Winfield at contract impasse with Vikings

[buffalopdc]

In my opinion conrnerback is one of the few positions that buffalo had magaged properly. I am gla dwe are not dealing with a potential cornerback holdout like the Vikings.

[afcfan1]

In my opinion, CB is the 2nd least important position next to RB. If your pass rush is good, avg CBs become good, and if you have no pass rush (ala the Bills), you could have D. Sanders, D. Green and M. Haynes back there and it wouldn't matter. Look at the Steelers CBs last year. None of them are what you would consider "Lock Down" guys. Look at the Giants the year before, look at the Colts before that, etc, etc.

[billsfan_34]

In my opinion, CB is the 2nd least important position next to RB. If your pass rush is good, avg CBs become good, and if you have no pass rush (ala the Bills), you could have D. Sanders, D. Green and M. Haynes back there and it wouldn't matter. Look at the Steelers CBs last year. None of them are what you would consider "Lock Down" guys. Look at the Giants the year before, look at the Colts before that, etc, etc.

Totally agree...well stated!!!

[buffalopdc]

I agree as well, that is why I am glad the Bill's refuse to pay CB's the mega salary they all seek and continually draft cornerbacks (although maybe a little carried away in this draft, assuming that none of them make the switch to safety).

[Max997]

In my opinion conrnerback is one of the few positions that buffalo had magaged properly. I am gla dwe are not dealing with a potential cornerback holdout like the Vikings.

 

you cant justify the Bills love affair with CB's simply because a top CB in the league is in a contract dispute

 

players at other positions hold out too, what then? what about when a LT holds out, can you really have enough of them?

[SuperKillerRobots]

In my opinion, CB is the 2nd least important position next to RB. If your pass rush is good, avg CBs become good, and if you have no pass rush (ala the Bills), you could have D. Sanders, D. Green and M. Haynes back there and it wouldn't matter. Look at the Steelers CBs last year. None of them are what you would consider "Lock Down" guys. Look at the Giants the year before, look at the Colts before that, etc, etc.

 

I think the thing that gets overlooked with CBs is that when you have a stellar pass rush, you don't need all-pro CBs, but that doesn't mean you can have bad CBs. Pass rush plays a huge role in this, but can without a DB who can read the QB and make plays on the ball. Out of the teams you listed, the Giants have the worst backfield of the three. They have a pass rush/front 7 that no other team in the league has. Outside of them, the Colts have decent DBs as do the Steelers.

 

Not to mention, when Winfield left here, I don't seem to remember too many people saying that was a bad move. He was decent, but for the contract he wanted, you would have expected hi to intercept passes and not get the ball thrown over his head inside the red zone. When I think of his time here, the dropped INTs and burns in the red zone stand out.

[Mickey]

I think the thing that gets overlooked with CBs is that when you have a stellar pass rush, you don't need all-pro CBs, but that doesn't mean you can have bad CBs. Pass rush plays a huge role in this, but can without a DB who can read the QB and make plays on the ball. Out of the teams you listed, the Giants have the worst backfield of the three. They have a pass rush/front 7 that no other team in the league has. Outside of them, the Colts have decent DBs as do the Steelers.

 

Not to mention, when Winfield left here, I don't seem to remember too many people saying that was a bad move. He was decent, but for the contract he wanted, you would have expected hi to intercept passes and not get the ball thrown over his head inside the red zone. When I think of his time here, the dropped INTs and burns in the red zone stand out.

I think of the picks we spent on CB's and the players we could have picked instead if we didn't have to replace him. I also think of how he never missed a tackle and how the Pats used to always throw away from him. Of course, what do the Patriots know compared to the team of brainiacs that have run the Bills into the ground?

[San-O]

In my opinion, CB is the 2nd least important position next to RB. If your pass rush is good, avg CBs become good, and if you have no pass rush (ala the Bills), you could have D. Sanders, D. Green and M. Haynes back there and it wouldn't matter. Look at the Steelers CBs last year. None of them are what you would consider "Lock Down" guys. Look at the Giants the year before, look at the Colts before that, etc, etc.

 

 

Agreed.

 

The constant DB lovefest must end.

[The Big Cat]

In my opinion, CB is the 2nd least important position next to RB. If your pass rush is good, avg CBs become good, and if you have no pass rush (ala the Bills), you could have D. Sanders, D. Green and M. Haynes back there and it wouldn't matter. Look at the Steelers CBs last year. None of them are what you would consider "Lock Down" guys. Look at the Giants the year before, look at the Colts before that, etc, etc.

 

Whether or not their contribution to the game is "important," the sheer quantity of corner backs a team employs, up to five on the field at once sometimes, means you've got to be serious about keeping bodies fresh. On top of that, corner backs tend to be some of the smaller guys on the field, and they get injured, a lot.

 

Same goes for RB's. Yeah, anyone could fill in at the drop of the hat, but you've got to have three game-ready players anymore.

[stuckincincy]

Whether or not their contribution to the game is "important," the sheer quantity of corner backs a team employs, up to five on the field at once sometimes, means you've got to be serious about keeping bodies fresh. On top of that, corner backs tend to be some of the smaller guys on the field, and they get injured, a lot.

When the opposition goes to 4 wideouts, you bring two close to the LOS instead of 10 yards deep, and whack those extra wideouts in the chops at the snap within the 5 yard zone. At the snap, those players are blockers. Have at 'em.

 

Not a lot or running around and getting winded, then.

[OCinBuffalo]

What is it gonna take for people to accept reality?

 

1. This is not the NFL of the 80's or 90's anymore. The rules changes have made the dominating defenses of those decades impossible to construct, never mind play effectively without mass penalties. You cannot keep an entire team D together for 5 years anymore either, due to FA.

2. The NFL gets its players from college, not Madden. The college game has been moving more and more to the spread offense and now the spread offense is dominant in college. QED, the vast majority of players available are spread offense players, QED college defenses produce spread offense defenders = lots of CBs, Safeties and undersized LBs.

3. Due 1+2, and that you can only draft who is available, not players you can construct/train on Madden, or go back to drafting players coming out of college in 1980-83, you have to draft the best players available now more than ever. After the second round of the draft, everybody is an "undersized, quick, high motor, good football smarts" guy. Given the choice of "the same" you take the guy with the best pass coverage skills = usually a CB, since you are going to be playing 4 of them a game, and somebody has to cover the 6'2" 215 lb WR that can jump and run.

 

Due to 1-3 you cannot draft entire teams of "NFL tough guy LBs and Lineman" because the other 31 teams are trying to get those players too, there aren't anywhere near as many as there used to be due to #2, and even if you could, half of the ones you do get are going to be gone due to #1.

 

This is the reason the 3-4 d is now the new darling of the NFL. Sure, because you hope that your smaller faster LBs can cover when your faster quicker OLB can get a pass rush. But more importantly, these are the players that colleges are producing today.

[John from Riverside]

What is it gonna take for people to accept reality?

 

1. This is not the NFL of the 80's or 90's anymore. The rules changes have made the dominating defenses of those decades impossible to construct, never mind play effectively without mass penalties. You cannot keep an entire team D together for 5 years anymore either, due to FA.

2. The NFL gets its players from college, not Madden. The college game has been moving more and more to the spread offense and now the spread offense is dominant in college. QED, the vast majority of players available are spread offense players, QED college defenses produce spread offense defenders = lots of CBs, Safeties and undersized LBs.

3. Due 1+2, and that you can only draft who is available, not players you can construct/train on Madden, or go back to drafting players coming out of college in 1980-83, you have to draft the best players available now more than ever. After the second round of the draft, everybody is an "undersized, quick, high motor, good football smarts" guy. Given the choice of "the same" you take the guy with the best pass coverage skills = usually a CB, since you are going to be playing 4 of them a game, and somebody has to cover the 6'2" 215 lb WR that can jump and run.

 

Due to 1-3 you cannot draft entire teams of "NFL tough guy LBs and Lineman" because the other 31 teams are trying to get those players too, there aren't anywhere near as many as there used to be due to #2, and even if you could, half of the ones you do get are going to be gone due to #1.

 

This is the reason the 3-4 d is now the new darling of the NFL. Sure, because you hope that your smaller faster LBs can cover when your faster quicker OLB can get a pass rush. But more importantly, these are the players that colleges are producing today.

 

Good post OC

[The Big Cat]

What is it gonna take for people to accept reality?

