Bailout VS UAW

[Alaska Darin]

Plus, even though that matrix looking car may have some bells and whistles.... it would be expensive to run. Diesel is still pretty expensive.

Maybe if you're talking about what a gallon costs but in the long run (ie maintenance, life cycle, mileage, etc) diesel is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than gasoline. But you're a liberal, so it's pretty likely that you don't actually understand the impact of long versus short term.

[DC Tom]

With fuel economy like that, police officers will be better-equipped to do their jobs.

 

"I could have stopped this convenience store burglary, if only I got eight more miles to the gallon!"

[RLflutie7]

Very insightful article. Thanks for posting. Let's see how the Union apologists feel about this.

 

What a travesty this whole situation is. It's really a shame.

 

 

The union is doing the right thing.

 

They are waiting for the last possible moment before they act. They are waiting for TARP to kick in if they don't get bailout money.

 

Actually, the union and the White House have been together on this and that's a good thing.

 

 

The union is right to buy some time. All three CEOs and the union chief went to Washington to see if they could get bailout money.

 

There's no reason to cave in to these southern Senators because they want to union bust. I don't think the union should give away the benefits that the older retired people get.

 

People complain about legacy costs, wait until you get old and don't tell me about 401K's saving the day. They won't.

 

And where has the talk about buyouts gone?

 

They worked. The UAW people took them. Why not offer them now? It seems to me to be the fair way to go.

 

$150K and out the door to both former and current employees. It seems it worked once, why not again?

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

And where has the talk about buyouts gone?

 

They worked. The UAW people took them. Why not offer them now? It seems to me to be the fair way to go.

 

$150K and out the door to both former and current employees. It seems it worked once, why not again?

 

Buyouts were fine when the automakers had time and money. Now, they have neither. I don't think we'll be seeing lots of worker buyouts anytime soon.

 

The other buyout that is going to disappear is the dealer buyout. In the past, when a dealer closed, the car manufacturer and the other dealers in the area came in and put together buyout packages for the dealer that was closing. In lots of cases, they got to walk away with 500k and were off the hook for their property lease, etc. I don't see this happening anymore either. Dealers are going to have to close down the old fashioned way...Chapter 7.

[RLflutie7]

Buyouts were fine when the automakers had time and money. Now, they have neither. I don't think we'll be seeing lots of worker buyouts anytime soon.

 

The other buyout that is going to disappear is the dealer buyout. In the past, when a dealer closed, the car manufacturer and the other dealers in the area came in and put together buyout packages for the dealer that was closing. In lots of cases, they got to walk away with 500k and were off the hook for their property lease, etc. I don't see this happening anymore either. Dealers are going to have to close down the old fashioned way...Chapter 7.

 

 

So basically tons of businesses (car dealerships) all over the country are being wiped out because of Wall Street.

 

I did a google of "dealership closing" not too long ago and some dealers were happy, while others were sad because they spent their whole life selling cars and building their businesses. Those people built their businesses and they wanted to pass them along to their children. Now it's never going to happen. I don't think banks are going to give these people money to go independent. Whatever happened to loyalty in this country.

 

This actually was going to happen anyway, but I do believe after doing business for 30 some odd years (in some cases) these business people deserve some sort of compensation.

[KD in CA]

So basically tons of businesses (car dealerships) all over the country are being wiped out because of Wall Street.

Uh, no. Basically ton of car dealerships are being wiped out because the Big 3 have built an unsustainable business model that features sub standard products and uncontrollable expenses. Unless of course you have some explanation for how exactly Wall Street caused GM to lose $50 BILLION over the past 3 years.

 

Seriously, are people just being willfully stupid on this topic?

 

This actually was going to happen anyway, but I do believe after doing business for 30 some odd years (in some cases) these business people deserve some sort of compensation.

Huh? Who exactly do they 'deserve compensation' from? Now we have to compensate anyone who has a business fail?

[SD Jarhead]

The union is doing the right thing.

 

They are waiting for the last possible moment before they act. They are waiting for TARP to kick in if they don't get bailout money.

 

Actually, the union and the White House have been together on this and that's a good thing.

 

 

The union is right to buy some time. All three CEOs and the union chief went to Washington to see if they could get bailout money.

 

There's no reason to cave in to these southern Senators because they want to union bust. I don't think the union should give away the benefits that the older retired people get.

 

People complain about legacy costs, wait until you get old and don't tell me about 401K's saving the day. They won't.

 

And where has the talk about buyouts gone?

 

They worked. The UAW people took them. Why not offer them now? It seems to me to be the fair way to go.

 

$150K and out the door to both former and current employees. It seems it worked once, why not again?

