Solomon Grundy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Our #2 WR is fine. I don't know why you think a TE will make our O so much better. Look at the 4 teams still alive, Eagles and Cardinals rarely use their TE. Ravens TE is no better than mediocre. Heath Miller is good but does not make the Steelers great. It is the QB! All 4 teams have a better one than us. Until we get some solid QB play we will have trouble taking it to the next level. QB is the most important position, I love Leodis but Flacco would be looking pretty sweet in a Bill uniform right about NOW! Look at what Penningtondid for the Fish, and he is just good not great! Cardinals have two GREAT WR's and a tight end that when he does get the ball thrown to him doesn't drop it or turn it over. Todd Heap for the Ravens isn't a slouch. He was the cog on their offense that got them to the Super Bowl and eventually won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonawanda Troy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 You can't build a team around a mediocre "cerebral" QB and expect your defense to carrry you to a championship. A team might luck out and get there if every single thing goes their way, but in those very, very rare occasions where it happened the team lost. There isn't a single QB on the winning side of the past 20 Superbowls that Edwards will ever be better than. I just don't see it. In my opinion this team needs a legitimate franchise QB just to compete. Finally someone who gets it! We need a franchise QB, have'nt had one since Kelly. And I suppose he did'nt play a huge part in our success back then, must have been the coaches. He's not in the Hall of Fame for nothing! Do you guys think Trents heading there?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Who needs to go? Turk or Trent? I say its the players that make plays and win games 90%, coaching and play calling 10%. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think both can stay. What we need is to upgrade our OL with players that are more athletic, that can continue their blocking assignments down field to keep the play going and also to be able to pull and run some sweeps along with some screens. This I know can't happen overnite. How about a strength and conditioning coach that can whip the Oline into shape? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Who needs to go? Turk or Trent? I say its the players that make plays and win games 90%, coaching and play calling 10%. So...... I'll go with getting a new QB, since we can't call 1-800-quarterback we should go for a veteran free agent like Warner or Collins AND take another stab in the draft. You never know maybe we can luck out in the 6th round with the next Tom Brady! Yup. Always take the 500 to one shot in the sixth round and expect a Brady. Or the 30 to one shot FA QB. Never the five to one shot of your QB who shows some signs of improvement and potential but will take another year or two to develop. Never do that. It's too risky. Of course we need an FA QB, possibly one to compete with Trent. But largely to fill the #2 hole and help Trent develop. Young QBs in mediocre situations take a while to develop, they just do. If you don't give them a chance, you develop them into the next Losman, David Carr, Joey Harrington, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonawanda Troy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Todd Heap for the Ravens isn't a slouch. He was the cog on their offense that got them to the Super Bowl and eventually won. That was the ignorant comment of the day, do you remember a guy named Shannon Sharpe! Heap was drafted in 2001! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 What are you looking for in a second WR? A heart, liver, kidneys. Yesterday's hot dog, salad and coke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Are you serious????? Who do you think will still be in the league 10 years from now, Flacco or Edwards? Flacco has all the tools, Edwards does not! Dilfer was a high first rounder coming out and was not asked to do much when he got to the Ravens. If our defense is ever as good as that Raven D was(record for fewest points scored against) maybe Edwards could manage his way to the Superbowl. I think Dilfer was a better QB than Edwards will ever be, you can't hold his Buc years against him. No one could win with that team back then. We can officially anouint Troy a "Trent Edwards hater" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Anyone else think that Flacco & Edwards were separated at birth? Yes, the QB is a pretty darn important position, but if Trent Dilfer can win a Super Bowl..... I also agree that the 4 teams left rarely use their TE, but the 3 of the 4 teams left are there because of their defenses. Only Arizona is there because of their QB...and a terrible game by their last opponent's QB. That terrible game from the opponent's QB was largely because of the awesome defenses. You win championships with defense in the huge majority of cases. However, you still need a consistent intelligent game handler at QB, at least, and if those three defensively oriented teams still in the playoffs hadn't had that type of QB, they wouldn't still be in the playoffs. Obviously, you don't need a TE. But it doesn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I just don't see how anyone can write off Edwards just yet. There were times early this season when the team was having trouble running the football, and Edwards successfully carried the offense. I know some will argue that the opponents he faced during that 5-1 stretch were odious. However, he played a near perfect game against the Chargers, the same same Chargers team that did a pretty good job holding Peyton Manning in check in the Wild Card game a couple of weeks back. Edwards certainly hit a major speed bump after that in the divisional games and showed a weakness facing 3-4 defenses. The question will be whether or not he can adapt/adjust and continue to progress. The young man clearly has the smarts and (yes) the necessary physical tools to get the job done. If we don't see a positive progression by the end of the 2009 season, then perhaps we do need to look elsewhere. One thing that would help, I believe, is bringing in a smart veteran backup that can help him -- rather than the uncoachable likes of JP Losman. I am also not sold on AVP at QB Coach either. True, he served as a rookie in that capacity and may get better with experience. The same goes for Turk. The key is that these guys need to get together and formulate a game plan that will allow them to best take advantage of the 3-4 defensive schemes that prevail in the division. After all, the way to get into the playoffs is to figure out a way to beat the teams in your division, right? Of course, some of that may involve changes in personnel, especially Center and TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I absolutely hate this argument, as it picks a single outlier and uses it to suggest that it could happen again. If we look back at the Superbowl QBs of the past twenty years the reality is you will almost always lose or never even get there with a "game managing" QB