Judge signs order to protect Madoff investors.

[Tux of Borg]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Judge-signs-...f-13838271.html

 

Judge signs order to protect Madoff investors and moves case to bankruptcy court

 

NEW YORK (AP) -- A federal judge has signed an order saying investors who may have been duped in one of Wall Street's biggest frauds need the protection of the Securities Investor Protection Act. Judge Louis Stanton also directed that proceedings to liquidate the assets of Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC be moved to bankruptcy court.

 

The order was signed Monday afternoon after the Securities Investor Protection Corp. submitted papers asking for the protection for investors.

 

Stanton assigned Irvin Picard to preside as trustee over the liquidation.

 

The order came just days after federal prosecutors charged Madoff with securities fraud, saying he had admitted squandering nearly $50 billion from investors in a massive Ponzi scheme.

[Steely Dan]

Squandering $50 billion!!!!!!

 

WTF? If convicted he'll be sent to a prison that houses the non-violent felons.

 

How the hell does anyone squander 50 billion

[UConn James]

Uhpt! Money's gone. Sorry. Up and vanished like a fart in the wind!

 

Here's betting that Madoff has a "heart attack" at the precise best time from a legal standpoint where any remaining assets will be a bear to find or collect. Then, he spends the rest of his days enjoying sunshine and margaritas with Ken Lay in a non-extraditing country. Tell me there's not a witness protection-style program for wealthy cons who buy in.

 

About the only reason the upper-echelon cons get busted and/or face real punishment for white-collar crime is A) if they don't have enough $ to grease enough wheels or B) if they go into it intending to keep it all (or most) for themselves. Occasionally, they run into an honest-broker prosecutor who's not ordered from higher up to drop a case or they can't find anyone on the inside who'll sabotage evidence (For a comparative small-potatoes example, see: Simpson, OJ and his HOF ring, and then just magnify the scope).

 

Then again, Paulson and Bernanke are currently running a bigger con than Madoff ever dreamed of operating.

 

The uber-rich aren't stupid. They know that it's going to be quite a while before they see the kind of cooperation they get at the highest levels of US govt. Like rats deserting the ship and trying to stuff their cheeks with as many crumbs as they can before they hit the drink.

[buckeyemike]

Here's betting that Madoff has a "heart attack" at the precise best time from a legal standpoint where any remaining assets will be a bear to find or collect. Then, he spends the rest of his days enjoying sunshine and margaritas with Ken Lay in a non-extraditing country.

 

Does hell extradite?

Tell me there's not a witness protection-style program for wealthy cons who buy in.

 

I can't tell you that. It's classified.

 

Who knows? You could be right. But will Obama expose all of our governments lies and faults? Or do things stay largely the same? As I said six weeks ago, be prepared to be immensely disappointed.

 

I believe Ken Lay is dead, however. The Reaper got him, as he will get all of us. None of us live forever, although some of the upper echelon like to think they do. You think Elvis is still alive? He would be 74 next month, and with his lifestyle, even if he faked his own death, I think the King would be dead by now anyway.

 

About the only reason the upper-echelon cons get busted and/or face real punishment for white-collar crime is A) if they don't have enough $ to grease enough wheels or B) if they go into it intending to keep it all (or most) for themselves. Occasionally, they run into an honest-broker prosecutor who's not ordered from higher up to drop a case or they can't find anyone on the inside who'll sabotage evidence (For a comparative small-potatoes example, see: Simpson, OJ and his HOF ring, and then just magnify the scope).

 

Interesting theory. But how does that explain Martha Stewart?

 

And as far as OJ goes, in retrospect, it was just a matter of time before he did something that brought him real jail time.

 

 

Then again, Paulson and Bernanke are currently running a bigger con than Madoff ever dreamed of operating.

 

The uber-rich aren't stupid. They know that it's going to be quite a while before they see the kind of cooperation they get at the highest levels of US govt. Like rats deserting the ship and trying to stuff their cheeks with as many crumbs as they can before they hit the drink.

 

Kind of like the Clintons grabbing all the silverware and linens before leaving the White House.

[SD Jarhead]

I don't believe all the conspiracy theory stuff about Lay, but this Madoff dude needs the $.50 solution- a round to the temple. Or, why not go back to the days when we tarred and feathered people and left them in the stocks?

 

The disgusting thing to me is that this guy is out on the street while someone who steals $50 often ends up sitting in the joint until their trial. Our justice system is really screwed up WRT white collar crime.

