Magox Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Here's why they can't afford to keep Scaife. they are only 11 million dollars under the cap with Haynesworth and Kerry Collins to resign http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/foot...0,7231318.story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickie do-right Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Good point - I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 That's crazy talk. You're comparing a guy that averages 42 rec at 9.75 yds each and less than 2 TDs per season to Jason Witten. Not even close. Scaife is not a poor man's Witten, he's not even a broke man's Witten. If the Bills want production on par with Witten (avg. 71 rec at 11.37 yds each with 4.16 TDs per season), they need to draft somebody. If they want another over-glorified backup, go with Scaife. Sorry, but spending $3M+ per year for a guy that's never caught more than 2 TDs seems kind of illogical to me. The bottom line, in my opinion, is that the good tight ends get drafted and develop through a system (save for Antonio Gates, but his situation was different as a basketball player). About the only FA tight end I can remember having an impact on his new team, at least in the last several years, is Visanthe Shiancoe...he was pretty good with Minnesota this year. The top player at TE in FA last year was Ben Utecht, and he went on to have a wopping 17 catches with Cincinnati. No thanks on Scaife and his 2 TDs. The Bills should draft a tight end in round 2 or 3. Oh, I absolutely agree that we should draft someone. But to think we can develop one in-house is just silly. The last guy we had that was was Riemersma. TN is a run first team. In our short passing RAC system, he could potentially do well. Bottom line is he is a relatively inexpensive (yep, inexpensive - compared to what we're paying Royal (just under 2.5 mil)) for a guy the other team actually game plans for. Is 3 mil a lot of scratch for an above average player? Sure. But it's gonna have to be *at least* that for anyone to consider coming to BUF. Seems like a fair trade for a guy that could be a good security blanket for the 2nd coming of Captain Checkdown. We have the cap room. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Here's some info to chew on so we actually have a touchstone to reality. It is being reported that Owen Daniels will probably be tendered at the highest level. I've searched around and am getting conflicting numbers on that amount but it looks to be about $3.4 million. At that salary tender a team would have to give up a 1st and 3rd round pick to pry him from Houston, if they decided not to match. Here's some good numbers for reference: $4.5 million: The 2008 average compensation of the five highest paid tight ends in NFL $3.4 million: Owen Daniels' expected 2009 compensation $2.8 million: The 2008 median compensation for the 32 highest paid tight ends $2.7 million: Alge Crumpler's (signed by Tennessee last year) 2008 compensation $1.8 million: Robert Royal's 2008 compensation $1.4 million: Bo Scaife's 2008 compensation $863,000: The average tight end compensation in 2008 (note this is for starters and non-starters) $693,000: Derek Fine's 2008 compensation Bo Scaife will be the best unrestricted tight end available and will probably receive a contract paying him at least $3 million average and possibly much more because of the propensity for teams to get stupid, especially when there are few free agent options. Here's the USA Today's link on player salaries: http://content.usatoday.com/sports/footbal...es/default.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Here's Bo Scaife scouting report (albeit a bit outdated) from ESPN Scout's Inc: 2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc. Grade: 67 | Key Alert: None Comment: Scaife is a four-year veteran out of Texas who was drafted by the Titans in the sixth round of the 2005 draft. He is their all purpose tight end who moves around from tight end to H-back to being split out like a wide receiver. He is somewhat-undersized for a blocking tight end, but is a very accomplished receiver. He is quick-footed, very quick on his release from the line of scrimmage and difficult to press or jam. He runs good routes and has a burst coming out of his breaks to separate from defenders. He has a very large receiving radius and can reach out to pluck the ball when thrown high, low or outside of his frame. He has soft, sure hands and does a good job of concentrating to make the difficult catch in traffic. Scaife has become one of Vince Young's favorite targets, especially in crunch time, thanks to their time together at the University of Texas. He can stretch the secondary down the middle and has some run after the catch skills. He is not real strong as an inline blocker, but can screen and shield people in the open field as a stalk blocker. 69-60: Average Starter A valuable roster player but is not dominant against the better players he faces on a week-to-week basis... Gives great effort and you are glad that he is on your team, but he may or may not go to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Here's Bo Scaife scouting report (albeit a bit outdated) from ESPN Scout's Inc: 2008 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc. Grade: 67 | Key Alert: None Comment: Scaife is a four-year veteran out of Texas who was drafted by the Titans in the sixth round of the 2005 draft. He is their all purpose tight end who moves around from tight end to H-back to being split out like a wide receiver. He is somewhat-undersized for a blocking tight end, but is a very accomplished receiver. He is quick-footed, very quick on his release from the line of scrimmage and difficult to press or jam. He runs good routes and has a burst coming out of his breaks to separate from defenders. He has a very large receiving radius and can reach out to pluck the ball when thrown high, low or outside of his frame. He has soft, sure hands and does a good job of concentrating to make the difficult catch in traffic. Scaife has become one of Vince Young's favorite targets, especially in crunch time, thanks to their time together at the University of Texas. He can stretch the secondary down the middle and has some run after the catch skills. He is not real strong as an inline blocker, but can screen and shield people in the open field as a stalk blocker. 