 

All I can say is wow! You are in a different universe than I am. First off, let me be clear, I was not in favor of any of the bailouts. Call me naive, but I feel that the sooner we take our medicine, the sooner the recovery can begin.

 

If you think all of those entitlement you mention above should happen, good for you. Just don't use taxpayer money to do it.

 

The sooner the unions are broken, the sooner Detroit can start being competitive again.

 

My Dad retired from Ford, so I'm not unsympathetic or unfamiliar with the issues, but life is all about competition. The reason the US is what we are is because of our competitive nature. This should never be compromised in my opinion. If the automakers want to remain competitive on the world stage, they had better start making the changes that will make them that way, like, yesterday. The problem is the unions don't get it and are living in the past...just like the people of Buffalo in general. But that's a different thread.

[RLflutie7]

Uh, no. Basically ton of car dealerships are being wiped out because the Big 3 have built an unsustainable business model that features sub standard products and uncontrollable expenses. Unless of course you have some explanation for how exactly Wall Street caused GM to lose $50 BILLION over the past 3 years.

 

Seriously, are people just being willfully stupid on this topic?

 

 

Huh? Who exactly do they 'deserve compensation' from? Now we have to compensate anyone who has a business fail?

 

 

If you can't see how WALL STREET has screwed the entire economic system then you are willfully stupid. As late as 2001 the big three were booking record profits. They were making money hand over fist.

 

They did EVERYTHING right. And I mean EVERYTHING.

 

The american consumer wanted big SUVs. The BIG THREE DID NOT hold a gun to anyones head and make them buy them. YOU the american consumer wanted to buy them. Bling! Bling!

 

After OJ killed Nicole, SUVs started flying off the lots. Because OJ drove a Ford Bronco and Nicole drove a Jeep. Free pub man!

 

Then suddenly, gas prices went to $4 dollars a gallon, because WALL STREET drove the price up with speculation and all of a sudden it's the big three's fault that we don't have small cars.

 

Then, suddenly, gas prices drop because CHINA has decided to go back to riding bikes (YEA RIGHT!). And the American consumer will return to driving big rigs . . . and all will be right with the world.

 

Get a clue!

[SD Jarhead]

If you can't see how WALL STREET has screwed the entire economic system then you are willfully stupid. As late as 2001 the big three were booking record profits. They were making money hand over fist.

 

They did EVERYTHING right. And I mean EVERYTHING.

 

The american consumer wanted big SUVs. The BIG THREE DID NOT hold a gun to anyones head and make them buy them. YOU the american consumer wanted to buy them. Bling! Bling!

 

After OJ killed Nicole, SUVs started flying off the lots. Because OJ drove a Ford Bronco and Nicole drove a Jeep. Free pub man!

 

Then suddenly, gas prices went to $4 dollars a gallon, because WALL STREET drove the price up with speculation and all of a sudden it's the big three's fault that we don't have small cars.

 

Then, suddenly, gas prices drop because CHINA has decided to go back to riding bikes (YEA RIGHT!). And the American consumer will return to driving big rigs . . . and all will be right with the world.

 

Get a clue!

 

 

OK, now you're making sense...

[RLflutie7]

OK, now you're making sense...

 

 

You don't understand what a business partnership means?

 

The dealerships were partnerships with the BIG 3 and now they have to go away suddenly with no compensation. The dealership group I worked for will make it on their own. They never made "bad business decisions" and they have tons of money. However, based on principle, it's only fair to have some sort of buyout.

 

I can understand that things are in dire straits but who got us here.

 

Last night I saw that credit card companies are going to raise the interest rates of their best customers.

 

They had a guy on the TV who said he went from paying 9% to 19% interest on his credit cards. He has perfect credit. What do you think of that?

 

Tough crap for him right?

[RLflutie7]

All I can say is wow! You are in a different universe than I am. First off, let me be clear, I was not in favor of any of the bailouts. Call me naive, but I feel that the sooner we take our medicine, the sooner the recovery can begin.

 

If you think all of those entitlement you mention above should happen, good for you. Just don't use taxpayer money to do it.

 

The sooner the unions are broken, the sooner Detroit can start being competitive again.

 

My Dad retired from Ford, so I'm not unsympathetic or unfamiliar with the issues, but life is all about competition. The reason the US is what we are is because of our competitive nature. This should never be compromised in my opinion. If the automakers want to remain competitive on the world stage, they had better start making the changes that will make them that way, like, yesterday. The problem is the unions don't get it and are living in the past...just like the people of Buffalo in general. But that's a different thread.

 

 

 

OK. I can see your point of view. The truth has come out. "the sooner the unions are broken, the sooner Detroit can start being competitive again."

