Chris Kelsay

[The Dean]

With Freddie and Peters complaining about being underpaid (they are), OBD should focus on whose overpaid; we already cut Dockery, why not Kelsay. Think about it, he makes 8 million a year,

 

 

According to the NFLPA site, Kelsay's base salary for 2009 is $2.4 Million

 

According to the USA Today website that factors in bonuses, Kelsay's 2008 base salary was $1.4, total salary, with bonuses $5 Mill.

 

Where does the $8 Million come from?

[TheLynchTrain]

According to the NFLPA site, Kelsay's base salary for 2009 is $2.4 Million

 

According to the USA Today website that factors in bonuses, Kelsay's 2008 base salary was $1.4, total salary, with bonuses $5 Mill.

 

Where does the $8 Million come from?

 

Exactly. All the big money was already paid to Kelsay. Cutting him now would be stupid and a complete waste of an investment.

 

I mad to say it, but Kelsay, right now with the years remaining, is a "bargain" investment, regardless of how terrible TBD thinks he is.

 

 

 

I kind of felt the same way with Dockery...we gave him all the signing bonus and guaranteed money upfront in two years...and then cut him. The last 5 years on his contract were for around 25 mil...yeah he wasnt living up to his contract but the big money had already passed and he was making average for an avg guard. But I'm sure the Bills wanted to send a "message," whatever that message was...

[BB-Gun]

Kelsay is a competent DE. He is average as a starter. Not everyone on our team is going to be a pro bowler. I agree the Bills overpaid him when they did not need to. We do not need to replace Kelsay in this draft. We need a situational pass rusher to come in for Kelsay, and eventually take over for Schoebel. So, we need to find Schoebel's eventual replacement. My choice is Connor Barwin. He can watch and learn for a year or two, and replace schoebel as a starter evetually.

 

Plus, I believe our DL philosophy is attacking the defense in waves of linemen. We don't need all our starters to be excellent, we need good quality depth.

[34-78-83]

Comparing # of tackles for the DE position is truly laughable. What a fan world we live in

[SuperKillerRobots]

With Freddie and Peters complaining about being underpaid (they are), OBD should focus on whose overpaid; we already cut Dockery, why not Kelsay. Think about it, he makes 8 million a year, with that savings we coudl pay Peters long term, or in the very least up him for 09 and 10 and then replace him with a tackle like Bell or someone else we can develop in the next 2 years.

Furthermore, Kelsay is a waste of a roster spot; if we draft a DE early that would give us 5 DEs, not enough snaps to go around for Schobel, Kelsay, Denny, Ellis, and a rookie. In a perfect world we'd cut Kelsay, pay Peters, trade Roscoe for a 4th, and give the savings to Jackson, and then :

1) Brown DE

2) Cook TE

3) Wood C/G

4a) Follett LB

4b) Ellison S

5) Shipley C

6) Miller DT

7) Sutton RB

 

Kelsey won't make $8mm during the rest of his contract. I'm pretty sure he isn't due a bonus and his base salaries are less than $4mm each year. I understand that he isn't a great pass rusher and he's not vry well liked by most, but you don't cut a guy because he is overpaid and not save any money on him. The bonuses have all been paid and unless he can't beat out Copeland Bryant or Ellis, which he can, he should still be on the team. I'm not trying to cut a guy and replace him with some one worse.

[Dibs]

Kelsey won't make $8mm during the rest of his contract. I'm pretty sure he isn't due a bonus and his base salaries are less than $4mm each year. I understand that he isn't a great pass rusher and he's not vry well liked by most, but you don't cut a guy because he is overpaid and not save any money on him. The bonuses have all been paid and unless he can't beat out Copeland Bryant or Ellis, which he can, he should still be on the team. I'm not trying to cut a guy and replace him with some one worse.

Do you mean actual dollars or cap dollars?

Either way.....we'd save $3.6mil in cap or cash savings if we cut him at this point.

 

We only save $400k under the cap by cutting Dockery(over $5mil cash saving though).

[C.Biscuit97]

Comparing # of tackles for the DE position is truly laughable. What a fan world we live in

 

So is using sacks as the be all end all stat for DEs.

[The Dean]

Do you mean actual dollars or cap dollars?

Either way.....we'd save $3.6mil in cap or cash savings if we cut him at this point.

 

We only save $400k under the cap by cutting Dockery(over $5mil cash saving though).

 

 

Sounds about right. I'm not defending Kelsay, and would be happy if they let him go, IF they replaced him with someone better, but I was pretty sure he wasn't making $8 million

[Alphadawg7]

You're insane if you think a rookie DE is gonna be able to step in and be a 3 down player. It took Mario Williams a few years and he is about a million times better than any DE in this draft. Kelsay is good against the run and a bad pass rusher. But he definitely has a place on this team. Just get a situational pass rusher for passing downs.

 

Holy , we actually agree...

 

Kelsay is not as bad as the people who look in the paper and check sack totals think. He is a good tackler, brings good pressure, and is good against the run. He has value to our D, and when our D Line was healthy (and that was before we had Stroud), our pass rush wasnt too bad.

 

I am not saying he is worth what he is paid, but we don't need to cut him and would be better off keeping him than taking the cap hit.

 

Good point about Mario Williams too...I just don't see anyone near his caliber in this draft and it did take him a few years to settle in and now Houston looks like geniuses for passing on Vince Young and frail Reggie Bush.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

So is using sacks as the be all end all stat for DEs.

In this type of defense, yes sacks are pretty much the end all be all. If the sacks are there, then the pressure are there and thats where turnovers happen. Kelsay is one of the worst pass rushers that I have ever seen. He has no speed and absolutely no counter moves. He gives the Bills zero on pass plays.

[Alphadawg7]

Do you mean actual dollars or cap dollars?

Either way.....we'd save $3.6mil in cap or cash savings if we cut him at this point.

 

We only save $400k under the cap by cutting Dockery(over $5mil cash saving though).

 

totally agree

[lacoy38]

guess i was wrong; i thought we still owed him a lot of $$. I just don't want to have trade Peters b/c of someone who isn't producing, but if he's only making a couple million, welll. . . he's playing like it and can't really hold anything against him.

[Alphadawg7]

guess i was wrong; i thought we still owed him a lot of $$. I just don't want to have trade Peters b/c of someone who isn't producing, but if he's only making a couple million, welll. . . he's playing like it and can't really hold anything against him.

 

The standoff is not because we dont have the money to pay him...in other words, we dont need to cut guys to give him what he wants...

[Dibs]

guess i was wrong; i thought we still owed him a lot of $$. I just don't want to have trade Peters b/c of someone who isn't producing, but if he's only making a couple million, welll. . . he's playing like it and can't really hold anything against him.

He still is making quite a bit. $5.6mil this year. $2mil is amortized bonus so that is already paid & he has $3mil in salary & $600k in bonus(not paid yet?). Ignoring the amortized SB money.....I guess it boils down to whether we can get another player who will play definitely better for around $3-4mil a year.

[San-O]

You're insane if you think a rookie DE is gonna be able to step in and be a 3 down player. It took Mario Williams a few years and he is about a million times better than any DE in this draft. Kelsay is good against the run and a bad pass rusher. But he definitely has a place on this team. Just get a situational pass rusher for passing downs.

 

 

Right, a LDE coun't not possibly step in as a rookie, not get ANY sacks or pressures and be a non-factor in the running game.

 

Please, wake up. Dump Kelsay already and get someone in there that might actually develop into someone that

can make a difference once in a blue moon.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Kelsay and Schobel ,just putting in their time. Going for the ride. Laughing the whole way to the bank.

[beastly23]

KELSAY SUCKS HES NOT AT ALL INTIMIDATING OR GOOD TO BEGIN WITH

[San-O]

guess i was wrong; i thought we still owed him a lot of $$. I just don't want to have trade Peters b/c of someone who isn't producing, but if he's only making a couple million, welll. . . he's playing like it and can't really hold anything against him.

 

Yes, this is part of the beauty of the "cash-to-cap" approach. You can overpay any player as much as possible

in any given year and not have to worry about it any more, because the signing bonus was already accounted for!

 

In addition, you prevent yourself from dealing the pressures of having any leverage regarding the remainder of

the contract, as there is virtually no cap hit impact and cutting a player for non-performance makes almost no sense from a money perspective.

 

[BBills14]

You know which teams he wouldn't have a place on? The Patriots, Dolphins and Jets.

 

BTW, he sucks against the run also. In six years he has 169 tackles which averages to 28 tackles per season.

 

Chris Kelsay is making $285,714.29 per tackle. Worth it?

[VJ91]

With Freddie and Peters complaining about being underpaid (they are), OBD should focus on whose overpaid; we already cut Dockery, why not Kelsay. Think about it, he makes 8 million a year, with that savings we coudl pay Peters long term, or in the very least up him for 09 and 10 and then replace him with a tackle like Bell or someone else we can develop in the next 2 years.

Furthermore, Kelsay is a waste of a roster spot; if we draft a DE early that would give us 5 DEs, not enough snaps to go around for Schobel, Kelsay, Denny, Ellis, and a rookie. In a perfect world we'd cut Kelsay, pay Peters, trade Roscoe for a 4th, and give the savings to Jackson, and then :

1) Brown DE

2) Cook TE

3) Wood C/G

4a) Follett LB

4b) Ellison S

5) Shipley C

6) Miller DT

7) Sutton RB

 

Kelsay earns 8 Mill a year?? No way. I thought his extension was for around half that, about 4 Million a year. If Kelsay really earns that much money, Jason Peters should shut it down and stay away for the entire two years left on his contract until the jerks payed him 10 Million per.