The Giants Insider June/July 2008 post draft issue

[Bill from NYC]

Unfortunately, in order to build a team of playoff caliber, there are 17 other starting positions besides the OL. If your team is deficient in those areas, you have to find quality starters. Once that process is complete, you can look to build depth.

 

Why is that such a difficult concept for so many of you to grasp?

 

LOL!!!

 

You don't get it, do you? The Bills have been a bad to mediocre team because they, over a long period of time, devoted their best resources to the secondary, only to watch them walk away the very second they can. In this sense, chances are that the beloved Whitner and McCorner will do the same.

 

You otoh are lavishing unconditional praise on Levy and Jauron, but they are doing (with the notable, wonderful exception of the 07 draft) the above which again, resulted in long term losing. I know, I know....they spent money on OL UFAs. Yes they did, and they were good choices imo.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the best resources that a cold weather, comparatively "poor," blue collar team will ever have are its early, especially first round draft picks. This is how we got Smith, Bennett, Kelly, etc. There should not be a pattern of wasting them on defensive backs who walk, while the team loses.

I do doubt that you will ever grasp this because your homerism seems to exclude you from being able to even look at the possibility that this team is being, and has been built ass backwards. Hopefully if we fail yet again to reach the playoffs, Jauron will be history.

[Orton's Arm]

over the last TEN years (44 picks), the Bills have drafted 3 OL in the top 4 rounds.

 

Playoff teams have drafted double and triple that, and have made those picks count.

 

2 of the 3 Bills picks were a reach for a RT at #4 and the illustrious Preston of the Yukon in round 4. The 3rd pick was Jennings who is was not kept.

 

Most teams that make improving the OL a priority make the playoffs.

 

The Bills haven't on either count

 

That is why they spent $75 mil on free agents and still have zero depth

 

# of OL picked in rounds1-4 % of picks on OL Rnd 1-4 % of picks on OL Rnd 1-7

BILLS 3 7% 14%

 

BEARS 6 13% 14%

CHARGERS 5 13% 21%

COLTS 5 12% 16%

COWBOYS 7 17% 18%

EAGLES 9 19% 18%

GIANTS 4 11% 12%

JAGUARS 7 17% 15%

PACKERS 6 12% 17%

PANTHERS 8 20% 21%

PATS 7 16% 16%

RAMS 6 13% 19%

SEAHAWKS 9 20% 17%

STEELERS 9 21% 19%

An excellent post, Obie Wan. It's clear you did a lot of research for it.

 

Ever since the Super Bowl years, the Bills' offensive line has generally been mediocre or poor. This past season was an improvement, but even there I felt our line was mediocre at best when it came to run blocking.

 

The line was neglected under Butler, and again under TD.

 

The current regime is a little different. When Marv became general manager, he acquired a roster with a lot of washed-up players like Troy Vincent and Lawyer Milloy, and very little in the way of young talent. Marv said something along the lines of, "if you build for the future, you're building for someone else's future." Over the last three drafts, the Bills have generally used their early picks on positions associated with quick learning curves: RB, LB, CB, SS, etc. Offensive linemen take longer to develop; and this team has filled (or, in Melvin Fowler's case, attempted to fill) its needs via free agency.

 

This general approach of getting quick impact players via the draft, and long-term impact players via free agency, arguably made sense given the Bills' lack of talent at the end of 2005. But now that most of the major holes have been filled, perhaps the Bills will feel able to spend a higher percentage of their early picks on slow developing positions, such as the offensive line. At very least I'd like the Bills to take a center early in next year's draft.

[HurlyBurly51]

Out of curiosity, why the bemoaning of OL depth? I realize we don't have great players there, but they can get us by. We finally have solid starters across the line for the most part. At Tackle we have a swing guy in Chambers, who I admit I am the most uncomfortable with, but he has seen game action and could probably spell us for short periods of time. I think the offense changed because of him when he had to play last year, and thus I'd like to see an upgrade (i.e high draft pick) there but can probably get by with him next year. We're screwed if Peters goes down regardless of who is backing him up. Bell is years away. At Guard, I am completely comfortable with Whittle. I presume the apprehension is over potential health issues. Preston can sometimes be adequate, but is inconsistent. At Center, Preston sucks, but Gaddis just may be our center of the future.

 

It's not ideal depth, but for a team that has just about addressed it's starting quality at positions all over the field, I feel we're only one year away from stocking some quality draft picks to man those backup OL positions. And for this upcoming season, I'm OK with that, because I'd prefer to at least have quality starters at all positions on both offense and defense and let the cards fall as they may, as opposed to having starting quality depth on OL but gaping holes at starting positions on other parts of the team.

[Dibs]

You don't get it, do you? The Bills have been a bad to mediocre team because they, over a long period of time, devoted their best resources to the secondary

I disagree.....the Bills have been a bad to mediocre team because they, over a long period of time have not been successful in drafting for the most of it.....have not brought in good young FAs when appropriate.....and have let good players walk when they should have been retained.

 

Had we not waisted draft picks on....Rob Johnson, Erik Flowers, Travares Tillman, Mike Williams, Willis McGahee, Drew Bledsoe, J.P. Losman and drafted good players instead.....and retained Winfield, Williams & Brown.....we would be looking at a whole different team now. It also would have helped to not have TKO injured & paid the money to bring in good young FAs(like we are doing now) rather than players on their last legs or stopgap types.

 

It's too easy to look at just one factor & cast all the blame there.....there are many areas where the Bills have been badly managed over the last 10-14 years.

[Dibs]

over the last TEN years (44 picks), the Bills have drafted 3 OL in the top 4 rounds.

 

Playoff teams have drafted double and triple that, and have made those picks count.