who also doesn't have some other major skill sets. They are listed winning QB/losing QB. 1988 Williams/Elway 1989 Montana/Esiason 1990 Montana/Elway 1991 Hostetler/Kelly 1992 Rypien/Kelly 1993 Aikman/Kelly 1994 Aikman/Kelly 1995 Young/Humphries 1996 Aikman/O'Donnell 1997 Farve/Bledsoe 1998 Elway/Farve 1999 Elway/Chandler (had a Probowl year) 2000 Warner/McNair 2001 Dilfer/Collins 2002 Brady/Warner 2003 Johnson (Probowl year)/Gannon 2004 Brady/Delhomme 2005 Brady/McNabb 2006 Rothlesberger/Hasselbeck 2007 P.Manning/Grossman 2008 E.Manning/Brady How many pure game managers without also having significant skills are on that list? Maybe five, and that's debatable. How many of them ended up on the winning side? The Dilfer example is foolish as that Ravens team had one of the top defensive units in the history of the NFL. Teams need a QB who is a leader and who also can put the team on his back and will them to victory over certain stretches of the season. You can't build a team around a mediocre "cerebral" QB and expect your defense to carrry you to a championship. A team might luck out and get there if every single thing goes their way, but in those very, very rare occasions where it happened the team lost. There isn't a single QB on the winning side of the past 20 Superbowls that Edwards will ever be better than. I just don't see it. In my opinion this team needs a legitimate franchise QB just to compete. Johnny, now go through that same list and name all of the good to great tight ends all the WINNING QB's had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 LMAO you don't honestly believe coaching is only 10% ??? the entire offensive scheme and 100% of th eplay calling is coaching. Its coaches that makes sure the team is prepared every week, and knows there roles. Its coaching that is responsible for who sits and who plays and who gets the calls. Its coaching who is responsible for players perfroming to the top of their abilities. Trent Edwards did well in his 1st full year at QB. No team in the league would abandon Trent Edwards as a QB for their team after 1 year. A QB takes a few years to develope fully, and we have very VERY obvious coaching problems to boot. Great coaching can often win you a game or two a year. That's all. Wildly incompetent coaching could possibly lose you five or six, but our coaching is NOT wildly incompetent. The most it does is possibly lose us a game or two a year. Or possibly it just appears that it does. We have room for significant improvement in coaching, QB play, personnel at C and 2nd wideout particularly but also at TE. In other words, lots of room for improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 ignorant statement of the day. If we can't hold Dilfers Buc years against him then obvioulsy we can't hold Edwards bills days against him for the exact same reason. Edwards is right on track with his development. Go look at Peyton Mannings stats for his 1st year as a starter, go look at Eli mannings 1st year as a starter... go look at many of the great QB's 1st year stats, and then compare them to trents the Bills do not need to draft a QB, they need a vet backup and they need to bolster their OL and DL and upgrade the OLB position. Dude, that was Trent's second year. Nice try, though. When you compare Trent's second year to P. Manning's, um, there are a few differences. Still, you have to give Trent a chance to continue for another year or two. But the fact that he's right on track means he's wildly inconsistent and could become a Carr or a stronger-armed Pennington or anything in between. We just don't know yet, as you almost never do at this point in his development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonawanda Troy Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 We can officially anouint Troy a "Trent Edwards hater" I don't hate Trent, I just despise losing seasons! Trent has 18 TD's and 18 INT's in 24 games. I just think we need a guy who can throw 25TD's or more per season to give us a chance. Don't bame it on play calling, I want someone who can go vertical not just dink and dunk. I want someone with a big body and big arm to back teams up and open up the run game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 That was the ignorant comment of the day, do you remember a guy named Shannon Sharpe! Heap was drafted in 2001! Thank you smart guy!! You just answered your own ridiculous statement you made earlier about the tight end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Finally someone who gets it! We need a franchise QB, have'nt had one since Kelly. And I suppose he did'nt play a huge part in our success back then, must have been the coaches. He's not in the Hall of Fame for nothing! Do you guys think Trents heading there?? Too early to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I just don't see how anyone can write off Edwards just yet. There were times early this season when the team was having trouble running the football, and Edwards successfully carried the offense. I know some will argue that the opponents he faced during that 5-1 stretch were odious. However, he played a near perfect game against the Chargers, the same same Chargers team that did a pretty good job holding Peyton Manning in check in the Wild Card game a couple of weeks back. I'm sorry, but that was NOT the same Chargers team. That team was much worse when we played them. They got hot and got better at the right time. But they were not playing at anywhere close to the same level earlier in the season when they played us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thank you smart guy!! You just answered your own ridiculous statement you made earlier about the tight end. He said that this year's Ravens haven't needed a TE and then he answered himself by saying that the Ravens a few years ago had a very good TE? Must have missed the part where he answered himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm sorry, but that was NOT the same Chargers team. That team was much worse when we played them. They got hot and got better at the right time. But they were not playing at anywhere close to the same level earlier in the season when they played us. Another Trent Hater!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I'm just not all that impressed with a QB who failed to crack 200 yards in 5 of his last 6 games this season and who has thrown for multiple TDs all of 3 times in his 24 career games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I don't hate Trent, I just despise losing seasons! Trent has 18 TD's and 18 INT's in 24 games. I just think we need a guy who can throw 25TD's or more per season to give us a chance. Don't bame it on play calling, I want someone who can go vertical not just dink and dunk. I want someone with a big body and big arm to back teams up and open up the run game! You don't get that guy in his second year with our personnel and coaching limitations. You just don't. You hang in there and watch to see whether the personnel and coaching develops, and more important, whether the QB develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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