The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 This Whitner hate is just getting pathetic. The guy is 23 years old and has been nothing but positive about Buffalo and the Bills since he's been here. He has played multiple positions and has been a rock in a shaky defense. Whitner didn't pick himself #8th, but he at the very bottom of our problems. He's only gonna get better. Oh and Bob Sanders had exactly 0 sacks and 2 INTs after his 3rd season in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/players/bobsanders/profile?id=SAN287153 Good thing he wasn't on the Bills or some of genius would have run him out of town before he became Defensive player of the year. Of course, Sanders missed many games in two of those years, and again this year, as he is constantly injured. When he plays, he is among the best in the game. Unfortunately, he only plays about half of the time. But, we are missing the point. Whitner sucks because he was picked at #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Pfft, you act like having a pass rush makes a difference in whether or not the defensive backs can play aggressive. I mean, honestly, look at the top-tier safeties in the NFL this season: Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu, Michael Griffin, Adrian Wilson, and Brian Dawkins (any others?). Then look at the NFL leaders in team sacks: Pittsburgh (2), Philadelphia (3), Tennessee (5), Baltimore (11), and Arizona (14). Hang on then...maybe you are onto something! The teams cited play a much more aggressive defense than the Bills. While I can't disagree with the desire to see more out of Whitner, I can at the same time look at any other secondary position and make unfavorable comparisions between the Bills and the teams cited above. So you can make the same argument about the Bills CB's and those of Pitt, Phil, etc. The Bills simply play too timid in defending the pass. Its a by-product of Juron's low risk, low reward system that only seems to succeed when the opponent makes mistakes not when the Bills make plays. Too many times during the season Bills defenders have played so far off the receiver that while watching the game on TV it wasn't clear for several seconds after the receiver caught the ball that there actually were defensive backs on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Of course, Sanders missed many games in two of those years, and again this year, as he is constantly injured. When he plays, he is among the best in the game. Unfortunately, he only plays about half of the time. But, we are missing the point. Whitner sucks because he was picked at #8. Oh, I know but that's part of the deal in judging players. The less likely you are to injuried, the more valuable you are. That's really my only concern with Edwards. I also like to point out after Sanders' 3rd season he was 25. Whitner is 23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 If you remember, Winfield used to get trashed by many on this board, by those who know little of DB play, because he had few INTs (and didn't make "big plays") Now, all they do is pine for him, and blame the team for letting him go. There are three things you typically hope for from a DB: 1) Good pass coverage 2) Good tackling 3) Interceptions and other big plays. Winfield was very strong in the first two categories, while showing little ability to get interceptions. Overall, he was a very valuable member of the Bills, and it was a shame that TD decided to let him go first contract and out. Whitner is only strong at one of those three categories (good tackling). He is mediocre at coverage, and thus far has shown little proficiency at making interceptions or other big plays. One could argue that this last deficiency is due to the way he's used, or due to the lack of a strong pass rush. His less than stellar coverage ability is, to me, a much more serious concern, and is the reason why he doesn't belong in the same category as Winfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Whitner is a VERY good player. He has not made many huge plays yet but how many of the elite safeties were lining up playing the 3rd corner and man to man on slot receivers this year for 3-4 games. He is only in his 3rd year and is a major leader on that team. They drafted him that high b/c they knew he was a student of the game and a very good player. That combination will pay off for this team. There are very few players in the league who would have been playing a few weeks after a 3rd degree AC (shoulder separation). This guy will pay off for the Bills. If you ask people wo know football around the league they place him in the top 10 safeties in the league. Give him another year and you probably will be able to place him in the top 5. He is only 23 years old! He will be a GREAT player in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Whitner can't cover (see Randy out-leap him the end zone) That's the best example you can come up with to prove that Whitner has lackluster cover skills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Whitner is a VERY good player. He has not made many huge plays yet but how many of the elite safeties were lining up playing the 3rd corner and man to man on slot receivers this year for 3-4 games. He is only in his 3rd year and is a major leader on that team. They drafted him that high b/c they knew he was a student of the game and a very good player. That combination will pay off for this team. There are very few players in the league who would have been playing a few weeks after a 3rd degree AC (shoulder separation). This guy will pay off for the Bills. If you ask people wo know football around the league they place him in the top 10 safeties in the league. Give him another year and you probably will be able to place him in the top 5. He is only 23 years old! He will be a GREAT player in this league. He seems more like an unspectacular player on a below average defense. He's just a guy it looks to me, who doesn't get picks/INTs. Also, Bills Daily Gameday Section season recapped, and basically said the same thing. Seems to be hurt a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 He seems more like an unspectacular player on a below average defense. He's just a guy it looks to me, who doesn't get picks/INTs. Also, Bills Daily Gameday Section season recapped, and basically said the same thing. Seems to be hurt a lot. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 There are three things you typically hope for from a DB: 1) Good pass coverage 2) Good tackling 3) Interceptions and other big plays. For a Strong Safety, Whitner is excellent in coverage. Somehow, you got your facts confused. He is rarely thrown on, when he has primary coverage responsibility. He isn't a CB, and is not a lock-down corer, like Winfield, but no SS is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Over-rated high draft picl. Not the playmaker a team needs in the secondary safty position. Solid player, that is it. Pay cut would be welcomed by me if salary is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 This Whitner hate is just getting pathetic. The guy is 23 years old and has been nothing but positive about Buffalo and the Bills since he's been here. He has played multiple positions and has been a rock in a shaky defense. Whitner didn't pick himself #8th, but he at the very bottom of our problems. He's only gonna get better. Oh and Bob Sanders had exactly 0 sacks and 2 INTs after his 3rd season in the NFL. http://www.nfl.com/players/bobsanders/profile?id=SAN287153 Good thing he wasn't on the Bills or some of genius would have run him out of town before he became Defensive player of the year. Most of the mock drafts I saw for 2006 had Whitner going 57th overall, to Kansas City. It's not Whitner's fault that he was chosen way above his projected position by a team desperate to fill its self-created hole at SS. Rather than comparing Whitner's performance to what one would expect from the 8th overall pick, it might be better for our peace of mind to compare his performance to what one would expect from a SS picked 57th overall. Once I started thinking of Whitner as a guy chosen 57th overall, a lot of my feelings of disappointment went away. Some might be tempted to say that, even though the consensus was that Whitner was a second round talent, that's not where the Bills picked him. And that it's perfectly reasonable to ask whether the Bills got good value for their 8th overall pick. But it might be better to put that kind of question out of our minds, as the answer will only lead to bitterness and negativity. And as Bills fans, we have enough reasons to feel those things anyway, without spending too much time dwelling on the golden opportunities that had been foolishly squandered in the 2006 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Over-rated high draft picl. Not the playmaker a team needs in the secondary safty position. Solid player, that is it. Pay cut would be welcomed by me if salary is an issue. Donte is on his first contract, how much do you think he makes? Whitner made under $2 mil, last year and he tops out at under $2.5 in 2010. He will NOT be taking a pay cut, no matter where he goes. Do people even think, and do a little research, before they post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Most of the mock drafts I saw for 2006 had Whitner going 57th overall, to Kansas City. Really? Mock drafts that were done within a week of the draft? 57th? Really? My advice is to change the mocks you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Most of the mock drafts I saw for 2006 had Whitner going 57th overall, to Kansas City. It's not Whitner's fault that he was chosen way above his projected position by a team desperate to fill its self-created hole at SS. 57th? Is that a typo? Do you mean 17th or 27th? Every mock draft I saw had Whitner going in the first round with 2 predicting the Bills would take Whitner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Really? Mock drafts that were done within a week of the draft? 57th? Really? My advice is to change the mocks you read. holcomb's arm is full of sh--, like usual. Here's a list of mocks from just prior to draft day 2006. Most of them have Whitner being selected between 15-25. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/mock.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 For a Strong Safety, Whitner is excellent in coverage. Somehow, you got your facts confused. He is rarely thrown on, when he has primary coverage responsibility. He isn't a CB, and is not a lock-down corer, like Winfield, but no SS is. I always felt that the Bills could put Winfield in one-on-one coverage against the other team's best WR, and be okay. I'm not saying Winfield would shut him down completely, but at least he would ensure that, over the course of the game, the WR's production wouldn't get out of hand. I don't have the same confidence about Whitner's coverage ability with respect to TEs. If a TE is known for being a good pass catcher, and if Whitner is on one-on-one coverage throughout the game, I don't really feel like I can count on Whitner to keep that TE's production down to a reasonable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 holcomb's arm is full of sh--, like usual. Here's a list of mocks from just prior to draft day 2006. Most of them have Whitner being selected between 15-25. http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/mock.html One of the reasons I refused to discuss issues with him, in the past, is his intellectual dishonesty. He has gotten better, IMO, but this is a big violation, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 One of the reasons I refused to discuss issues with him, in the past, is his intellectual dishonesty. He has gotten better, IMO, but this is a big violation, IMO. Intellectual dishonesty is an extremely serious accusation. In my earlier post, I wrote that "Most of the mock drafts I saw for 2006 had Whitner going 57th overall, to Kansas City." Note that I didn't claim to have made a comprehensive study of mock drafts. A while back, in some other discussion, I did a Google search, came across a few mock drafts, and saw that most of the results I'd come up with had Whitner going 54th (not 57th, as I'd misstated earlier) overall to Kansas City. I also remembered that Vic Carucci had said that he personally didn't have Whitner rated as a first round talent. However, Carucci was quick to add that Whitner's usefulness was dependent on the scheme in which he was being used. After having seen the mock drafts Ramius has found, I believe I was a little quick to jump to a conclusion about the consensus draft projections for Whitner. While one of the mock drafts I opened didn't include Whitner at all (even in the second round), there were others which had him projected as a mid-to-late first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Intellectual dishonesty is an extremely serious accusation. In my earlier post, I wrote that "Most of the mock drafts I saw for 2006 had Whitner going 57th overall, to Kansas City." Note that I didn't claim to have made a comprehensive study of mock drafts. A while back, in some other discussion, I did a Google search, came across a few mock drafts, and saw that most of the results I'd come up with had Whitner going 54th (not 57th, as I'd misstated earlier) overall to Kansas City. I also remembers that Vic Carucci had said that he personally didn't have Whitner rated as a first round talent. However, Carucci was quick to add that Whitner's usefulness was dependent on the scheme in which he was being used. After having seen the mock drafts Ramius has found, I believe I was a little quick to jump to a conclusion about the consensus draft projections for Whitner. While one of the mock drafts I opened didn't include Whitner at all (even in the second round), there were others which had him projected as a mid-to-late first round pick. Good enough explanation for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 What? Hey Dean, Well, he missed 3 games this year, and wasn't he playing with a bad knee also. Got toasted pretty good 1 game I think in pass coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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