69-60: Average Starter A valuable roster player but is not dominant against the better players he faces on a week-to-week basis... Gives great effort and you are glad that he is on your team, but he may or may not go to the next level. And I'm sure if they rated him today he would get an even more favorable writeup. This was his scouting report going into the season and he had his best year yet this past year. I'm really hoping we target him this offseason. He would most likely cost no more than $750,000 more a year than royal, proven player, much better production with good upside. Plus it's another area we wouldnt have to address in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 And I'm sure if they rated him today he would get an even more favorable writeup. This was his scouting report going into the season and he had his best year yet this past year. I'm really hoping we target him this offseason. He would most likely cost no more than $750,000 more a year than royal, proven player, much better production with good upside. Plus it's another area we wouldnt have to address in the draft. Yeah I agree if we could get him at a reasonable number. My fear is that the Bills' always comment about how tight ends have to be able to block well in their scheme and Scaife is not considered a great blocker so I'm thinking this might diminish his attractiveness to the team. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBlood Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 Yeah I agree if we could get him at a reasonable number. My fear is that the Bills' always comment about how tight ends have to be able to block well in their scheme and Scaife is not considered a great blocker so I'm thinking this might diminish his attractiveness to the team. Just a thought. Yea and this TE who can block in this scheme thing has worked real well for them over the past 10 years or so huh. Listen you can have blocking TEs on the roster and a real recieving threat like Bo. Bo knows pass catching. Bo knows touchdowns. I know the Bills are too dumb to make this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Yea and this TE who can block in this scheme thing has worked real well for them over the past 10 years or so huh. Listen you can have blocking TEs on the roster and a real recieving threat like Bo. Bo knows pass catching. Bo knows touchdowns. I know the Bills are too dumb to make this happen. Let's not go overboard. Bo would likely be an upgrade over what they have now, but he isn't the guy who is going to change this offense, IMO. I'd be a little worried that, if he really is a poor blocker, the Bills would be telegraphing their plays, even more than they do now, when he comes on the field. I'd like to see the Bills get a good blocking TE that can run good routes, and actually catch the ball when it is thrown his way. Any downfield ability would be appreciated, but I would consider it a bonus. I'd take Bo, but I think the Bills would be dumb to settle on Bo, if there are better options available to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Let's not go overboard. Bo would likely be an upgrade over what they have now, but he isn't the guy who is going to change this offense, IMO. I'd be a little worried that, if he really is a poor blocker, the Bills would be telegraphing their plays, even more than they do now, when he comes on the field. I'd like to see the Bills get a good blocking TE that can run good routes, and actually catch the ball when it is thrown his way. Any downfield ability would be appreciated, but I would consider it a bonus. I'd take Bo, but I think the Bills would be dumb to settle on Bo, if there are better options available to them. I'll be the first to admit I'm not an OL technique connoisseur. But he didn't seem to be half bad when I watched the home town T*t* play. He's no Metz - but compared to who we have, he's the second coming of Sam Gash. He also studied under Munchak. Which isn't a bad thing. It drives me nuts to see the middle of the field open for the taking on passing plays and we can't take advantage of it unless Reed is in there. Or worse Royal drops the damn ball. If Bo wants something upwards of 4mil/yr I think we keep looking, but other than that I'd give him a close look. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 As far as the review he got for his blocking, That is'nt consistant with the commentary that he recieved from game announcers and analysts through out the season. What I saw and heard about him, he is a good blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 I'm with you Bandit. If Bo was so good the Titans wouldn't be having ideas of letting him go. I would really like to draft James Casey from Rice in the 2nd round. would you take Coffman if he's still avail. or are you sticking with Casey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11361578 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Here's why they can't afford to keep Scaife. they are only 11 million dollars under the cap with Haynesworth and Kerry Collins to resign http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/foot...0,7231318.story I don't see them re-signing Haynesworth and Collins should not command a huge contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 What the heck's wrong with Derek Fine? Why couldn't he be our Dallas Clark? They have almost the exact same build. Fine looked very good when he was called upon. Both players had just 1 touchdown scored in their rookie season. Why couldn't Fine be the answer at tight end? I see no reason why he couldn't be a very good tight end of us. This team should give Fine the starting job and use the top draft selections for what is truly needed...a center, a defensive end, an outside linebacker and a defensive tackle. Give Fine the starting TE job and give Steve Johnson the starting #2 receiver job. I'm tired of the obsession over the tight end position on this board. http://www.nfl.com/players/derekfine/caree...ts?id=FIN197209 http://www.nfl.com/players/dallasclark/car...ts?id=CLA236596 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 What the heck's wrong with Derek Fine? Why couldn't he be our Dallas Clark? They have almost the exact same build. Fine looked very good when he was called upon. Both players had just 1 touchdown scored in their rookie season. Why couldn't Fine be the answer at tight end? I see no reason why he couldn't be a very good tight end of us. This team should give Fine the starting job and use the top draft selections for what is truly needed...a center, a defensive