 

I also have very little sympathy for the wealthy who lost on this guy. Why should the Gov't bail them out when we've got regular people becoming homeless every day because of the greed of Wall St. money managers? When is Uncle Sugar going to help them? So maybe they have to live like us 'common folk'...too bad. I guess it sucks to be them.

 

What a world we live in...

[Steely Dan]

I don't believe all the conspiracy theory stuff about Lay, but this Madoff dude needs the $.50 solution- a round to the temple. Or, why not go back to the days when we tarred and feathered people and left them in the stocks?

 

The disgusting thing to me is that this guy is out on the street while someone who steals $50 often ends up sitting in the joint until their trial. Our justice system is really screwed up WRT white collar crime.

 

I also have very little sympathy for the wealthy who lost on this guy. Why should the Gov't bail them out when we've got regular people becoming homeless every day because of the greed of Wall St. money managers? When is Uncle Sugar going to help them? So maybe they have to live like us 'common folk'...too bad. I guess it sucks to be them.

 

What a world we live in...

 

Ok, who's logging in under SD's account?

[SD Jarhead]

Ok, who's logging in under SD's account?

 

WTF does that mean? Wrong is wrong. You clearly have the wrong impression about me. People who steal >$50 billion should be summarily executed in my world.

 

I do have compassion for those who are hurting, but also believe in calling a spade a spade. As for the uber-wealthy who are crying about their losses...too bad. I don't begrudge them because their wealthy, but I absolutely hate their sense of entitlement, just as i do from those who do nothing for themselves and want Uncle Sugar to support them.

 

That's the nice thing about principles.

[bills_fan]

I don't believe all the conspiracy theory stuff about Lay, but this Madoff dude needs the $.50 solution- a round to the temple. Or, why not go back to the days when we tarred and feathered people and left them in the stocks?

 

The disgusting thing to me is that this guy is out on the street while someone who steals $50 often ends up sitting in the joint until their trial. Our justice system is really screwed up WRT white collar crime.

 

I also have very little sympathy for the wealthy who lost on this guy. Why should the Gov't bail them out when we've got regular people becoming homeless every day because of the greed of Wall St. money managers? When is Uncle Sugar going to help them? So maybe they have to live like us 'common folk'...too bad. I guess it sucks to be them.

 

What a world we live in...

 

 

You mean like these folks....

 

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12162008/news/...hing_144414.htm

 

How about the charities he defrauded, theya re some of the biggest victims.

 

SAR Academy, a Jewish day school in The Bronx, is believed to have lost up to $4 million in endowment money placed with the firm.

 

The Chais Family Foundation, which gave more than $12 million annually to Jewish causes in Israel and Europe, has already shuttered its doors because of its losses.

 

Two Manhattan-based civil-liberties groups - the JEHT Foundation and The Rockit Fund - said they were set to close in January because of the fraud.

 

C'mon you're better than this jealousy-fueled rant. This was a crime of epic proportions and everyone hurting from it deserves some sympathy.

[Steely Dan]

WTF does that mean? Wrong is wrong. You clearly have the wrong impression about me. People who steal >$50 billion should be summarily executed in my world.

 

I do have compassion for those who are hurting, but also believe in calling a spade a spade. As for the uber-wealthy who are crying about their losses...too bad. I don't begrudge them because their wealthy, but I absolutely hate their sense of entitlement, just as i do from those who do nothing for themselves and want Uncle Sugar to support them.

 

That's the nice thing about principles.

 

Ok, gotcha.

[GG]

WTF does that mean? Wrong is wrong. You clearly have the wrong impression about me. People who steal >$50 billion should be summarily executed in my world.

 

I do have compassion for those who are hurting, but also believe in calling a spade a spade. As for the uber-wealthy who are crying about their losses...too bad. I don't begrudge them because their wealthy, but I absolutely hate their sense of entitlement, just as i do from those who do nothing for themselves and want Uncle Sugar to support them.

 

That's the nice thing about principles.

 

People who lost their entire life savings should not cry about their losses in the scam? Show me where the uber wealthy are asking for a government bailout for their losses.

 

This is a pretty clear cut scam where investors lost everything. It could get even worse for some, as they may be asked to return money that they withdrew from Madoff funds before the fraud discovery.

[KD in CA]

WTF? If convicted he'll be sent to a prison that houses the non-violent felons.

Gee, imagine that, a non-violent felon being sent to a prison that houses non-violent felons.

 

As for the uber-wealthy who are crying about their losses...too bad. I don't begrudge them because their wealthy, but I absolutely hate their sense of entitlement, just as i do from those who do nothing for themselves and want Uncle Sugar to support them.