 

I guess I disagree with that statement more than anything. I think you are in dreamland.

 

It's the downward pressure on wages that has gotten us in this mess. People have been living on credit cards because they don't have the wages to pay for anything and breaking unions will only make it worse.

 

I understand your stance that if the Big 3 had better cost control they could make a better products and people would then be willing to buy their cars and trucks. That's true and I understand the point. It's a good point.

 

But my point is a better point. My point is how can the Big 3 get customers when those customers make a Walmart wage. Walmart wages can't buy anything. And that's what you seem to be missing. Downward pressure on wages is NEVER a good thing.

 

If you want cost control I'm all for that. I'm willing to try it your way. I say the guys can take a $5 to $10 dollar an hour pay cut.

 

However, you can get that cost control in another way. And that way is a buyout.

 

A buyout just like they do in sports. Like when a player gets hurt. Sometimes, teams will have an "injury settlement" and that's fair for both sides. Why not do that with the UAW. Even if it takes government money.

 

Then we can do it your way with the Big 3. And the Big 3 will fail because the general population doesn't have the wages to support 40K cars.

 

But at least we can say they made better cars.

 

Actually that's dumb too. Too me they need to make more stripped down cars. Cars with no radio, no nothing and force the consumer to make better choices that match their income levels. No longer do we need a "house on wheels".

 

Get rid of 5 year loans. Get rid of all the extras that drive the price of a car way beyond the means of most Americans.

 

I have never in my life bought a new car.

 

I haven't had a car loan in 20 years. I did put cars on credit cards though.

[ExiledInIllinois]

I'd rather not pour my grandchildren's money into a failed business model.

 

Well we are pouring it into Iraq gleefully... What the difference with that "failed business model?"

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

When are we going to take our medicine? The longer we avoid the chemo to avoid 'feeling sick' the worse the cancer gets.

 

Even with chemo, you just can't administer it everyday... The body needs to recover or the cure becomes worse than the disease.

 

Don't get me wrong... I do agree with your base argument also.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

I'm all about the E7 - Police Cruiser of the future.

 

Nice to see they have the cupholders for the coffee. Where's the automatic donut dispensers?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

But my point is a better point. My point is how can the Big 3 get customers when those customers make a Walmart wage. Walmart wages can't buy anything. And that's what you seem to be missing. Downward pressure on wages is NEVER a good thing.

 

It's not? Then why on Earth are Chinese-manufactured goods mopping up the floor with American- and European- made goods? Answer for the woefully uninformed: lower labor costs.

[Live&DieBillsFootball]

You don't understand what a business partnership means?

 

The dealerships were partnerships with the BIG 3 and now they have to go away suddenly with no compensation. The dealership group I worked for will make it on their own. They never made "bad business decisions" and they have tons of money. However, based on principle, it's only fair to have some sort of buyout.

 

Again, dealer buyouts were done by the big 3 and the other dealers in the closing dealers area. Do you think that the dealership group that you work for wants to use their "tons of cash" to compensate the other dealers that are failing? I don't see that happening. Neither will the Big 3 have the money to compensate the dealers that are closing.

 

Where do you think the money for dealer buyouts should come from?

[Dante]

If you can't see how WALL STREET has screwed the entire economic system then you are willfully stupid. As late as 2001 the big three were booking record profits. They were making money hand over fist.

 

They did EVERYTHING right. And I mean EVERYTHING.

 

The american consumer wanted big SUVs. The BIG THREE DID NOT hold a gun to anyones head and make them buy them. YOU the american consumer wanted to buy them. Bling! Bling!

 

After OJ killed Nicole, SUVs started flying off the lots. Because OJ drove a Ford Bronco and Nicole drove a Jeep. Free pub man!

 

Then suddenly, gas prices went to $4 dollars a gallon, because WALL STREET drove the price up with speculation and all of a sudden it's the big three's fault that we don't have small cars.

 

Then, suddenly, gas prices drop because CHINA has decided to go back to riding bikes (YEA RIGHT!). And the American consumer will return to driving big rigs . . . and all will be right with the world.

 

Get a clue!

But wouldn't have Wall Street screwed everything up for the Japanese automakers as well?

[pBills]

It's not? Then why on Earth are Chinese-manufactured goods mopping up the floor with American- and European- made goods? Answer for the woefully uninformed: lower labor costs.

 

 

And lower standards.

[pBills]

Now we have to compensate anyone who has a business fail?

 

 

Haven't we been doing that with some of the financial bailout money? Bonuses still going out.

[Boomer860]

We now own the car companies. So where is my free car . F the govt. No wonder they developed an Army unit to put down a domestic revolutioin.