 

1. This is not the NFL of the 80's or 90's anymore. The rules changes have made the dominating defenses of those decades impossible to construct, never mind play effectively without mass penalties. You cannot keep an entire team D together for 5 years anymore either, due to FA.

2. The NFL gets its players from college, not Madden. The college game has been moving more and more to the spread offense and now the spread offense is dominant in college. QED, the vast majority of players available are spread offense players, QED college defenses produce spread offense defenders = lots of CBs, Safeties and undersized LBs.

3. Due 1+2, and that you can only draft who is available, not players you can construct/train on Madden, or go back to drafting players coming out of college in 1980-83, you have to draft the best players available now more than ever. After the second round of the draft, everybody is an "undersized, quick, high motor, good football smarts" guy. Given the choice of "the same" you take the guy with the best pass coverage skills = usually a CB, since you are going to be playing 4 of them a game, and somebody has to cover the 6'2" 215 lb WR that can jump and run.

 

Due to 1-3 you cannot draft entire teams of "NFL tough guy LBs and Lineman" because the other 31 teams are trying to get those players too, there aren't anywhere near as many as there used to be due to #2, and even if you could, half of the ones you do get are going to be gone due to #1.

 

This is the reason the 3-4 d is now the new darling of the NFL. Sure, because you hope that your smaller faster LBs can cover when your faster quicker OLB can get a pass rush. But more importantly, these are the players that colleges are producing today.

 

Sure, but the game is won in the trenches.

[Brand J]

I wonder how Lebron James would do as a WR. 6'8" 245 with speed and jumping ability?? He'd be unstoppable...

[stuckincincy]

I wonder how Lebron James would do as a WR. 6'8" 245 with speed and jumping ability?? He'd be unstoppable...

 

 

Years ago, folks theorized about how Wilt Chamberlain would do as a TE.

 

He was an amazing athlete. Incredibly fast - I recall seeing college footage with him outrunning guards.

 

Wilt:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

[RLflutie7]

In my opinion, CB is the 2nd least important position next to RB. If your pass rush is good, avg CBs become good, and if you have no pass rush (ala the Bills), you could have D. Sanders, D. Green and M. Haynes back there and it wouldn't matter. Look at the Steelers CBs last year. None of them are what you would consider "Lock Down" guys. Look at the Giants the year before, look at the Colts before that, etc, etc.

 

 

 

Very true. I don't think DBs are very important either when you look at who wins in the NFL. The Broncos won SBs with one of the worst pass defenses in the league. Twice.

 

But I do think RBs are important and it's funny that so many teams keep 10 WR, 10 LB or 10 DB and have only two RB. Can't figure it. I'd keep at least four RB.

[bartshan-83]

While I agree that CBs are probably one of the lower priorities to spend your resources on, I like defenders who can tackle. Winfield is the best tackler in the league and he has been for a decade. I would be willing to pay a premium for any defender (regardless of position) if I knew there was a 99% chance the guy he engages goes down. So many arm-tacklers and head hunters in the league who either don't know how to wrap-up, are too afraid to be kicked or stepped on or don't care if they miss 9 tackles as long as the 10th makes Sportscenter.

[zazie]

Agreed.

 

The constant DB lovefest must end.

Maybe DJ is an idiot? Could that be it?

[TheLynchTrain]

I wonder how Lebron James would do as a WR. 6'8" 245 with speed and jumping ability?? He'd be unstoppable...

 

he's listed as 6'8 250 but he likes to say he is 6'9 260 in interviews....

[2003Contenders]

FWIW, remember that Winfield left Buffalo, agreed in principle to a contract with the Jets -- then flew out to Minnesota and signed a big deal there instead. You can't blame the Bills for not being willing (or able) to compete for such high dollar contracts, when the deciding factor really does come down to $. I know some would argue that the team needs to do a better job of working out long-term deals BEFORE the players become free agents. That would be nice, but you also can't blame the players for being excited about hitting paydirt in free agency when these contracts really are so outlandish.

 

The problem is that NFL teams do place a high commodity on CBs. Look at some of the contracts these guys have signed. The Bills NEVER really had a shot at re-signing either Clements or Winfield, which is why they have had to invest high draft picks on DBs. Assuming McGee is gone at the end of this year, we'll all look back and see why the team did what they did.