I'm tired of all this WM hype after just one game

[freak]

I can't believe some of you fans on this board; how you guys can jump on and off the ship so fast. I mean for the Bills sake I hope WM does well. But for god sakes he had one good game. I mean I kept note for at one point he had 23 for 75 yards, nothing special. But then he finished with 111 on 26 as he had a 31-yard run. While he ran hard, kept his feet moving and gain all those yards after contact, if you take away that run he only averaged 3.2 YPC. If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

My biggest irk is that some seem to think WM is so much faster or a break away threat than TH. He hasn't showed me any explosiveness whatsoever this year. The 31 yard run he had was more impressive with the stiff arm he showed than his display of speed. He NEVER explodes into a hole or out off a cut making defenses respect his speed. TH hits the hole way faster and harder than WM. Now WM can get by with his patient running style read and react defenses but aggressive, penetrating defenses will stop him cold if he continues to hesitate at the LOS. With that being said WM is strong runner, hard to bring down, moves the pile much better than I expected; I thought he'd be more of a slasher type. He also is a much better blocker than TH. Next year he might be all that is advertised. But for anybody to think that at this point and moment that WM is head and shoulders, hands down better runner than TH after one game is ludicrous for they must have amnesia to the way TH has played the past 3 seasons.

 

It is a shame that the fans on this board can turn on Bills players so quick after one bad game or stretch. Think about, especially this year: Nate Clemens, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry London Fletcher, and Sam Adams has played consistently above average here for the past few years but once they have one bad play or game the fans here act like they are expendable and over rated. Some fans need to wake up a realized that one good play or game doesn't make a player a superstar or worthy of replacing a starter just as a bad play or game should send a major contributor to the bench. CONSISTENCY is the key...

[drnykterstein]

i've been on the willis band wagon since week two, when i realized henry cant do the job.

 

we used a number 1 draft pick on the guy, he better be as good as we are all saying he is.

 

It is a shame that the fans on this board can turn on Bills players so quick after one bad game or stretch. Think about, especially this year: Nate Clemens, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry London Fletcher, and Sam Adams has played consistently above average here for the past few years but once they have one bad play or game the fans here act like they are expendable and over rated. Some fans need to wake up a realized that one good play or game doesn't make a player a superstar or worthy of replacing a starter just as a bad play or game should send a major contributor to the bench. CONSISTENCY is the key...

i agree with that fully, (which is why i still support bledsoe even). henry however does not fall under the category of consistant.

[BuffOrange]

Consistency is the key - but unfortunately Travis hasn't been consistently good this year. His best game was one in which he fell on 3rd&1, then did not know the play coming out of a T.O.

 

Sorry, but that 31 yard run counts, you can't just take it away - especially when his counterpart really isn't capable of anything longer than 15 yards.

[Guest Guest]

I dont care about the yards (well not too much)

 

I care about the blitz pickup, catching ability, grinding out yards where none existed, oh yeah....and the ability to take the team on his back in the 4th quarter and actually HELP WIN THE FRICKEN GAME

[Spiderweb]

Maybe Willis isn't the second coming yet, but for his first start, he played very well, and when the chips were on the line, he stepped it up in the 4th quarter, and that's where you want your RB to shine most of all. Travis has had some very good rushing days, but last Sunday's performance by Willis was as complete of a game by a Bills RB since we last saw Thermal. I'm very encouraged by what I've seen of Willis to date and I wasn't very happy when he was drafted. This guy has a chance of being something special.

[VABills]

I dont care about the yards (well not too much)

 

I care about the blitz pickup, catching ability, grinding out yards where none existed, oh yeah....and the ability to take the team on his back in the 4th quarter and actually HELP WIN THE FRICKEN GAME

80799[/snapback]

Good point go back to the previous 2 years. Travis doesn't excel in the fourth quarter.

 

In 2002 his breakdown is:

 

1st 429

2nd 230

3rd 485

4th 294

 

 

In 2003:

 

1st 302

2nd 305

3rd 415

4th 329

 

 

He has never been a closer.

[freak]

i've been on the willis band wagon since week two, when i realized henry cant do the job.

 

we used a number 1 draft pick on the guy, he better be as good as we are all saying he is.

80794[/snapback]

 

So what if he was a number 1 draft pick? Most would agree that was a wasted pick, even if WM turns out to be the next OJ. All that will mean is that TD got lucky with his gamble. If he had drafted for other needs the Bills have we probably wouldn't be 1-4. Did you see the burst Joe Burns showed when he spelled WM in the Miami game or the game Sammy Morris had, does that make them special? If we had drafted for a need that year and just had one of these backs come of the bench we wouldn't have a need of 2 quality starting backs.

 

With that being said, I wish WM all the best as I am a Bills fan. And how can you be stupid enough to make acomment that TH can't get the job done? BS; you'd have to be a fool to think he is hands down better than Henry; especially after posting identical numbersthroughout the year. As a matter of fact, up until the play where he slipped, TH game against NE was more impressive than WM game against the Dolphins as he consistently gained yardage against them keeping the chains moving..

[jad1]

In the NFL you can't spend an entire month underperforming if your backup is a 1st round draft choice.

 

Henry could have nailed this thing down, but he's made too many mistakes and hasn't delivered in key situations. Leaving two games with injuries hasn't helped his cause.

 

Mularkey's offense uses the running game to wear down defenses. Thanks to McGahee's production in the 4th quarter, the Bills held the ball for 13 minutes. That's why McGahee's performanace was so impressive.

 

I hope Henry comes back healthy and ready to contribute, because Mularkey would have two backs with which he can beat up the defense.

 

But Henry does the team no good if he continues to make drive-ending mistakes. If people are jumping off of Henry's ship, they have good reason to.

 

Bottom line, Henry's game needs to improve.

[CosmicBills]

if you take away that run he only averaged 3.2 YPC. If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

80780[/snapback]

 

I will never, ever understand that argument. But it happens alot. "well, if you took away XYZ, then he wouldn't have had such a good day statistically".

 

WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THAT AWAY?!

 

When has Travis busted a 31 yarder? The fact is Travis is a good back. But face it, how many career runs of over 30 has he had? From my memory (very innacurate source by the way) he's had 2 or 3 in 4 years. When Henry busts one for 12 yards everyone goes nuts because that is a long run for him. He doesn't have the ability to (to use your word) consistently break long runs like Willis does.

 

I think Travis is a good back. But I think Willis will be a better one. But I am not going to choose one over the other right now because they are both on our team. But at the moment Willis gives us a better chance at winning than Travis does. MM just has to use them both from now on.

[CosmicBills]

So what if he was a number 1 draft pick? Most would agree that was a wasted pick, even if WM turns out to be the next OJ. All that will mean is that TD got lucky with his gamble.

80809[/snapback]

 

Sorry, I don't like to do this very often, but this just shows your true colors. You aren't being objective. You just don't like TD and are looking for ways to bash him.

 

If Willis turns out to be the next OJ (minus the double murder) no sane person would ever say that was a wasted pick. EVER.

 

Travis is a good back. But if Willis is better, he should play. And I judge the better back to be the one that gives us the best chance to win on Sunday.

[freak]

Consistency is the key - but unfortunately Travis hasn't been consistently good this year.  His best game was one in which he fell on 3rd&1, then did not know the play coming out of a T.O.

 

Sorry, but that 31 yard run counts, you can't just take it away - especially when his counterpart really isn't capable of anything longer than 15 yards.