 

2 of the 3 Bills picks were a reach for a RT at #4 and the illustrious Preston of the Yukon in round 4. The 3rd pick was Jennings who is was not kept.

 

Most teams that make improving the OL a priority make the playoffs.

 

The Bills haven't on either count

 

That is why they spent $75 mil on free agents and still have zero depth.....

I don't think that there is any question the the Bills have grossly ignored the OL over the last decade(or so). But, as you pointed out, the new regime has been addressing the situation by determining what should be kept(resulting in probowl LT).....and bringing in 2 good young FAs. Obviously improving the OL was a priority for us since we spent an entire off-seasons FA budget on two starters for it.

 

In regards to depth.....we don't really need depth so much as we need one or two more starters. If Butler does not firm into a good player then we are looking at the OL equivalent to Ellison & Dig at LB last season. If we manage to get legit starters for C & RG then we have the depth players(Fowler & Butler) already on the roster.

 

By saying say that "Most teams that make improving the OL a priority make the playoffs." you are not really saying much since most teams will have a playoff appearance every couple of years anyway. That being said, I agree that smart teams keep the OL a priority.

[eball]

LOL!!!

 

You don't get it, do you? The Bills have been a bad to mediocre team because they, over a long period of time, devoted their best resources to the secondary, only to watch them walk away the very second they can. In this sense, chances are that the beloved Whitner and McCorner will do the same.

 

You otoh are lavishing unconditional praise on Levy and Jauron, but they are doing (with the notable, wonderful exception of the 07 draft) the above which again, resulted in long term losing. I know, I know....they spent money on OL UFAs. Yes they did, and they were good choices imo.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the best resources that a cold weather, comparatively "poor," blue collar team will ever have are its early, especially first round draft picks. This is how we got Smith, Bennett, Kelly, etc. There should not be a pattern of wasting them on defensive backs who walk, while the team loses.

I do doubt that you will ever grasp this because your homerism seems to exclude you from being able to even look at the possibility that this team is being, and has been built ass backwards. Hopefully if we fail yet again to reach the playoffs, Jauron will be history.

Bill, you are so entrenched in your line of thought you're incapable of separating the 2000-2005 Bills from the 2006-2008 version. There's a reason why the Bills have sucked since their last playoff appearance -- actually two of them. John Butler's infamous "I'm out the door" draft of 2000 and Tom Donahoe. It's not because they let Antoine Winfield or Nate Clements go. Ever since Levy and Jauron arrived, the Bills have made a concerted effort to restock the talent cupboard, and they devoted significant resources to both lines. Because they haven't done it "your way" you deem them to be incompetent.

 

You, sir, are the short-sighted and stubborn one. Tell me the talent level of this team now, compared to where it was at the end of the 2005 season, is not night and day? Is that not worth congratulating the folks who have overseen the process?

 

Of course it's not -- not to you, and not to several others on this board who live in negativity and see only through their tunnel-vision glasses.

[Beerball]

LOL!!!

 

You don't get it, do you? The Bills have been a bad to mediocre team because they, over a long period of time, devoted their best resources to the secondary, only to watch them walk away the very second they can. In this sense, chances are that the beloved Whitner and McCorner will do the same.

 

You otoh are lavishing unconditional praise on Levy and Jauron, but they are doing (with the notable, wonderful exception of the 07 draft) the above which again, resulted in long term losing. I know, I know....they spent money on OL UFAs. Yes they did, and they were good choices imo.

What I am trying to get across to you is that the best resources that a cold weather, comparatively "poor," blue collar team will ever have are its early, especially first round draft picks. This is how we got Smith, Bennett, Kelly, etc. There should not be a pattern of wasting them on defensive backs who walk, while the team loses.

I do doubt that you will ever grasp this because your homerism seems to exclude you from being able to even look at the possibility that this team is being, and has been built ass backwards. Hopefully if we fail yet again to reach the playoffs, Jauron will be history.

Could it be considered 'sound strategy' for a team to get an abundance of their lineman via FA? Using your DB scenario why pick linemen only to wait 3-4 years for them to develop & then have them leave as soon as they are showing signs of turning into honest to goodness real NFL players? That would be wasting picks, no?

[Orton's Arm]

Bill, you are so entrenched in your line of thought you're incapable of separating the 2000-2005 Bills from the 2006-2008 version. There's a reason why the Bills have sucked since their last playoff appearance -- actually two of them. John Butler's infamous "I'm out the door" draft of 2000 and Tom Donahoe. It's not because they let Antoine Winfield or Nate Clements go.

You are wrong. Letting your first round picks go "first contract and out" is an excellent way to harm your franchise. If the Bills consider CB to be an automatic "first contract and out" position, they shouldn't use first round picks on CBs. When you use a first round pick on a guy, the hope should be for him to spend his career with your team. Guys like that are the building blocks of successful football franchises.

 

I'm not the slightest bit concerned over how well McKelvin will actually play. My only real fear with him is that he'll end up being another "first contract and out" first round CB. If the Bills extend his contract at some point, I'll mark him down as a successful pick.

Ever since Levy and Jauron arrived, the Bills have made a concerted effort to restock the talent cupboard, and they devoted significant resources to both lines. Because they haven't done it "your way" you deem them to be incompetent.

The Bills have indeed made significant improvements under the Levy/Jauron regime, but there's still a lot of work to be done. The Bills could use starting caliber players at C and TE. I wouldn't mind seeing upgrades at one or two of the other offensive line positions. If the Bills can get those things taken care of during the 2009 draft, and if they can extend Evans before he hits free agency, they'll have taken a big step forward.

 

There's a lot to be excited about, and I expect the Bills to be a much better team this season than they were last season. But I'll feel even more excited when the things I mentioned above have been dealt with.