Murtha: OK to send Gitmo prisoners to Pennsylvania.

[Dan]

I really don't understand why they don't put GPS implants in each of these guys, release them, and then blow up the training camps that they go back to. It seems so simple.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

To "turn on each other"? Once again, your inability to see reality has reared its head.

 

 

Darin, here is the problem I take issue with you...and please no insults.

The problem is that these are are not traditional POWs that are fighting for a country.

Most soldiers fighting for their country should not be tortured or treated inhumanly after all most soldiers were drafted or were just part of a process.

 

But we are talking about terrorists...fanatical savages who want you, me and every US citizen dead dead dead...and willing to die to kill more of us which makes them more dangerous. There is nothing that we can say or do that will make them act more civilized towards us. To them, we are the "devil" and need to be destroyed. We are Allah's enemy. This is why closing Gitmo and removing ALL torture has exposed us and weakened us today. What image have we tarnished in the world by conducting torture to gain information that saves lives? What do I or sensible people care what socialist panzy-ass Europe thinks or the other savage Middle eastern countries think? They hate America whether we stop torture or not. The true democracies in the world look to America to lead them against terrorism and we failed them today.

[DC Tom]

Actually, there's a better than average chance that many in Gitmo aren't guilty of anything. In June of this past year the Supreme Court ruled that detainees had the right to habeas corpus hearings. The majority of the hearings so far ended up concluding many of these men have been illegally detained.

 

Rulings of Improper Detentions as the Bush Era Closes

 

 

 

Absolutely there are terrorists in Gitmo that should remain behind bars. However, their detention must be legitimized by trying them in a court of law. Close it. Try them and show the world that they are in fact guilty of terrorism. Liberty and justice for all isn't a hard concept to grasp.

 

Their detention can't be legitimized in a court of law, because as combattants captured in combat against the US military, they aren't subject to domestic US law. Their detention in the US justice system is illegitimate on its face by at least two different standards (international law, and constitutional protections against illegal search and seizure).

[VABills]

I really don't understand why they don't put GPS implants in each of these guys, release them, and then blow up the training camps that they go back to. It seems so simple.

That would play real well in the press when one was found?

 

Also, stop watching movies. Things you see there aren't alway real or as easy as they look.

[Keukasmallie]

So we're closing the prison at NS Guantanimo Bay Cuba and considering moving the prisoners to prisons at military bases in three states? Seems like a decisive change in policy to me. No wonder the intricacies of it evaded George Bush for years.

[Dan]

That would play real well in the press when one was found?

 

Also, stop watching movies. Things you see there aren't alway real or as easy as they look.

I can put a GPS chip in my dog. What's the difference?

[VABills]

I can put a GPS chip in my dog. What's the difference?

You have a GPS chip in your dog that you can track with satellites?

 

Or do you have one of those microchips that has to be hand scanned by the shelter when they find him?

 

And even if the technology exists, do you not think they won't know they were implanted and would have it removed the instant they left?

 

[/dev/null]

And even if the technology exists, do you not think they won't know they were implanted and would have it removed the instant they left?

 

But Scully had a chip implanted and didn't realize it until a couple seasons later

[VABills]

But Scully had a chip implanted and didn't realize it until a couple seasons later

stop watching TV.

 

I figured he was taking this from the movie Red Dawn where the kid swallows the tracking device and the ruskies followed him back to base camp.

[Alaska Darin]

Darin, here is the problem I take issue with you...and please no insults.

Me? Insult?

The problem is that these are are not traditional POWs that are fighting for a country.

Most soldiers fighting for their country should not be tortured or treated inhumanly after all most soldiers were drafted or were just part of a process.

"Most"..."Should not be"...

 

So which ones should be?

But we are talking about terrorists...fanatical savages who want you, me and every US citizen dead dead dead...and willing to die to kill more of us which makes them more dangerous. There is nothing that we can say or do that will make them act more civilized towards us. To them, we are the "devil" and need to be destroyed. We are Allah's enemy. This is why closing Gitmo and removing ALL torture has exposed us and weakened us today. What image have we tarnished in the world by conducting torture to gain information that saves lives? What do I or sensible people care what socialist panzy-ass Europe thinks or the other savage Middle eastern countries think? They hate America whether we stop torture or not. The true democracies in the world look to America to lead them against terrorism and we failed them today.

Terrorism is a tool. You don't stamp it out by snatching people up, moving them thousands of miles, penning them up, then interrogating them for years on end. In fact, you create more of them because they leave people behind who care about them or their nationality and don't see the big picture. If some foreign power grabbed your brother and took him off to an island somewhere, waterboarded him, then kept him incarcerated for years, what would be your reaction?

 

Most Americans would appeal to our government to rattle their saber and eventually get something done. But that's because THIS IS AMERICA and we do things a certain way. Well so do other people. Their traditions are a little less evolved.

 

I think the vast majority of people who think "torture" and "incarcerating people without due process" are OK don't have the life or world experience to make those decisions.

[/dev/null]

stop watching TV.

 

I figured he was taking this from the movie Red Dawn where the kid swallows the tracking device and the ruskies followed him back to base camp.

 

Wolverines!

[Boomer860]

Look at you, chipping away another layer on your way to "Magnificent Mouthbreather". That the best you got, Sparky?

You are starting to babble.

[Alaska Darin]

You are starting to babble.

Finally, something you're actually qualified to discuss. Feel free to continue.

[Booster4324]

Finally, something you're actually qualified to discuss. Feel free to continue.

 

 

 

Ok, I don't like you, but that was good.

 

BTW fairly sure Boomer is "The Whale" or Blubber boy as I remember him.

[Boomer860]

Finally, something you're actually qualified to discuss. Feel free to continue.

I must admit that was a good one . Now finish your home work.

[Dan]

You have a GPS chip in your dog that you can track with satellites?

 

Or do you have one of those microchips that has to be hand scanned by the shelter when they find him?

 

And even if the technology exists, do you not think they won't know they were implanted and would have it removed the instant they left?

 

linkage 1

linkage 2

 

Red Dawn was clearly well ahead of its time. If the government doesn't have this stuff perfected by now, they're wasting your tax dollars. The device is painless and under the skin, it can't be seen. So, they don't know they've been lo-jacked. Again, simple... jack 'em, release 'em, track 'em back to the nest, one cellulose bomb from a drone. Clean and easy.

[VABills]

linkage 1

linkage 2

 

Red Dawn was clearly well ahead of its time. If the government doesn't have this stuff perfected by now, they're wasting your tax dollars. The device is painless and under the skin, it can't be seen. So, they don't know they've been lo-jacked. Again, simple... jack 'em, release 'em, track 'em back to the nest, one cellulose bomb from a drone. Clean and easy.

That's not what was inserted into your dog. The thing in your dog is scanned and about the size of a piece of rice.

 

 

This thing is 2 and a half inches long. Someone will know it's there. And again, it would be removed first chance I had if I was a bad guy. It is also induction powered which means there is a proximity power supply.

 

Neither of which can be "easily installed" and undetectable.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

Me? Insult?

 

"Most"..."Should not be"...

 

So which ones should be?

 

Terrorism is a tool. You don't stamp it out by snatching people up, moving them thousands of miles, penning them up, then interrogating them for years on end. In fact, you create more of them because they leave people behind who care about them or their nationality and don't see the big picture. If some foreign power grabbed your brother and took him off to an island somewhere, waterboarded him, then kept him incarcerated for years, what would be your reaction?

 

Most Americans would appeal to our government to rattle their saber and eventually get something done. But that's because THIS IS AMERICA and we do things a certain way. Well so do other people. Their traditions are a little less evolved.

 

I think the vast majority of people who think "torture" and "incarcerating people without due process" are OK don't have the life or world experience to make those decisions.

 

Correct 'most' and 'should not' because there are no absolutes in life.

 

My brother doesn't plan to or intend to fly planes into skyscrapers and if he did I expect another country to look for him halfway across the world and put him away for life. And whatever consequences befall him whether it is torture or tea-time at noon will be his problem. I assume you expect America to provide tea time to appease the savages.

 

Are you liberals from another planet? Are you pod people--is your body just a shell for something else that exists inside? I really really don't understand you. Not trying to be insulting I just don't understand you.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Correct 'most' and 'should not' because there are no absolutes in life.

 

My brother doesn't plan to or intend to fly planes into skyscrapers and if he did I expect another country to look for him halfway across the world and put him away for life. And whatever consequences befall him whether it is torture or tea-time at noon will be his problem. I assume you expect America to provide tea time to appease the savages.

 

Are you liberals from another planet? Are you pod people--is your body just a shell for something else that exists inside? I really really don't understand you. Not trying to be insulting I just don't understand you.

 

And I don't usterstand how you're so willing to just crumple up the writs of the Geneva Convention and toss them in the trash because you think there's a more efficient way to get people to talk. We can get information and intelligence from terrorists without selling our soul to do it.

[Dan]

That's not what was inserted into your dog. The thing in your dog is scanned and about the size of a piece of rice.

 

 

This thing is 2 and a half inches long. Someone will know it's there. And again, it would be removed first chance I had if I was a bad guy. It is also induction powered which means there is a proximity power supply.

 

Neither of which can be "easily installed" and undetectable.

Details... details. That article was from 2003. The other was a patent application from 2007. Th technology has progressed. And those aren't even the top secret government developed units.

 

Put it in their face. They never shave; therefore, they'll never see it. Or arm pit - no one's gettin too close to one of those guy's pits. Simple. The only thing I don't understand is why they're not doing this.

[VABills]

Details... details. That article was from 2003. The other was a patent application from 2007. Th technology has progressed. And those aren't even the top secret government developed units.

 

Put it in their face. They never shave; therefore, they'll never see it. Or arm pit - no one's gettin too close to one of those guy's pits. Simple. The only thing I don't understand is why they're not doing this.

You ignored my original arguments.

 

How are you going to implant them with these magic beans without them knowing?

 

And what do you say to the media when they find out? And they will find out because they always find out.

 

I know you'll magically say that Bush ordered it and forgot to tell the Messiah. Therefore since there wasn't an order to countermand it went forward.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

And I don't usterstand how you're so willing to just crumple up the writs of the Geneva Convention and toss them in the trash because you think there's a more efficient way to get people to talk. We can get information and intelligence from terrorists without selling our soul to do it.

 

I'm not concerned about the health of these "people." I'd be more worried about your family than our so-called image and some silly Geneva convention... there is nothing conventional about this "new" kind of war.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

I'm not concerned about the health of these "people." I'd be more worried about your family than our so-called image and some silly Geneva convention... there is nothing conventional about this "new" kind of war.

 

That "silly Geneva Convention" set international laws for treatment of prisoners of war and we ratified it...which means we should abide by it. Call me old fashioned.

[Dan]

You ignored my original arguments.

 

How are you going to implant them with these magic beans without them knowing?

 

And what do you say to the media when they find out? And they will find out because they always find out.

 

I know you'll magically say that Bush ordered it and forgot to tell the Messiah. Therefore since there wasn't an order to countermand it went forward.

A little anesthesia and it's a simple and quick procedure. Those guys would think it's just some new form of torture or something and just be glad it didn't involve water.

 

Where's the evidence? It's all destroyed when the "bombs" land.

 

Great plausible deniability... I like it. Bush ordered it. But we've decided in the interest of bi-partisanship that we're not investigating or looking into criminal charges. Obama has already said that. So, it all wraps neatly up. Good idea.

[Alaska Darin]

Correct 'most' and 'should not' because there are no absolutes in life.

Good. You are capable of learning.

My brother doesn't plan to or intend to fly planes into skyscrapers and if he did I expect another country to look for him halfway across the world and put him away for life. And whatever consequences befall him whether it is torture or tea-time at noon will be his problem. I assume you expect America to provide tea time to appease the savages.

So which person currently incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay has actually flown or intended to fly a plane into a skyscraper? You don't actually know, nor does anyone else because our government isn't telling anyone. They're simply taking people into custody and not letting them out.

 

But when your gang of thieves was in charge, you trusted that they wouldn't take people into custody who don't deserve it Is your thought process the same now that Nancy Pelosi could be the one signing the order?

Are you liberals from another planet? Are you pod people--is your body just a shell for something else that exists inside? I really really don't understand you. Not trying to be insulting I just don't understand you.

Now I'm a liberal. That's just awesome. You're a friggin' idiot.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

Good. You are capable of learning.

 

So which person currently incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay has actually flown or intended to fly a plane into a skyscraper? You don't actually know, nor does anyone else because our government isn't telling anyone. They're simply taking people into custody and not letting them out.

 

But when your gang of thieves was in charge, you trusted that they wouldn't take people into custody who don't deserve it Is your thought process the same now that Nancy Pelosi could be the one signing the order?

 

Now I'm a liberal. That's just awesome. You're a friggin' idiot.

 

 

You're right. I am a friggin idiot for thinking I would get anywhere talking to someone who worries about detained terrorists.

 

Yeah..let's all be humanitarians (violins playing) and release them. Those poor prisoners--they did nothing wrong..I'm sure they're completely innocent. I know...let's give them those construction jobs and full benefits the whites can't have. Maybe we can have one of them White House balls for them..I'm sure the Hollywood ilk will show up and want to party with them. The theme--Hate Bush and love my terrorists! Yup, I'm an idiot.

[Wacka]

That "silly Geneva Convention" set international laws for treatment of prisoners of war and we ratified it...which means we should abide by it. Call me old fashioned.

 

Not this crap again :lol:

They are NOT POWs and therefore ARE NOT UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

Not this crap again :lol:

They are NOT POWs and therefore ARE NOT UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION.

 

That's what i said...but I'm the friggin' idiot.

 

Maybe every lib who wants them freed should have them stay at their house as one of them European student-nanny types--you know those pretty 19 year old girls visiting for a few months (what do you call them?).

 

Mother: So Ahib-ALi Kalil, I'm going to run some errands, would you watch my twin two-year olds? I should be back soon. If they cry, just sing them Yankee Doodle Dandy...they like that song. By the way, do you like snacks? People magazine? I just have to say, it is so nice to have some one from another culture sharing my home with us. It's so enlightening!

 

(Mother leaves).

 

Ahib: DEATH TO AMERICA!

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

That's what i said...but I'm the friggin' idiot.

 

Maybe every lib who wants them freed should have them stay at their house as one of them European student-nanny types--you know those pretty 19 year old girls visiting for a few months (what do you call them?).

 

Mother: So Ahib-ALi Kalil, I'm going to run some errands, would you watch my twin two-year olds? I should be back soon. If they cry, just sing them Yankee Doodle Dandy...they like that song. By the way, do you like snacks? People magazine? I just have to say, it is so nice to have some one from another culture sharing my home with us. It's so enlightening!

 

(Mother leaves).

 

Ahib: DEATH TO AMERICA!

 

Yeah, all liberals want them freed. That's what we said. Apparently, "not tortured" is synonymous with "set free"...and that little dialogue of yours is soooo clever and apropos to the conversation.

[Boomer860]

Yeah, all liberals want them freed. That's what we said. Apparently, "not tortured" is synonymous with "set free"...and that little dialogue of yours is soooo clever and apropos to the conversation.

You have been deceived by Obama and his minions. And while we are at it why should we close the prision at Gitmo ? Gitmo is ours we own it .

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

Yeah, all liberals want them freed. That's what we said. Apparently, "not tortured" is synonymous with "set free"...and that little dialogue of yours is soooo clever and apropos to the conversation.

 

I thought it was clever. Although not exactly like how you made fun of the last president for the last eight years...you know in that vindictive humorless way that your kind breeds. I was not a huge supporter of Bush..but I respected the title and the position.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Not this crap again :lol:

They are NOT POWs and therefore ARE NOT UNDER THE GENEVA CONVENTION.

 

In 2006, the supreme court ruled (Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld) that the detainees at Gitmo were protected by Common Article 3 of the G.C. That includes torture.

[Jim in Anchorage]

Yeah, all liberals want them freed. That's what we said. Apparently, "not tortured" is synonymous with "set free"...and that little dialogue of yours is soooo clever and apropos to the conversation.

Tortured? I think most frat houses do worse.True torture is when you maim someone for life, and I don't think playing Jimi Hendrix all night qualifies.

[Dan]

In 2006, the supreme court ruled (Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld) that the detainees at Gitmo were protected by Common Article 3 of the G.C. That includes torture.

Hamdan Rocks!!

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Tortured? I think most frat houses do worse.True torture is when you maim someone for life, and I don't think playing Jimi Hendrix all night qualifies.

 

Oh yea? How about waterboarding? I know my frat didn't do that to me when I pledged. And yes, sensory/sleep deprivation DOES qualify.

[Alaska Darin]

You're right. I am a friggin idiot for thinking I would get anywhere talking to someone who worries about detained terrorists.

I'm not worried about detaining terrorists. I'm worried about detaining innocent people. If they're terrorists, charge them, try them, convict them, sentence them. That's what AMERICA does.