80795[/snapback]

 

This year I'll admit Henry has struggled but also he has faced some good run defenses in the Jags & Raiders and he ran pretty good against NE (I was alittle disappointed about the Jets game however) and I would have expected the same if he had played against Miami for their run defense was suspect which is why I think WM game has been a little overated, especially being that he only average about 3.2 YPC outside the 31 yard run. To make Henry a scapegoat is ludacrous, especially with WM having similar averages in the same games running behind the same line. When the blocking picks up and the competition level drops Henry will once again excel but I mean running aginst the teams mentioned above and now the Ravens is no picnic. Some act like WM is Bo Jackson and TH is Marcus Allen, with one RB running for 5 YPC and the other at 3.8 YPC!

[jad1]

So what if he was a number 1 draft pick? Most would agree that was a wasted pick, even if WM turns out to be the next OJ. All that will mean is that TD got lucky with his gamble. If he had drafted for other needs the Bills have we probably wouldn't be 1-4. Did you see the burst Joe Burns showed when he spelled WM in the Miami game or the game Sammy Morris had, does that make them special?  If we had drafted for a need that year and just had one of these backs come of the bench we wouldn't have a need of 2 quality starting backs.

 

With that being said, I wish WM all the best as I am a Bills fan. And how can you be stupid enough to make acomment that TH can't get the job done? BS; you'd have to be a fool to think he is hands down better than Henry; especially after posting identical numbersthroughout the year. As a matter of fact, up until the play where he slipped, TH game against NE was more impressive than WM game against the Dolphins as he consistently gained yardage against them keeping the chains moving..

80809[/snapback]

 

 

You really can't be serious here. Joe Burns proved last season that he couldn't be a starting RB when Henry was injured.

 

And you talk about Sammy Morris being a quality back, well he was passed over when TD drafted Henry. So is Henry a bad draft pick?

 

The Bills are 1-4 because Henry, among others, HASN'T gotten the job done.

 

--For a guy with 23 TDs over the last 2 years, his goal line performance has been poor.

 

--For a 4 year year veteren, it's unforgivable that he run the wrong route on a passing play, but he has also run the wrong way on a running play.

 

--For a guy that has gained 1300 each of the last season, it's disappointing that he couldn't manage to gain over 100 the first quarter of this season.

 

--And as a power runner, you expect him to move the sticks on short yardage situations, not fall down.

 

I hope the guy turns his game around, but until he does, the Bills have to play the guy who's contributed more this season. Right now, that's McGahee.

[Paco]

If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

Yes, yes, yes, and if Norwood didn't miss his field goal we may have won four straight Super Bowls. The truth of the matter is he DID miss the field goal, Travis DID slip and fall down, Travis CAN'T block blitzing linebackers worth a crap, we DID lose to the Patriots and we ARE 1-4. How many running backs do you know have over 100 yards running without having a least one good, long run? And given that last week was Willis' FIRST NFL GAME, and ran with patience, power AND THE ABILITY to knock off a 30-yard run against a good defense, it seems you just want to rile people up with you knack for woulda, coulda, shouldas.

 

All that will mean is that TD got lucky with his gamble. If he had drafted for other needs the Bills have we probably wouldn't be 1-4.

 

By the time I got to this statement, it was suddenly clear that you're just trying to get people pissed off.

 

Sooo...if Willis becomes a great back, TD was LUCKY? Who would YOU have drafted with the first pick two years ago. Given our roster...given our salary cap situation...tell me, WHO WOULD YOU HAVE PICKED that would have helped us be better than 1-4 right now?

[freak]

Sorry, I don't like to do this very often, but this just shows your true colors. You aren't being objective. You just don't like TD and are looking for ways to bash him.

 

If Willis turns out to be the next OJ (minus the double murder) no sane person would ever say that was a wasted pick. EVER.

 

Travis is a good back. But if Willis is better, he should play. And I judge the better back to be the one that gives us the best chance to win on Sunday.

80827[/snapback]

 

Now I have nothing against most of the moves TD made for they were the most part well calculated moves that just haven't panned out yet; I'm not most on this board who give up on players after a few games. But the WM move on draft day I feel was bad for we were more than one player away and that player was not a RB. Now I am not dissing WM, I'm just responding to the statement that he should play for he was a first round pick.