Wow. Really? So when some Enron secretary gets her life savings wiped out it's a tragedy, but when a guy who worked to build a $5M net egg gets wiped out it's "!@#$ him"?? These people were all victims, regardless of how much they lost.

 

That's the nice thing about principles.

What, not having any? Obviously you do in fact have a major jealousy issue with people who are wealthy if this is your position.

 

Why should the Gov't bail them out when we've got regular people becoming homeless every day because of the greed of Wall St. money managers?

Who said anything about Madoff's victims being "bailed out"? Where did you get that from?

 

You think Elvis is still alive? He would be 74 next month, and with his lifestyle, even if he faked his own death, I think the King would be dead by now anyway.

He's hanging out on a beach with JFK and Marilyn.

 

How about the charities he defrauded, theya re some of the biggest victims.

It's a long list; very sad considering how much charities are already hurting from the recession.

[bills_fan]

People who lost their entire life savings should not cry about their losses in the scam? Show me where the uber wealthy are asking for a government bailout for their losses.

 

This is a pretty clear cut scam where investors lost everything. It could get even worse for some, as they may be asked to return money that they withdrew from Madoff funds before the fraud discovery.

 

 

I read that and its based upon the theory of fraudulent conveyance. My question is if you withdrew funds and paid taxes on the moeny, would the taxes not also be a fraudulent conveyance? And, if so, recoverable in bankruptcy?

[KD in CA]

I read that and its based upon the theory of fraudulent conveyance. My question is if you withdrew funds and paid taxes on the moeny, would the taxes not also be a fraudulent conveyance? And, if so, recoverable in bankruptcy?

 

I think that is pretty common in bankruptcies. And I would certainly think there is a provision in the tax law to recoup from the IRS any taxes paid by the individual on such returned conveyances.

[GG]

I read that and its based upon the theory of fraudulent conveyance. My question is if you withdrew funds and paid taxes on the moeny, would the taxes not also be a fraudulent conveyance? And, if so, recoverable in bankruptcy?

 

Saw that too. I think there's statutory time period to remand cash from fraudulent conveyance, plus intent and relationship of the parties is critical in that decision. As for taxes, if investors are ruled not to be entitled to SIPC insurance due to fraud, then you could argue that the gains that they claimed on past returns weren't gains, and you're due a refund.

 

This is going to be one hell of a bankruptcy.

[Endzone Animal]

His own sons called the police on him and helped turn him in. You know you're a lowlife piece of sh-t when your own sons want you in jail.

[Boomer860]

His own sons called the police on him and helped turn him in. You know you're a lowlife piece of sh-t when your own sons want you in jail.

Either that or he is protecting his sons.

[Endzone Animal]

Either that or he is protecting his sons.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

WTF does that mean? Wrong is wrong. You clearly have the wrong impression about me. People who steal >$50 billion should be summarily executed in my world.

 

I do have compassion for those who are hurting, but also believe in calling a spade a spade. As for the uber-wealthy who are crying about their losses...too bad. I don't begrudge them because their wealthy, but I absolutely hate their sense of entitlement, just as i do from those who do nothing for themselves and want Uncle Sugar to support them.

 

That's the nice thing about principles.

That is why I like you, don't always agree, but you do stick to your principals and they are not bad. P.S. Heading out your way for x-mas. Going to enjoy seeing some sun after dealing with a month+ of NYC grey.

[Adam]

I don't believe all the conspiracy theory stuff about Lay, but this Madoff dude needs the $.50 solution- a round to the temple. Or, why not go back to the days when we tarred and feathered people and left them in the stocks?

 

The disgusting thing to me is that this guy is out on the street while someone who steals $50 often ends up sitting in the joint until their trial. Our justice system is really screwed up WRT white collar crime.

 

I also have very little sympathy for the wealthy who lost on this guy. Why should the Gov't bail them out when we've got regular people becoming homeless every day because of the greed of Wall St. money managers? When is Uncle Sugar going to help them? So maybe they have to live like us 'common folk'...too bad. I guess it sucks to be them.

 

What a world we live in...

Our justice system is screwed up with white collar crimes? What area isn't it screwed up with it?

[Steely Dan]

Gee, imagine that, a non-violent felon being sent to a prison that houses non-violent felons.

 

When someone scams $50 billion it should be considered a violent felony. Why is a guy who sticks up a bank put into hard core prison and this guy shouldn't be?