Yeah..let's all be humanitarians (violins playing) and release them. Those poor prisoners--they did nothing wrong..I'm sure they're completely innocent. I know...let's give them those construction jobs and full benefits the whites can't have. Maybe we can have one of them White House balls for them..I'm sure the Hollywood ilk will show up and want to party with them. The theme--Hate Bush and love my terrorists! Yup, I'm an idiot.

If that's what you're basing your "process" on, then you absolutely are an idiot. I love how everything has to be completely devoid of reality. That's right, everyone who wants Guantanamo Bay closed certainly wants to offer citizenship, "full benefits that whites can't have", etc. And we all love terrorists.

 

It's not because I've studied history and I realize how dangerous it is to give ANY government the ability to put people in prison forever without charges. That's almost never led to abuse.

 

Try some Midol. Maybe then you'll be able to step back and actually look at the situation without the stupid goddamn rhetoric.

[Boomer860]

I'm not worried about detaining terrorists. I'm worried about detaining innocent people. If they're terrorists, charge them, try them, convict them, sentence them. That's what AMERICA does.

 

If that's what you're basing your "process" on, then you absolutely are an idiot. I love how everything has to be completely devoid of reality. That's right, everyone who wants Guantanamo Bay closed certainly wants to offer citizenship, "full benefits that whites can't have", etc. And we all love terrorists.

 

It's not because I've studied history and I realize how dangerous it is to give ANY government the ability to put people in prison forever without charges. That's almost never led to abuse.

 

Try some Midol. Maybe then you'll be able to step back and actually look at the situation without the stupid goddamn rhetoric.

If they were on the battelfield then that's where they should have stayed ...DEAD. And yes you are a bleeding heart liberal. Their countries do not want them back.

[Alaska Darin]

If they were on the battelfield then that's where they should have stayed ...DEAD.

If? You mean all of them weren't? Oh, you don't know the answer so you're posing hypotheticals.

And yes you are a bleeding heart liberal.

You hear that Debbie? I'm just like you!

Their countries do not want them back.

I'm glad you're able to speak for them. Or is this an example of a conservative believing what the "liberal media" is telling them because it suits your ridiculous position?

[DC Tom]

In 2006, the supreme court ruled (Hamdan vs. Rumsfeld) that the detainees at Gitmo were protected by Common Article 3 of the G.C. That includes torture.

 

Actually, that's not what the decision was. The decision was that the military tribunals as established didn't meet the requirements of the UCMJ and Geneva Convention, specifically pertaining to detainees being brought up before a tribunal before their POW status was determined (both the UCMJ and Geneva Conventions require a detainee of indeterminate status to have their status as a POW established, positively or negatively, before any other proceedings take place.)

 

It's also a complete rat's nest of a decision, particularly when combined with Rasul v. Bush and thus simultaneously AND ILLEGALLY providing the contradictory protections of habeas corpus and the Geneva Convention. Both decisions combined nicely outline the simple fact that no one knows who or what laws or treaties have any jurisdiction over these gomers.

[JPDontletthedoorhityourars]

I'm not worried about detaining terrorists. I'm worried about detaining innocent people. If they're terrorists, charge them, try them, convict them, sentence them. That's what AMERICA does.

 

If that's what you're basing your "process" on, then you absolutely are an idiot. I love how everything has to be completely devoid of reality. That's right, everyone who wants Guantanamo Bay closed certainly wants to offer citizenship, "full benefits that whites can't have", etc. And we all love terrorists.

 

It's not because I've studied history and I realize how dangerous it is to give ANY government the ability to put people in prison forever without charges. That's almost never led to abuse.

 

Try some Midol. Maybe then you'll be able to step back and actually look at the situation without the stupid goddamn rhetoric.

 

 

Darin, who did you learn your history from--Bill Ayers, and all those 'wack job' college professors MSNBC trudges on their lunatic broadcasts? Wasn't Gitmo around for Bill Clinton too? I didn't hear the libs worrying about detainees then? Why does it become a problem only after 3000 dead New Yorkers and few hundred others in PA and DC? Is it because your ilk likes terrorists and you want America destroyed? That's why you hate Bush! Because he protects Americans...you fukking traitor!

Breshnev was right..the enemy is inside America--it's the fukking liberals and their alien (as in pod people) thinking!