 

My whole problem with WM is the overhyping of his performance against a suspect run D and the taking for granted the play Henry has showed us the past 3 seasons. Now hear me out, while WM ran hard and gain all these yards after contact, he wouldn't have had to encounter as much contact at the line if he had ran into the hole where the play were designed instead of tippy toeing at the LOS. That is why he averaged about 3.2 yards; if he can correct this and hit the hole hard when it is there then maybe he can be special WHEN HE IS BACK TO RUNNING FULL SPEED! Everyone seems to have gotten brainwashed into thinking he is so much faster and more explosive than TH and at this point and this is clearly not true as WM is yet to show the speed he had at Miami. I'll admit he is much more physical back than I expected and a better blocker and probably a better reciever than TH but right now he is too hesitant when he hits the LOS to be considered a better runner and better D will expose his flaw and then you guys will be crying to put TH back in after a few sub-performances, WRITE IT DOWN, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

[1billsfan]

I can't believe some of you fans on this board; how you guys can jump on and off the ship so fast. I mean for the Bills sake I hope WM does well. But for god sakes he had one good game. I mean I kept note for at one point he had 23 for 75 yards, nothing special. But then he finished with 111 on 26 as he had a 31-yard run. While he ran hard, kept his feet moving and gain all those yards after contact, if you take away that run he only averaged 3.2 YPC. If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

My biggest irk is that some seem to think WM is so much faster or a break away threat than TH. He hasn't showed me any explosiveness whatsoever this year. The 31 yard run he had was more impressive with the stiff arm he showed than his display of speed. He NEVER explodes into a hole or out off a cut making defenses respect his speed. TH hits the hole way faster and harder than WM. Now WM can get by with his patient running style read and react defenses but aggressive, penetrating defenses will stop him cold if he continues to hesitate at the LOS. With that being said WM is strong runner, hard to bring down, moves the pile much better than I expected; I thought he'd be more of a slasher type. He also is a much better blocker than TH. Next year he might be all that is advertised. But for anybody to think that at this point and moment that WM is head and shoulders, hands down better runner than TH after one game is ludicrous for they must have amnesia to the way TH has played the past 3 seasons.

 

It is a shame that the fans on this board can turn on Bills players so quick after one bad game or stretch. Think about, especially this year: Nate Clemens, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry London Fletcher, and Sam Adams has played consistently above average here for the past few years but once they have one bad play or game the fans here act like they are expendable and over rated. Some fans need to wake up a realized that one good play or game doesn't make a player a superstar or worthy of replacing a starter just as a bad play or game should send a major contributor to the bench. CONSISTENCY is the key...

80780[/snapback]

 

Well I'm tired of the Travis Henry Fan Club shoving an overated runningback down our throats and telling us why we need to turn our backs on his mistakes and shortcomings. Willis McGahee showed why we liked Henry so much last season, hard running. Travis no longer runs as hard as McGahee did last Sunday. Plus, skillwise he's not the same class of back as McGahee. I know that's an assumption right now, but that's how I see it and so far so good.

[CircleTheWagons]

Good point go back to the previous 2 years.  Travis doesn't excel in the fourth quarter.

 

In 2002 his breakdown is:

 

1st    429

2nd  230

3rd    485

4th    294

In 2003:

 

1st        302

2nd      305

3rd      415

4th      329

He has never been a closer.

80805[/snapback]

 

I won't defend Henry - I want WM to start too, BUT I don't think you can take a running backs yards/quarter on a losing team as a good measure of his ability to finish. Any chance those stats have a YPC attached to them? If that stat goes down in the fourth quarter, then I think its more meaningful.

