Are the Bills really that bad?

[Dan]

AKA, the Jauron meeting with Ralph thread.

 

Seriously though, how do you explain these numbers:

 

Offensive Rankings:

• Total Offense (YPG) 2007- 30 / currently in 2008 - 23
  
• Passing (YPG) 2007- 30 / currently in 2008 - 20
  
• Rushing (YPG) 2007- 15 / currently in 2008 - 15
  

Defensive Rankings:

• Total Defense (YPG) 2007- 31 / currently in 2008 - 14
  
• Passing (YPG) 2007- 29 / currently in 2008 - 11
  
• Rushing (YPG) 2007- 25 / currently in 2008 - 19
  

 

Win/Lose Record:

We're currently as good as/better than:

• San Diego Chargers (6-8)
  
• Jacksonville Jaguars (5-9)
  
• Cleveland Browns (4-9)
  
• Green Bay Packers (5-9)
  
• Seattle Seahawks (3-11)
  

 

Granted, I agree we seem to be sucking. But, why does it appear we've improved so much, statistically speaking. So, are we really so bad that we need to blow it all up and start over? Or are we closer than it may appear?

[Alphadawg7]

AKA, the Jauron meeting with Ralph thread.

 

Seriously though, how do you explain these numbers:

 

Offensive Rankings:

• Total Offense (YPG) 2007- 30 / currently in 2008 - 23
  
• Passing (YPG) 2007- 30 / currently in 2008 - 20
  
• Rushing (YPG) 2007- 15 / currently in 2008 - 15
  

Defensive Rankings:

• Total Defense (YPG) 2007- 31 / currently in 2008 - 14
  
• Passing (YPG) 2007- 29 / currently in 2008 - 11
  
• Rushing (YPG) 2007- 25 / currently in 2008 - 19
  

 

Win/Lose Record:

We're currently as good as/better than:

• San Diego Chargers (6-8)
  
• Jacksonville Jaguars (5-9)
  
• Cleveland Browns (4-9)
  
• Green Bay Packers (5-9)
  
• Seattle Seahawks (3-11)
  

 

Granted, I agree we seem to be sucking. But, why does it appear we've improved so much, statistically speaking. So, are we really so bad that we need to blow it all up and start over? Or are we closer than it may appear?

 

We are closer than people want to see because we started so promising. Truth is, this team has no swagger or identity and that starts with the staff. The play calling, game management, etc have been inconsistent and generally pretty poor. Bring in a coach who is a proven winner, knows how to win games, and commands to respect of the players and we will be vastly improved.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

statistically they are not a train wreck, but they lose because of bad coaching and game day preperation.

[PromoTheRobot]

Go ahead and keep rationalizing. Teams on the verge of greatness all do retarded things to lose games for the last 3 years. Jeebuz.

 

PRT

[Adam]

We are that bad. Absolutely. And we are on pace to get worse. I look at our division and I see the NFC East of the early 1990's. The Jets, Patriots and Dolphins all have good coaching and have heavily concentrated their offseason moves on the line of scrimmage. Miami has the best offensive line in the division, while New England has the best defensive line. NY is better than us on both as well. Our moves constantly involve what happens behind the line of scrimmage- look at our first day picks over the past few years: Lynch, Whitner, Poz, Evans, Losman, Parrish...it goes on and on.

 

Forget the QB and forget the coach. We need Wilson to abdicate power as President of operations and hire a capable GM. I propose former Buffalo Bill standout Pete Metzelaars as our next GM. He has worked under Polian for a long time in INdy now and I am sure he is fully ready for what the job entails. Give him a long term deal with a no-fire clause, so he doesn't have to watch over his shoulder as he rebuilds the team- and let him be the one to decide Jauron's fate- not the fans. Its ok for fans to make knee jerk reactions, but when coaches or the front office listens to those knee jerk reactions, things fall apart fast

[BillsWatch]

The game is of inches.

 

They have a few players in key positions which are not adequate, depth questionable starting (QB, LB, OL primarily), key injuries, questionable scouting (since mid 1990s) and assistant coaches with not enough experience or vision being out coached. Bills need to spend more time conditioning including raising level expected of players.

