up to that point, and knew Wilson was looking for a proven commodity. Can you say" "East Coast Offense"???

 

OK, any chance we can focus on the 2009 season?

 

I'd rather focus on the upcoming season. Edwards is our QB, Brandon is our GM, Jauron is our HC. This is 2009 and asking all of these "what if" questions is meaningless. Imagine how one, just ONE Super Bowl victory makes all of these painful memories pale! I like how the 2009 Bills are coming together. There's no reason this is not a playoff team and we all know DJ is gone if it's not a playoff team. This is likely the only year we get to have TO on our roster. This is the year we return to the playoffs -- and once there anything can happen.

 

 

Coming back to the present: I only predict that 2009 will not be boring. I have no confidence in Jauron and his staff that he can bring all of this together and even snag that 6th spot in the AFC. On the other hand, the Bills seem to have enough talent to make a Dolphins-like run and maybe even steal the AFC East. I've been a Bills & NFL fan for over 40 years, and I don't have a clue how this team will finish!

[Charles Romes]

I allowed myself to dream when we were 6-1 with a touchdown plus second half lead about to close out the Dolphins.

 

Then Edwards, who had shown signs of being a guy who became better in the clutch suddenly became a guy who wilted under pressure.

 

Watching Denny and Kelsay act as dance partners to the Jets OL the following week brought me down to earth, though I still had hope that the historically easy schedule would bring a winning season.

[Hossage]

I thought we would go 0 and 6 in the AFC East. That didnt make it any easier to stomach.

[ChasBB]

Here's an interesting story you may or may not have heard: After the Bills bottomed out under Jim Ringo in 1977, Wilson actually decided to hire a real proven NFL coach, and brought Chuck Knox in here for 5 years. Knox was a proven NFL head coach for the high profile L.A. Rams, and everyone in Buffalo was thrilled. Guess who would have loved to inerview for the Bills job but did not get the chance to? BILL WALSH. That's right, I read in a Bills book (I think it was "Relentless"), that Walsh was quoted as saying he would have been extremely interested to speak with Ralph about the opening, but knew he had little chance because he had only coached in college up to that point, and knew Wilson was looking for a proven commodity. Can you say" "East Coast Offense"???

 

 

Coming back to the present: I only predict that 2009 will not be boring. I have no confidence in Jauron and his staff that he can bring all of this together and even snag that 6th spot in the AFC. On the other hand, the Bills seem to have enough talent to make a Dolphins-like run and maybe even steal the AFC East. I've been a Bills & NFL fan for over 40 years, and I don't have a clue how this team will finish!

Wow, could have had Bill Walsh! I never heard that story -- thanks for sharing. I also enjoyed your "answers" even though my questions were rhetorical and intended to make pointless the "what if" claims. Good points you make all over!

[Ice Cold Bruschi]

I felt like it was ours, but we got unlucky on the tiebreakers, otherwise I'd be right

[Orton's Arm]

Did you fall for it? Playoffs or bust?

I didn't fall for it. The teams we beat en route to that 5-1 record were, for the most part, weaker teams. And a lot of those wins were very close. Even though the Bills won, it was clear the team had serious weaknesses. I never bought into the two counterarguments that were made. Namely, that "you play who you play" and "a win's a win." By that people meant I should have been happy with the record at the time and unconcerned about the serious weaknesses I saw. I'll take a 5-1 record any time, but I realized the Bills had to seriously improve the quality of their play if they hoped to get wins against better teams.

 

In a lot of those first six games, the offensive line would provide no pass protection at all for the first half or three quarters, and play lights-out in the fourth quarter. Given the lack of run blocking, the offense would come up dry for most of the game. You can't do much when you're being flat-out dominated in the trenches. But then in the fourth quarter, the offensive line would take control (at least in the passing game), allowing Trent to produce dramatic comebacks.

 

The Bills appear to be serious about fixing the problems on their line, at least on the interior. Hangartner, Wood, and Levitre are solid additions to our line. Losing Peters will hurt. Last season he was an asset in the running game, but a liability in the passing game. Two seasons ago, he was a very solid asset in both phases of the game. I have no confidence that Langson Walker will be anything more than a mediocre LT. Hopefully they will address that position early in the 2010 draft.

 

If they can fill that hole, and if Steve Johnson emerges as a solid possession receiver, and if Nelson emerges as the TE the Bills need, the weaknesses of the 2008 Bills should be corrected (at least on offense).

[SKOOBY]

I didn't fall for it. The teams we beat en route[/] to that 5-1 record were, for the most part, weaker teams. And a lot of those wins were very close. Even though the Bills won, it was clear the team had serious weaknesses. I never bought into the two counterarguments that were made. Namely, that "you play who you play" and "a win's a win." By that people meant I should have been happy with the record at the time and unconcerned about the serious weaknesses I saw. I'll take a 5-1 record any time, but I realized the Bills had to seriously improve the quality of their play if they hoped to get wins against better teams.

 

In a lot of those first six games, the offensive line would provide no pass protection at all for the first half or three quarters, and play lights-out in the fourth quarter. Given the lack of run blocking, the offense would come up dry for most of the game. You can't do much when you're being flat-out dominated in the trenches. But then in the fourth quarter, the offensive line would take control (at least in the passing game), allowing Trent to produce dramatic comebacks.

 

The Bills appear to be serious about fixing the problems on their line, at least on the interior. Hangartner, Wood, and Levitre are solid additions to our line. Losing Peters will hurt. Last season he was an asset in the running game, but a liability in the passing game. Two seasons ago, he was a very solid asset in both phases of the game. I have no confidence that Langson Walker will be anything more than a mediocre LT. Hopefully they will address that position early in the 2010 draft.

