The Dean Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 According to this article, the Bills put Crowell on IR out of anger and spite, and knew his recovery would take 5 weeks, at the most: http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-3-122...aunt-Bills.html I was going to start a thread about this very topic last week, and decided to let it go. Besides, I figured it was likely discussed during my absence. But, I will take Tim's article as an opportunity to bring it up now. I, too wondered why Crowell was put on IR, for arthroscopic surgery. Typically the down time is about 4-6 weeks. Surely, I figured, they would wait for Angelo to heal and join the team, mid-season. I knew they were probably upset that he made the decision to have the surgery days before the start of the season, but would that be enough to make a move that hurts the team, down the road? Then I read (or heard) some remarks from Jauron which claimed, when he inquired as to how long Crowell's recovery would take, he was told something to the effect of "We don't know". I figured that "we don't know" is a hell of a lot different than "probably 4-6 weeks", and DJ figured he couldn't let that spot sit unfilled for an undisclosed amount of time. I'm not suggesting that some anger didn't play a role, but certainly he wouldn't bite off his nose to spite his face", would he? Tim's article is causing me to wonder, again: what exactly went on, here? I think this situation has a lot of layers and issues surrounding it (particularly in light of the Merriman situation). I'm sure there will be the usual "DJ's an idiot" and "Crowell screwed the team, he makes too much $$ and should just play" comments from the resident trolls and tough-guys, but that's not really what I am looking for. I'd love to know: 1. What do we really KNOW. Anyone have any real info on how this went down? When did Crowell first get injured (or realize he was injured)? 2. In the absence of real knowledge (from all sides of the issue) what do we think happened here? Why did Crowell wait until the last minute to take action? Were the team doctors discouraging him from surgery? (That could go under #1, too if anyone has real info.) 3. In the final analysis, did DJ really simply put Crowell on IR because he was pissed off? Given the Bills' team oriented management system, I would think that a stupid rash decision would be tempered with reasonable discussion, before taking an action like this. Was this Ralph's call? Tim has a quote in his article that makes me suspect this was a RW edict. That make more sense to me than believing DJ made this decision out of anger and spite. So, that's it. WTF really went on here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Thanks for the link. Man, you think it was Ralph's or Dicks decision? If it was Ralph, is this just going to be another on his list of owner mistakes, you know right up there with benching the Flutes and firing Polian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I attended a couple of practices during the summer. Crowell missed one at the end of July, but was participating later on at full speed. It's noteworthy that Crowell had what Graham termed "the works" version of surgery when he went to see Dr. Andrews. Sounded as though he elected this because he had the time to heal. Had he not been on IR, he could have elected to have a scaled down version of surgery. I'm not a MD, so I can't elaborate further. It's also important to view this event during the time it did. Peters still hadn't reported, and I'm sure the mood wasn't good in the front office. The personnel folks probably viewed surgery as a move to undermine them, and responded by sending a message that this behavior would not be tolerated. I also have to wonder if this was done by the player's agent to test a new GM/COO in Brandon. It's all speculation, but something's amiss with this situation. Crowell also was entering the final year of his contract, and apparently Buffalo hadn't contacted him about an extension. Either way, he misses the season, had the surgery, and will hit UFA without a 2008 body of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huuuge Bills Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 AFAIK, Crowell and the team knew about the injury during the preseason. He said he was willing to play through the pain. However, he decided to have the surgery (news broke on the thursday before the Seahawks game). The thought is that he waited untill after the Tuesday before before the Seahawks game to have the surgery. Because after that day, his contract for this season became gauranteed. If he would of had the surgery in the preseaon, he would have only missed 1-2 games. Instead he waited to make sure he would get payed. The Bills pretty much sent him a big F.U. for being greedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Shrug. Lost with him, win without him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 One thing I see: The Bills have put plenty of players on IR over the years. I have *never* seen them put a player on IR as fast as they did Crowell. They always wait a few days and think it over. That right there is the most suspect thing of all to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Shrug. Lost with him, win without him... LOL wut? Have we ever had a winning season with Ellison, Poz, Whitner, Williams, Royal, Walker, Marshawn, blah blah blah on the team? Lets kick all of those guys off the team. We can't win with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 IF Crowell did what he did just to get paid, then I can see Ralph saying F.U. Crowell. But, that's a big "IF." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 IF Crowell did what he did just to get paid, then I can see Ralph saying F.U. Crowell. But, that's a big "IF." Same here. That's new "info" to me. Still, as long as he is getting paid, might as well get some value from him, IF you are certain he will be back in 4-6 weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bflobarry Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I believe what happened was this (just my opinion): Crowell was entering the last year of his contract. Like every vet, particularly "important" ones, he wanted an extension. His agent no doubt had been wanting to finalize an extension BEFORE the season, for lots of reasons, including potential injury, etc...The Bills did not have as high an opinion of Crowell as he and his agent did, and were not going to bring him back next year. As the season was on the brink, Crowell, who did need some minor surgery, pulls a "work stoppage" on the Bills to register his displeasure w/ the team for not extending him. He figures he'll miss a few weeks, and the Bills will realize how badly they need him. But this totally pisses of RW, who says "oh yeah? Well F.U. too, and in your contract year no less". It is obvious by Ralph's recent "..quit on me" comment that this was RW's call, not DJ's. So in summary, Crow said FU, and the Bills said "I'll see that FU, and I'll raise you!".... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Caveman Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 The thought is that he waited untill after the Tuesday before before the Seahawks game to have the surgery. Because after that day, his contract for this season became gauranteed. The Bills pretty much sent him a big F.U. for being greedy. That's interesting, I hadn't heard that. But do you think there was any chance of them cutting him if he did have the surgery, say, at the start of camp? And risk having him picked up by some other team (especially in the division)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 When I told Tim about this thread, I mentioned that it sounded all too much like the way Tom Donahoe got rid of Steve Christie. I'll be interested to see if he agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 That's interesting, I hadn't heard that. But do you think there was any chance of them cutting him if he did have the surgery, say, at the start of camp? And risk having him picked up by some other team (especially in the division)? Assuming this is true, for just a second, if they were to put him on IR during preseason, before the contract was guaranteed, he would still get paid, just not as much, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 When I told Tim about this thread, I mentioned that it sounded all too much like the way Tom Donahoe got rid of Steve Christie. I'll be interested to see if he agrees. Can you bring us up to speed on what happened with Christie. I forgot, to tell you the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Assuming this is true, for just a second, if they were to put him on IR during preseason, before the contract was guaranteed, he would still get paid, just not as much, right? I believe he still gets his salary as long as he stays on IR, but if the Bills do a waived/injured move, they stop paying him at that point (instead of the entire salary being guaranteed). I'm working on a gamer right now, so I don't have the time to dig through the crappy new NFLPA Web site. But if anyone else out there does, here's the link to the complete CBA: http://www.nflplayers.com/user/template.as...=358&type=c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_wag Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I believe he still gets his salary as long as he stays on IR, but if the Bills do a waived/injured move, they stop paying him at that point (instead of the entire salary being guaranteed). I'm working on a gamer right now, so I don't have the time to dig through the crappy new NFLPA Web site. But if anyone else out there does, here's the link to the complete CBA:http://www.nflplayers.com/user/template.as...=358&type=c i believe the window has closed for them to reach an injury settlement with him - the rule is the agreement must be reached within 4 (or maybe 5) days of the player going on IR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Nails Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Either way we win tomorrow and win next week and win against the cards. 5-0 at the break. I loved him too, he made a cash move and now Crow's gone. Let's move on and LETS GO BUFFALO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Can you bring us up to speed on what happened with Christie. I forgot, to tell you the truth. He pulled up lame (groin pull, maybe?) right at the end of the preseason. Think I remember some contract negotiations going going south at roughly the same time. I'd have to dig into the transactions to make sure, but I think they put Christie on IR the same day they released Henry Jones, then cut him a month or so later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 21, 2008 Author Share Posted September 21, 2008 He pulled up lame (groin pull, maybe?) right at the end of the preseason. Think I remember some contract negotiations going going south at roughly the same time. I'd have to dig into the transactions to make sure, but I think they put Christie on IR the same day they released Henry Jones, then cut him a month or so later. Gotcha. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max997 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 if Crowells knee was bothering him since last season why didnt he have the surgery during the offseason? because he knew if he did there was no way the Bills would give him the extension he was trying to get...he didnt get his extension so he decided at the last minute to have surgery in hopes of coming back for a free agency run rather then play on it and risk not finishing the season there was also no guarantee Crowell wouldnt have missed more time then the assumed time it takes to recover I am usually the first to be critical of the Bills front office but I dont have a problem with what they did, they ended his Bills career by putting him on IR because they couldnt cut him....if Crowell was so intent on playing this year he would have had the surgery he was going to have in order to come back and play and work out an injury settlement with the team so he could sign elsewhere, the fact that he didnt go that route says it all to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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