[reddogblitz]

I don't think we're that bad. We're close. The team plays hard and aggressive for 58:00 only to allow Coach Jauron to make idiotic decisions to cost us the game at the end. What in the hell were we trying to do passing on 2nd 5 with 2:06 remaining with our 2nd string QB in? If we could run out the clock we win. ML had 137 yard rushing to that point. He was pounding the Jets. He had run for 17 yards in the last 4 plays. They couldn't stop him, so Dick steps in. This is even dumber than camping out on the 33 yard line against Cleveland.

[Dan]

We are that bad. Absolutely. And we are on pace to get worse. I look at our division and I see the NFC East of the early 1990's. The Jets, Patriots and Dolphins all have good coaching and have heavily concentrated their offseason moves on the line of scrimmage. Miami has the best offensive line in the division, while New England has the best defensive line. NY is better than us on both as well. Our moves constantly involve what happens behind the line of scrimmage- look at our first day picks over the past few years: Lynch, Whitner, Poz, Evans, Losman, Parrish...it goes on and on.

 

Forget the QB and forget the coach. We need Wilson to abdicate power as President of operations and hire a capable GM. I propose former Buffalo Bill standout Pete Metzelaars as our next GM. He has worked under Polian for a long time in INdy now and I am sure he is fully ready for what the job entails. Give him a long term deal with a no-fire clause, so he doesn't have to watch over his shoulder as he rebuilds the team- and let him be the one to decide Jauron's fate- not the fans. Its ok for fans to make knee jerk reactions, but when coaches or the front office listens to those knee jerk reactions, things fall apart fast

So you really think we need to get a new FO, new coaching staff, and then blow up the team as a result? Seems a little drastic to me. I'd suggest just a better coach that can get more ot of the existing players is all we need.

 

How are the Jets that much better than us? Without the brain fart by Jauron, we probably win today's game. What happens when Favre retires after this season? Where are they then?

[ecgetty]

Why can't the Bills even target Evans for throws? Double teams? Let me ask why that isn't the same case for, Steve Smith, Andre Johnson, Greg Jennings, Santana Moss, Brandon Marshall, Dwayne Bowe etc. All guys who see double teams and are a primary target in the passing game. Why is Evans the only high paid decoy on a team with few options at WR. Is he just not that good or is it all the QB?

 

I say it is the low quality, cheap (Ralph) coaches

[Adam]

So you really think we need to get a new FO, new coaching staff, and then blow up the team as a result? Seems a little drastic to me. I'd suggest just a better coach that can get more ot of the existing players is all we need.

 

How are the Jets that much better than us? Without the brain fart by Jauron, we probably win today's game. What happens when Favre retires after this season? Where are they then?

Does winning today make us the better team? The Jets are pushing 10 wins for the second time in 3 years. The Dolphins are finally reaping the benefits of patiently drafting talented offensive linemen every year. The Patriots are so good at the line of scrimmage they are winning with a bum at QB.

 

Our offensive line is scattershot- Jason Peters is average sized and athletic, Dockery is big and powerful, Fowler is undersized and lacks pop, Preston is big but not powerful, Butler is big and powerful, Walker is oversized and not explosive. There is no common thread there. What was this line put together to do? Some guys are suited for zone blocking some are suited for man blocking and Walker really is suited for falling forward.

 

We have undersized defensive ends with a slow first step in Denney and Kelsay, a good run plugger at DE in Stroud and a very good backup in Spencer Johnson. This covers the talent we have at LB and in the secondary.

 

Our talent will usually put us in the 7-9 to 9-7 range, consistently teasing playoffs but missing them if coaching is good enough. Unless the goal is to just be entertaining and hang around to the end of the season, we need to change. The foundation this team is built on is among the worst in the NFL.

 

Why can't the Bills even target Evans for throws? Double teams? Let me ask why that isn't the same case for, Steve Smith, Andre Johnson, Greg Jennings, Santana Moss, Brandon Marshall, Dwayne Bowe etc. All guys who see double teams and are a primary target in the passing game. Why is Evans the only high paid decoy on a team with few options at WR. Is he just not that good or is it all the QB?

 

I say it is the low quality, cheap (Ralph) coaches

Evans is not as good as any of the WR's mentioned

[Dan]

Does winning today make us the better team? The Jets are pushing 10 wins for the second time in 3 years. The Dolphins are finally reaping the benefits of patiently drafting talented offensive linemen every year. The Patriots are so good at the line of scrimmage they are winning with a bum at QB.

 

Our offensive line is scattershot- Jason Peters is average sized and athletic, Dockery is big and powerful, Fowler is undersized and lacks pop, Preston is big but not powerful, Butler is big and powerful, Walker is oversized and not explosive. There is no common thread there. What was this line put together to do? Some guys are suited for zone blocking some are suited for man blocking and Walker really is suited for falling forward.

 

We have undersized defensive ends with a slow first step in Denney and Kelsay, a good run plugger at DE in Stroud and a very good backup in Spencer Johnson. This covers the talent we have at LB and in the secondary.

 

Our talent will usually put us in the 7-9 to 9-7 range, consistently teasing playoffs but missing them if coaching is good enough. Unless the goal is to just be entertaining and hang around to the end of the season, we need to change. The foundation this team is built on is among the worst in the NFL.

 

 

Evans is not as good as any of the WR's mentioned

Had we beaten the Jets, they'd be 8-6 and we'd be 7-7. How's does that make them so much better than us? Where are they if Bret retires? I'd say the Dolphins are an aberation this year. Who saw them coming on like they have? Will they continue next year? That remains to be seen. The Pats* are... well the Pats*.

 

Have you seen the line play lately? They're not nearly as bad as you suggest. I contend that their biggest problem is coaching. Our team as a whole, especially the Oline, has no identity. However, when they line up and take on guys one on one, they do pretty well. It's all this stunting, trapping, pulling crap that they suck at. If the coaches could see that maybe we wouldn't be so bad.

 

The DEs aren't nearly as bad as anyone makes them out to be, although I agree we need to upgrade this position. As well, we need to upgrade Ellison.

 

Yeah, we're 7-9 type team. But, change a few stupid coaching decisions and we could easily be 9-5 right now.

 

I disagree. Evans is plenty good enough when given the chance.

[Adam]

Had we beaten the Jets, they'd be 8-6 and we'd be 7-7. How's does that make them so much better than us? Where are they if Bret retires? I'd say the Dolphins are an aberation this year. Who saw them coming on like they have? Will they continue next year? That remains to be seen. The Pats* are... well the Pats*.

 

Have you seen the line play lately? They're not nearly as bad as you suggest. I contend that their biggest problem is coaching. Our team as a whole, especially the Oline, has no identity. However, when they line up and take on guys one on one, they do pretty well. It's all this stunting, trapping, pulling crap that they suck at. If the coaches could see that maybe we wouldn't be so bad.

 

The DEs aren't nearly as bad as anyone makes them out to be, although I agree we need to upgrade this position. As well, we need to upgrade Ellison.

 

Yeah, we're 7-9 type team. But, change a few stupid coaching decisions and we could easily be 9-5 right now.

 

I disagree. Evans is plenty good enough when given the chance.

Although Evans has only had one really good year, I do think he is very good- just not elite.

 

What if we had beaten the Jets? But we didn't. The Jets will go out and draft another QB who will also play well behind that line and lead them to 10 win seasons, like Favre and Pennington have. The Dolphins are not an abberation- they had one of the better OL's last year and moved people to more natural positions after drafting Long. The Pats are built on dominating the line of scrimmage and they have toughened up after turning into a finesse team last season.

 

Our DE's would be better if we were stonger inside, but they still have a slow first step, which negates the concept of having undersized, quick ends. Neither is Schobel, who isn't a dominator by any means.

 

Ellison wasn't a starter until Crowell went down.

 

Coaching decisions....every coach makes bad decisions during games......Tomlin nearly blew last Sunday's game by not kicking a field goal.....good players cover up bad decisions, and we don't have nearly enough....particularly on the offensive and defensive lines

 

Another thing- so many people said during the offseason that Edwards is fully developed and won't regress or have growing pains- welcome to reality- it happens to all young QB's. Maybe Trent will grow out of it, maybe he won't. Only time will tell.