dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Why aren't you talking about Poz? You brought up helping Lynch with his helmet so I compared it to a situation where a Bills player did something overly aggressive. I guess its not deliberate when you hit someone and there helmet spins around and does a 180 on someones head then. I'm not talking about Poz because I really don't care - I'm talking about Wilson. I have no illusions that the Bills player are choirboys, but frankly it's irrelevant to the conversation at hand, which is about the play of Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I'm not talking about Poz because I really don't care - I'm talking about Wilson. I have no illusions that the Bills player are choirboys, but frankly it's irrelevant to the conversation at hand, which is about the play of Wilson. So you don't want to talk about Poz cause you don't want to consider him a dirty player? Or because its fine when buffalo does something but when it happens the other way, the player is dirty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Straw Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 It was certainly dirty. I don't think the initial hit was the problem, seemed like he led more with his chest, but the way he brought edwards down and ground his helmet into him was straight malicious. That, coupled with the ridiculous display of classiness in ripping off lynch's helmet for a knee to the head would warrant a hefty fine, IMO. The guy's a hitman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 (edited) I'm not talking about Poz - I'm talking about Wilson, who showed that he's pretty much a garden variety NFL thug who plays safety (a position with a lot of them - take a look at Jack Tatum's classic *They Call me Assassin*). Leonard Smith was one of those guys, so it's not like the Bills haven't had such players on their team. As for the hit itself, it's far less about head-to-head (or the lack thereof) than the deliberate ramming of Edward's shoulder into the ground as hard as possible. It all seems pretty freaking obvious to me. The NFL is a bottom line business, and knocking out the stud QB for the opposing team is gonna help your team win. You can bet the Cardinals were happy with the result. The AZ safety went in fast and stayed upright (to be in position to raise his arms if the QB launches a pass). That's the way its' done - you don't leave your feet and dive for the mid-section or legs. If that happens...entertain a case for intent to injure. The safety's body was upright, and his feet were off the ground as he struck TE. He didn't twist his torso to drive TE into the ground. He released his right arm as both were plummeting near the turf. What would you like that AZ player to have done? Cradle TE and come crashing down on both arms, separating one of his own shoulders or busting one of his elbows? All in what...a second? A half-second of elapsed time? Edited October 6, 2008 by stuckincincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Man, one loss and then there are all these whiny topics on the board...Are you serious? Why dont you go play and watch flag football if you think this hit was dirty. It was a good clean hit, 100% legal and the players momentum landing on TE. Trent hit his head on the ground, its football, get over it, its part of the game. He did nothing to intentionally hurt TE just hit him hard, as any of us would and was no worse than our hit on Warner that split his chin open. Between this thread, the why didnt we challenge the royal fumble thread, the JP is garbage threads, etc. I am officially annoyed by the absurd whining over topics that are not even relevant to our loss...to top it all off, its just ONE game...did you really think we were going 16-0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Man, one loss and then there are all these whiny topics on the board...Are you serious? Why dont you go play and watch flag football if you think this hit was dirty. It was a good clean hit, 100% legal and the players momentum landing on TE. Trent hit his head on the ground, its football, get over it, its part of the game. He did nothing to intentionally hurt TE just hit him hard, as any of us would and was no worse than our hit on Warner that split his chin open. Between this thread, the why didnt we challenge the royal fumble thread, the JP is garbage threads, etc. I am officially annoyed by the absurd whining over topics that are not even relevant to our loss...to top it all off, its just ONE game...did you really think we were going 16-0? I guess you thought Wilfork's hit on Losman last year was clean too?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in VA Beach Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 The hit looked legal to me. The follow through as the players hit the ground looked like the defender took some liberty to drive home the blow. It may be dirty, but its part of the game, and not against the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizell Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I dunno if the hit was dirty or not (don't think it was), but the jump-pass that trent edwards does needs to quit, especially when a defender is bearing down on him. That just invites the head to get driven into the ground... So, uhh, what does everyone think about trent 'jumping' while he's passing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So, uhh, what does everyone think about trent 'jumping' while he's passing? Thank you! Exactly, meant to mention that in my post above...dude leaped up and got nailed in mid air landing on his head...ti happens, its football...the defender did not give him the concussion, the ground did. It was a good hard hit, the kind of clean hard hit that is respected not penalized for being dirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Thank you! Exactly, meant to mention that in my post above...dude leaped up and got nailed in mid air landing on his head...ti happens, its football...the defender did not give him the concussion, the ground did. It was a good hard hit, the kind of clean hard hit that is respected not penalized for being dirty. So jamming your helmet into the QB's chin while tackling him, and continuing to drive your helmet into his chin even after your on the ground is considered a legal hit?! Really!!! I could understand if the safety nailed Edwards and knocked him to the ground, because Edwards just released the ball, but he purposely drove Edwards to the ground with the intent to injure. I saw the replay several times. If he didn't want to injure Edwards, he would have just nailed Edwards without driving him to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 This is tackle football, not the ballet. Wilson did his job. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So jamming your helmet into the QB's chin while tackling him, and continuing to drive your helmet into his chin even after your on the ground is considered a legal hit?! Really!!! I could understand if the safety nailed Edwards and knocked him to the ground, because Edwards just released the ball, but he purposely drove Edwards to the ground with the intent to injure. I saw the replay several times. If he didn't want to injure Edwards, he would have just nailed Edwards without driving him to the ground. Have you ever played football? You are taught to drive through EVERY one of your tackles, PERIOD! The hit didnt even look that bad in fast motion, let alone replay. He lept into a LEAPING Trent Edwards and Trents head hit the ground as he landed flat, which is pretty much unavoidable when landing flat. A big hit doesnt make it dirty, and that hit was within 100% of all rule guidelines and there will not even be any discussion of a fine or suspension other than by fans of this board. And to be honest, I think 80% of the Qb's hit there get up with no problem and play the next play, except Trent is frail, always has been and was one of his knocks coming out of college. He is going to be a great QB in my opinnion, but his durability is yet to be shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreakPop Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So jamming your helmet into the QB's chin while tackling him, and continuing to drive your helmet into his chin even after your on the ground is considered a legal hit?! Really!!! I could understand if the safety nailed Edwards and knocked him to the ground, because Edwards just released the ball, but he purposely drove Edwards to the ground with the intent to injure. I saw the replay several times. If he didn't want to injure Edwards, he would have just nailed Edwards without driving him to the ground. Watch the replays, it's a clean hit. His helmet hit Trent in the armpit. Helmet slid up to his chin facemask area as he finished the tackle. You finish checks in hockey, why can't you finish the tackle in football. It's really a non issue if you know how the game is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in VA Beach Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 And to be honest, I think 80% of the Qb's hit there get up with no problem and play the next play, except Trent is frail, always has been and was one of his knocks coming out of college. He is going to be a great QB in my opinnion, but his durability is yet to be shown. I disagree. A concussion has nothing to do with being injury prone. Trent has weathered some tough shots this year and has prooven to be fairly elusive and quick with his decisions in the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Have you ever played football? You are taught to drive through EVERY one of your tackles, PERIOD! The hit didnt even look that bad in fast motion, let alone replay. He lept into a LEAPING Trent Edwards and Trents head hit the ground as he landed flat, which is pretty much unavoidable when landing flat. A big hit doesnt make it dirty, and that hit was within 100% of all rule guidelines and there will not even be any discussion of a fine or suspension other than by fans of this board. And to be honest, I think 80% of the Qb's hit there get up with no problem and play the next play, except Trent is frail, always has been and was one of his knocks coming out of college. He is going to be a great QB in my opinnion, but his durability is yet to be shown. I watched it several times and the top of his helmet was in his chin as he was going through his tackle, and even while they were on the ground. It was a dirty hit. Also, the same guy ripped off Lynch's helmet, I take it that was clean in your opinion too?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So jamming your helmet into the QB's chin while tackling him, and continuing to drive your helmet into his chin even after your on the ground is considered a legal hit?! Really!!! I could understand if the safety nailed Edwards and knocked him to the ground, because Edwards just released the ball, but he purposely drove Edwards to the ground with the intent to injure. I saw the replay several times. If he didn't want to injure Edwards, he would have just nailed Edwards without driving him to the ground. I give up. The Bills should go petition the league office for a uniform change to day-glo safety orange sun dresses, and also seat belts on the benches and "Baby On Board" helmet logos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I give up. The Bills should go petition the league office for a uniform change to day-glo safety orange sun dresses, and also seat belts on the benches and "Baby On Board" helmet logos... hahahaha...best post yet...that was awesome!...LMAO... the fact this thread still has life is amusing me...I love how someone just mentioned another hit on lynch as a reference to making this one dirty when they have ZERO similarities and Lynch ripped his own helmet off...this is too much...if a fan from another team saw all these cry baby posts today they would say the fans are as soft as our O-line played yesterday...hahaha next topic please...I am still LMAO off though on your "baby on board" helmet logos...classic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I watched it several times and the top of his helmet was in his chin as he was going through his tackle, and even while they were on the ground. It was a dirty hit. Also, the same guy ripped off Lynch's helmet, I take it that was clean in your opinion too?! So, as I said to Dave, would you consider Poz a dirty player when he spun the Jax RB's helmet around on that one hit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Man, one loss and then there are all these whiny topics on the board...Are you serious? Why dont you go play and watch flag football if you think this hit was dirty. It was a good clean hit, 100% legal and the players momentum landing on TE. Trent hit his head on the ground, its football, get over it, its part of the game. He did nothing to intentionally hurt TE just hit him hard, as any of us would and was no worse than our hit on Warner that split his chin open. Between this thread, the why didnt we challenge the royal fumble thread, the JP is garbage threads, etc. I am officially annoyed by the absurd whining over topics that are not even relevant to our loss...to top it all off, its just ONE game...did you really think we were going 16-0? My point all along is that it was clean, technically. I've watched it a bunch of times, and Wilson proved the patently, blatently obvious -- that he's a typical NFL assassin safety who will gladly stick the metaphorical shiv into an opposing QB (or RB - take your pick) when presented with the opportunity. That's standard issue in the NFL, which is a league filled with thugs. The Bills have their share, I'm sure. So there's no use crying about it -- it's the nature of the game. I'm just calling a spade a spade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 So, as I said to Dave, would you consider Poz a dirty player when he spun the Jax RB's helmet around on that one hit? It was a dirty play, since you insist on my answering. But I don't think he's a dirty player all around. I watch very little of Wilson, who does have a reputation as a guy who brings the wood. But in one game, he almost took out two people. In comparison to Poz, it's at least arguable that Poz grabbed hold of the facemask by mistake and simply held on. It's not arguable that Wilson deliberately wrenched the helmet off of Lynch. This is not to say that players like Wilson aren't good players. Rodney Harrison is the model (an updated Tatum), in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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