 

If they can fill that hole, and if Steve Johnson emerges as a solid possession receiver, and if Nelson emerges as the TE the Bills need, the weaknesses of the 2008 Bills should be corrected (at least on offense).

 

Wow, great post!!

[Willis990]

Did you fall for it? Playoffs or bust?

 

I was thinking 13-3

[billsfreak]

Honestly, I never thought the division was ours, but I was close to being pretty sure we would at least get a Wild Card. We were one of the first teams ever to start 4-0 and not make the playoffs.

[thewildrabbit]

Coming back to the present: I only predict that 2009 will not be boring. I have no confidence in Jauron and his staff that he can bring all of this together and even snag that 6th spot in the AFC. On the other hand, the Bills seem to have enough talent to make a Dolphins-like run and maybe even steal the AFC East. I've been a Bills & NFL fan for over 40 years, and I don't have a clue how this team will finish!

I do, unless the O line coach can pull a miracle outta his backside and the new revamped line plays better then previous years so they can actually move the ball by running and throwing these Bills might have a shot at winning some games.

 

Unfortunately, the reality is... the rookie line coach did a bad job last year with a veteran line!!

 

This year the Bills have an unknown commodity in two rookie guards and a back up free agent center,not to mention Jason Peters is an Eagle, and Langston Walker is playing the toughest position on the line at LT, when he is clearly more suited at right tackle.

You would think that looking at the inexperience on that O line that the Bills would go after one of the FA tackles still available,the Lions just snagged one last week so choices are getting smaller.

 

The entire offense is only as good as the line and with so much uncertainty involving that line I honestly don't see the Bills winning more then 3 games this season. Edwards will get knocked out for the season by week 4 and Bills fans will suffer again.

 

The only good thing about the upcoming season is Ralph Wilson might finally break down and hire a real name head coach like Schottenheimer or Shanahan, and that coach might hire an experienced OC and line coach.

[thewildrabbit]

To answer the OP, YES! I think many many fans were suckered in by Trents comeback wins over the Jags, Raiders and Rams, not to mention outplaying Phillip Rivers in a 23-14 win over the Chargers.

 

Everyone, and I mean everyone was on the bandwagon at 5-1, even stingy ole RW opened up and gave Jauron a new contract.

 

I can recall many posts comparing Trent Edwards to Joe Montana at week 6...he certainly was the Bills best player up to that point.

 

 

Then the reality hit when they faced AFC E opponents and the defense crapped the bed, the kicker crapped the bed, the O line went downhill and the only two bright spots on the team were Lynch and Jackson gaining yards where there were no openings. Special teams was no longer special as in good, maybe special as in short bus.

 

As the OC kept calling shotgun play after shotgun play and deep passing plays which never develop and Edwards has to dump the ball to RB's because very few receivers get open. Hell, Schonert wanted to throw deep so often he didn't even start calling play action pass plays until week 11 against Cleveland. Just about every aspect of the team went into the ceramic convenience. I really don't understand how Jauron kept his job after that nose dive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh crap, did I just reply in a SKOOBY thread

[spartacus]

There's one weakness in your argument -- as big of a bean counter that Ralph is, I think he really does want to win a Super Bowl. I think he still thinks Jauron can get it done with better players. But I think his patience with DJ runs out after this season if DJ doesn't get it done.

 

there's 2 major holes in your response

 

1. Any 90 year old owner serious about winning a Super Bowl would have cut Dick loose and made it a priority to bring in a proven winner like Shannahan or Cowher. Why stay with a career loser when there are guys with multiple Super Bowl wins available.

 

2. Even if you think Dick can get it done with better players, where is the big move in free agency to bring in better players?

They traded their best player at the most important non-QB position for a 1st and 5th. that's not getting better players. they are rolling the dice with Walker at LT. Their LB corp is small and below average - the improvement they hope to come from a 220 lb 5th rounder from last year. Their QB situation behind Edwards is pitiful.

 

They made one flashy move in signing a 37 year old TO - remains to be seen if it was anything but a ticket selling PR move.

[thewildrabbit]

there's 2 major holes in your response

 

1. Any 90 year old owner serious about winning a Super Bowl would have cut Dick loose and made it a priority to bring in a proven winner like Shanahan or Cowher. Why stay with a career loser when there are guys with multiple Super Bowl wins available.

 

2. Even if you think Dick can get it done with better players, where is the big move in free agency to bring in better players?

They traded their best player at the most important non-QB position for a 1st and 5th. that's not getting better players. they are rolling the dice with Walker at LT. Their LB corp is small and below average - the improvement they hope to come from a 220 lb 5th rounder from last year. Their QB situation behind Edwards is pitiful.

 

They made one flashy move in signing a 37 year old TO - remains to be seen if it was anything but a ticket selling PR move.

I agree, this season looks pretty bleak!

 

After looking back at the history of the Buffalo Bills RW did win some AFL championships and has been to the SB 4 times.

I honestly believe that he feels if he dies tomorrow he will be ok with the fact that he fielded some great teams and won championships.

 

All he wants to do at this point is put butts in seats and make a profit in a small market. I think he realizes that should the Bills fail to win many games this next season that Jauron's time as HC must end to keep selling out the stadium. Bringing in TO was a major marketing move by the Bills,that 6.5 million was really worth spending, at least for this upcoming season.