[stevestojan]

I can't believe some of you fans on this board; how you guys can jump on and off the ship so fast. I mean for the Bills sake I hope WM does well. But for god sakes he had one good game. I mean I kept note for at one point he had 23 for 75 yards, nothing special. But then he finished with 111 on 26 as he had a 31-yard run. While he ran hard, kept his feet moving and gain all those yards after contact, if you take away that run he only averaged 3.2 YPC. If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

My biggest irk is that some seem to think WM is so much faster or a break away threat than TH. He hasn't showed me any explosiveness whatsoever this year. The 31 yard run he had was more impressive with the stiff arm he showed than his display of speed. He NEVER explodes into a hole or out off a cut making defenses respect his speed. TH hits the hole way faster and harder than WM. Now WM can get by with his patient running style read and react defenses but aggressive, penetrating defenses will stop him cold if he continues to hesitate at the LOS. With that being said WM is strong runner, hard to bring down, moves the pile much better than I expected; I thought he'd be more of a slasher type. He also is a much better blocker than TH. Next year he might be all that is advertised. But for anybody to think that at this point and moment that WM is head and shoulders, hands down better runner than TH after one game is ludicrous for they must have amnesia to the way TH has played the past 3 seasons.

 

It is a shame that the fans on this board can turn on Bills players so quick after one bad game or stretch. Think about, especially this year: Nate Clemens, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry London Fletcher, and Sam Adams has played consistently above average here for the past few years but once they have one bad play or game the fans here act like they are expendable and over rated. Some fans need to wake up a realized that one good play or game doesn't make a player a superstar or worthy of replacing a starter just as a bad play or game should send a major contributor to the bench. CONSISTENCY is the key...

80780[/snapback]

 

Yes, he had ONE good game. Do you find it to be coincidence that it was his FIRST EVER NFL START?

 

Henry had 1 bad game, 2 mediocre and 1 decent game.

 

Why is it so hard to go with logic and at least START McGahee? If he blows, put henry in. But so far, McGahee is 100% Very good or better on his starts. Henry is 25% at best.

[VABills]

I won't defend Henry - I want WM to start too, BUT I don't think you can take a running backs yards/quarter on a losing team as a good measure of his ability to finish.  Any chance those stats have a YPC attached to them?  If that stat goes down in the fourth quarter, then I think its more meaningful.

80880[/snapback]

So what do you want to do keep changing the criteria, until it proves that he can actually play well.

 

BTW it's

 

2002

 

4.7

3.4

5.3

3.9

 

 

2003

 

3.3

4.6

4.2

4.6

 

BTW, for 2001 it's

 

3.1

3.8

3.6

3.0

 

And this year so far, it's

 

2.4

3.9

4.0

2.4

 

 

 

So anyway you look at it, he never get's better in the fourth over another quarter. In fact it looks like he is better in the 2nd or 3rd and fails otherwise.

[VABills]

BTW WIllis is

 

 

1st -7 -1.8 YPC

2nd 36 4.5

3rd 38 3.2

4th 114 5.4

 

 

I guess by either criteria, Willis is the man.

[CircleTheWagons]

So what do you want to do keep changing the criteria, until it proves that he can actually play well.

80899[/snapback]

 

Thanks for the stats. Why the heck would I want to make Henry look good? I thought yards per quarter doesn't take into account the game situation with a losing team - if we're behind, or we have KG as coordinator then we're probably throwing too much in the 4th quarter and Henry isn't getting any carries - which your original stats would not account for.

 

In fact, if I do some quick math on the stats, Henry gets a lot less carries in the 2nd/4th quarter than he does in the 1st/3rd quarter. Do you see why I wanted to see the YPC?

 

If I came on here and posted that Henry is Mr. Clutch because he hasn't dropped a pass or lost a fumble in two years on our final drive of a game, I'm pretty sure somebody would yell BS (I completely made that stat up)

 

I won't defend Henry (well, unless you're a fish fan ) but I was interested in whether or not he was getting opportunities to get yards in the 4th.