end, an outside linebacker and a defensive tackle. Give Fine the starting TE job and give Steve Johnson the starting #2 receiver job. I'm tired of the obsession over the tight end position on this board. http://www.nfl.com/players/derekfine/caree...ts?id=FIN197209 http://www.nfl.com/players/dallasclark/car...ts?id=CLA236596 Who cares if your tired? The reason for the obsession on this board for a TE is because we havn't had a good one in over a decade, and even the one we had then was just decent. A good TE can make an ok offense into a good one. Scaife was a very unheralded player for the Titans. He led the team in receptions, he led the team in third down receptions, and he helped keep drives alive. As far as Fine is concerned, I am looking forward to seeing his progression this year, and having Fine and Scaife I think would be a good fit. Definitely better then what we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Who cares if your tired? The reason for the obsession on this board for a TE is because we havn't had a good one in over a decade, and even the one we had then was just decent. A good TE can make an ok offense into a good one. Scaife was a very unheralded player for the Titans. He led the team in receptions, he led the team in third down receptions, and he helped keep drives alive. As far as Fine is concerned, I am looking forward to seeing his progression this year, and having Fine and Scaife I think would be a good fit. Definitely better then what we have. Back to Ralphy's wishes to improve the talent on the offensive side of the ball... Fine is a ? Compare Scaiffe's write up to the top three TE's in the draft and you basically have the same guy. Pettigrew fits best because he can block well, but he's rated too high and I can't see us taking him with the 11th overall pick. If for some ungodly reason we do want a TE in Rd. 1 look for a trade down to net us an additional late round pick and take Pettigrew between 20 & 25. Coffman has impressed the pants off me with his route running, soft hands, and RAC ability, but his knock is his "average blocking skills." Don't know much about Casey, but a few of you seem to be pretty high on him. I'd like to pursue Scaiffe and give Fine a chance to progress rather than bringing in a rookie TE and expecting him to be an impact player. I'm just concerned that we'll over pay him and he won't live up to the high expectations the franchise, as well as the Fans, put on him. Forget Daniels, way too pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Who cares if your tired? The reason for the obsession on this board for a TE is because we havn't had a good one in over a decade, and even the one we had then was just decent. A good TE can make an ok offense into a good one. Scaife was a very unheralded player for the Titans. He led the team in receptions, he led the team in third down receptions, and he helped keep drives alive. As far as Fine is concerned, I am looking forward to seeing his progression this year, and having Fine and Scaife I think would be a good fit. Definitely better then what we have. Derek Fine was a rookie last season. You need to have just a little bit of patience because it's rare a tight end is great right out of the box. Do you seriously think that Derek Fine, in his second season as a pro, can't do what Bo Scaife does? Why in the world would the Bills want to waste precious free agent dollars for a guy that they already possess? They'd be much better served to take that "Bo Scaife"' money and pool it with the money saved by cutting current useless players like Kelsay, Royal and Fowler and make a run at Julius Peppers. In any event, Bo and Derek are essentially the same player and the Bills do not need to throw money at guys they already have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair GM Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Derek Fine was a rookie last season. You need to have just a little bit of patience because it's rare a tight end is great right out of the box. Do you seriously think that Derek Fine, in his second season as a pro, can't do what Bo Scaife does? Why in the world would the Bills want to waste precious free agent dollars for a guy that they already possess? They'd be much better served to take that "Bo Scaife"' money and pool it with the money saved by cutting current useless players like Kelsay, Royal and Fowler and make a run at Julius Peppers. In any event, Bo and Derek are essentially the same player and the Bills do not need to throw money at guys they already have. Good point, but you are still failing to heed Ralphy Boy's words....He is not satisfied with the talent on this team, he's looking for immediate upgrades. Fine could very well be a good/great tight end sometime in the next 2-3 seasons, maybe even making strides this year. But seriously, I don't think the "inner circle-jerk" ( I stole that nickname) is gonna wait for any more players to progress. With the check down offense we run, the TE is an intregal position and aside from C, is a close tie with #2 WR for the biggest need for an upgrade. Insert Steve Johnson's name in this post for the same reasoning we need a viable #2 WR...IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Good point, but you are still failing to heed Ralphy Boy's words....He is not satisfied with the talent on this team, he's looking for immediate upgrades. Fine could very well be a good/great tight end sometime in the next 2-3 seasons, maybe even making strides this year. But seriously, I don't think the "inner circle-jerk" ( I stole that nickname) is gonna wait for any more players to progress. With the check down offense we run, the TE is an intregal position and aside from C, is a close tie with #2 WR for the biggest need for an upgrade. Insert Steve Johnson's name in this post for the same reasoning we need a viable #2 WR...IMHO Ralphie boy had to put the blame somewhere and considering he ignorantly extended the contract of one of the worst head coaches in NFL history he chose to point the finger at the players. So your argument is based on a falsehood. Dick Jauron, his coordinators and their schemes are all laughable. Fine and Johnson would have just as much success that Greer and Jackson had if they were just given the chance to succeed. I can see their talent, why can't these knuckleheads? Someone needs to tell the deranged and delusional owner of the Buffalo Bills that it's the coaching stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts