John Adams Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 I am referring to total taxation. I could care less which tax it is applied to. But you're mixing personal income tax and corporate tax. The companies don't pay income tax. You do. You're the one who was bitching because the corporation paid "less" in taxes than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 But you're mixing personal income tax and corporate tax. The companies don't pay income tax. You do. You're the one who was bitching because the corporation paid "less" in taxes than you do. It seems relevant to me how much they pay in taxes as a percentage. I was "bitching" as you put it, because the percentage was lower. Hard to feel much sympathy for someone paying a lower percentage, oh wait people do that all the time on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 Am I missing something (probably), but that looks like a 25% tax rate. Is that including things the company purchases? If so call the waambulance as my taxation rate is much higher. It seems to include sales tax. Do those figure include matching SS funds? You're paying over 25% of your gross income? Are you retarded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 You're paying over 25% of your gross income? As far as total taxation (not just income tax) yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 It seems relevant to me how much they pay in taxes as a percentage. I was "bitching" as you put it, because the percentage was lower. Hard to feel much sympathy for someone paying a lower percentage, oh wait people do that all the time on here. So you're jealous of a non-person because it pays 25% (several billion dollars) a year in taxes and you pay more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 So you're jealous of a non-person because it pays 25% (several billion dollars) a year in taxes and you pay more? Not particularly jealous, just don't feel any sympathy for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 As far as total taxation (not just income tax) yes. What tax that you're paying do you think they're skipping out on? Why in the world do you think it's a good idea to raise taxes on an entity that provides jobs? What positive effect would come from it? At some point, you're going to realize that any change that results in the government seizing more money is akin to feeding an alligator with the hope that he eats you last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 What tax that you're paying do you think they're skipping out on? Why in the world do you think it's a good idea to raise taxes on an entity that provides jobs? What positive effect would come from it? At some point, you're going to realize that any change that results in the government seizing more money is akin to feeding an alligator with the hope that he eats you last. Way to recast what I said in a fashion that isn't even close to my intent. I am discussing total taxation. They pay 25%. I am decidedly middle class. I pay more. I am not jealous, nor am I even advocating more taxes on them. I was just shocked by the figure. I have heard 40% tossed around here as a figure. I do agree that giving the government money is almost futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Way to recast what I said in a fashion that isn't even close to my intent. I am discussing total taxation. They pay 25%. I am decidedly middle class. I pay more. I am not jealous, nor am I even advocating more taxes on them. I was just shocked by the figure. I have heard 40% tossed around here as a figure. I do agree that giving the government money is almost futile. Accounting was never my strong point, but it appears that you have calculated the percent based on gross income and total taxes paid. There are several 'deductions' (and I use the word very loosely) that a company can take before calculating the taxes owed such as depreciation etc. To make a very basic statement, I think it is like calculating taking your gross salary and taxes paid without accounting for standard deductions. Am I missing your point ? Nanker's point is very powerful. Companies such as XOM pay enormous taxes to the government which pays their officials to talk smack about them. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Building roads and bridges provides jobs right? I can't imagine what even the small projects cost that you see going on. There is one road I take into work and it is being repaired at night... Just resurfacing, core samples and some small strengthing... You know, your basic work after a hard winter... I can't begin to fathom what that project alone costs? It isn't on a toll road either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Accounting was never my strong point, but it appears that you have calculated the percent based on gross income and total taxes paid. There are several 'deductions' (and I use the word very loosely) that a company can take before calculating the taxes owed such as depreciation etc. To make a very basic statement, I think it is like calculating taking your gross salary and taxes paid without accounting for standard deductions. Am I missing your point ?Nanker's point is very powerful. Companies such as XOM pay enormous taxes to the government which pays their officials to talk smack about them. Nice. Really? I am not a bean counter either... Just a working slob that has to work swing shift as a laborer that gets access to a computer. Just wondering... Do a lot of you out there think that we can get the infrastructure (which I hope the bulk of energy companies taxes goes to) maintained adequately if we cut the pencil pushing chumps out of the equation? If some actually get what they wish for, I am sure they might not like the outcome and will surely piss and moan about other issues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Way to recast what I said in a fashion that isn't even close to my intent. I am discussing total taxation. They pay 25%. I am decidedly middle class. I pay more. I am not jealous, nor am I even advocating more taxes on them. I was just shocked by the figure. I have heard 40% tossed around here as a figure. I do agree that giving the government money is almost futile. Except 25% likely isn't their total taxation and I wouldn't be surprised if you added up everything else they're taxed on (just like we are, in most cases), if they aren't paying closer to that total. And I wasn't recasting what you said. I was looking for clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 6, 2008 Author Share Posted May 6, 2008 Building roads and bridges provides jobs right? I can't imagine what even the small projects cost that you see going on. There is one road I take into work and it is being repaired at night... Just resurfacing, core samples and some small strengthing... You know, your basic work after a hard winter... I can't begin to fathom what that project alone costs? It isn't on a toll road either. That's one of the funny things about liberals. Our Federal government gets 1/5th of every dollar in this country and has a terrible time maintaining the infrastructure because they love to spend money for votes and things like roads just ain't sexy to people with their hands out. They get more than enough to do what the Constitution mandates. They simply choose not to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 That's one of the funny things about liberals. Our Federal government gets 1/5th of every dollar in this country and has a terrible time maintaining the infrastructure because they love to spend money for votes and things like roads just ain't sexy to people with their hands out. They get more than enough to do what the Constitution mandates. They simply choose not to do it. Get me the facts on that and I will agree! Where can you find out stuff like that (ie: what things actually cost vs. waste)... Really, there has to be impartial studies out there? I do agree Darin... Yet, these projects have to be big money drains... Think of the price of concrete per yard?... They lay that down like water... Some of these projects you see have to be upwards in the 10's if not 100's of millions! Just getting a rehab here at work will cost around 100 million on a project that completed new in 1960 at around 6 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I am gonna add without editing the above. The point is, especially here where I work... They mine as well tear the place down and build it new than to polish a turd... They may even be able to engineer into the price a way as not to divert any water away from the Great Lakes... You don't fix a 50 year leaky faucet or energy wasting device, you throw it away and get a new, more efficient one. Point? Our infrastructure is aging well BEYOND the rated service life... This adds to the cost I suppose in ways and maybe helps in others. Agree, the gov't has to make SMART choices... Who else will? That's where my idealism lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 We could live in a country with the infrastructure of say Myanmar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Taxes are not killing us. The gadflies that like to make us think we are being drowned in taxation are just complainers looking to bytch and moan about something. An "alligator" my ass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Taxes are not killing us. The gadflies that like to make us think we are being drowned in taxation are just complainers looking to bytch and moan about something. An "alligator" my ass! I agree. Even with fuel approaching 6 bucks a gallon on the water... You see no shortage of boast and yachts... Numbers keep going, people keep getting richer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 I agree. Even with fuel approaching 6 bucks a gallon on the water... You see no shortage of boast and yachts... Numbers keep going, people keep getting richer! What? They're not afraid of the big bad alligator coming to get them out there on Lake Michigan? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Taxes are not killing us. The gadflies that like to make us think we are being drowned in taxation are just complainers looking to bytch and moan about something. An "alligator" my ass! I am not sure what point you are trying to make. I do not subscribe to the 'no-tax' theory. However, I am paying my fair share of taxes and have a right to complain when I see that money wasted. Example - subsidies for producing ethanol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 6, 2008 Share Posted May 6, 2008 Taxes are not killing us. The gadflies that like to make us think we are being drowned in taxation are just complainers looking to bytch and moan about something. An "alligator" my ass! Explain to me that by not having, let's say 10% more income in everyone's pocket would not be good for the economy. I love that line that the government provides jobs through construction and roads. I just drove by the intersection in LA of the 405 and the 10 freeways. They've been working on that since I moved west and have gotten absolutely nowhere. Yeah, the goverment doesn't wast money. BTW, I moved west 25 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Explain to me that by not having, let's say 10% more income in everyone's pocket would not be good for the economy. I love that line that the government provides jobs through construction and roads. I just drove by the intersection in LA of the 405 and the 10 freeways. They've been working on that since I moved west and have gotten absolutely nowhere. Yeah, the goverment doesn't wast money. BTW, I moved west 25 years ago. Ya... Like you know all the facts... People do have a right to complain... Yet, you are going to get a zillion complaints about how to spend the money "properly"... Every citizen is an expert no doubt... But come on! The old sayiing is that the cutomer is always right... Yet, the fact is clear that most of the time they are dead wrong. Like we are suppose to listen to a guy in Alaska and Kalifornia on how to spend the money and take that as Gospel... This is the season for rollyeyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Taxes are not killing us. The gadflies that like to make us think we are being drowned in taxation are just complainers looking to bytch and moan about something. An "alligator" my ass! Ummm yea...I'm bitching and moaning....29% of what I make goes to Uncle Sam...That means I work the first 15 weeks of the year for the government. I am sooo down with a flat tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Ummm yea...I'm bitching and moaning....29% of what I make goes to Uncle Sam...That means I work the first 15 weeks of the year for government. I am sooo down with a flat tax. How do you get taxed 29% when my wife and I make good money and we were taxed 8%. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booster4324 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 How do you get taxed 29% when my wife and I make good money and we were taxed 8%. ?? No sales tax in Il? No SS tax? No Gas taxes? Damn, I need to consider moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm single...the single man is doooomed...and I make a fair amount. I'm punished for doing everything correctly...Joined the military and learned a skill, went to college, earned a master's...kept myself out of trouble.....got a good job....and now I'm paying the man. Edit: I also don't own a home...Not sure about where I'm gonna live yet when I return from Australia....Not down with the rental property..Tried it once and tired of tenants who didn't pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 No sales tax in Il? No SS tax? No Gas taxes? Damn, I need to consider moving. I am just talking Fed income, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I'm single...the single man is doooomed...and I make a fair amount. I'm punished for doing everything correctly...Joined the military and learned a skill, went to college, earned a master's...kept myself out of trouble.....got a good job....and now I'm paying the man. Edit: I also don't own a home...Not sure about where I'm gonna live yet when I return from Australia....Not down with the rental property..Tried it once and tired of tenants who didn't pay. Some say punished. Some say helping others... You like to help others, right? It is all about perspective. Think how blessed and better off you are than many others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Some say punished. Some say helping othersGod helps those who help themselves...right? It's called join the army, navy, marines, peace corps...whatever...there are ways out of any situation...It's called quit feeling sorry for your self and make something of yourself. There were 2 paths I coulda taken...one good...one bad....I don't buy any sad story....We all make choices...Live with em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Ya... Like you know all the facts... People do have a right to complain... Yet, you are going to get a zillion complaints about how to spend the money "properly"... Every citizen is an expert no doubt... But come on! The old sayiing is that the cutomer is always right... Yet, the fact is clear that most of the time they are dead wrong. Like we are suppose to listen to a guy in Alaska and Kalifornia on how to spend the money and take that as Gospel... This is the season for rollyeyes: No I don't know all the facts. But the main fact that I don't know is how much money they've spent on that five mile stretch of road over the past 25 years. But I imagine the amount has a shiiitload of zeros after it. But the fact that I do know is they've spent those shiitloads of our dollars, oh, and yours too seeing it's federal money goes to these roads, and it's not gotten any better, as a matter of fact it's a LOT worse. If you're cool with that and you think that the government is doing a dandy job of spending our money I don't think Darin and I are the ones with the issues. And when you start listening to the people in Washington on how to spend our money instead of the person in Alaska and California you might as well kiss your freedom goodbye. Oh, BTW, where does your paycheck come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 God helps those who help themselves...right? It's called join the army, navy, marines, peace corps...whatever...there are ways out of any situation...It's called quit feeling sorry for your self and make something of yourself. There were 2 paths I coulda taken...one good...one bad....I don't buy any sad story....We all make choices...Live with em. Exactly! Then why are you b*tching that you are being punished? Nobody owes you anything even after you make soemthing of yourself... Suck it up and pay your taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Oh, BTW, where does your paycheck come from? The general fund of course! Outside of arguing with you chuckleheads, I am actually aiding the economy with regards to commercial transportation. Try moving your goods cost effectively without the help of the gov't dime... You would most likely feel it first with the price of grain on the market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 The general fund of course! Outside of arguing with you chuckleheads, I am actually aiding the economy with regards to commercial transportation. Try moving your goods cost effectively without the help of the gov't dime... You would most likely feel it first with the price of grain on the market... Of course, interstate commerce and infrastructure are both Constitutionally mandated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Exactly! Then why are you b*tching that you are being punished? Nobody owes you anything even after you make soemthing of yourself... Suck it up and pay your taxes. That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read....Seriously...I think the more you make , the less taxes you should pay...It would be an incentive for people to get off their asses or everyone pays the same percentage over lets say $25,000...those under $25k pay nothing....There..I helped the poor and provided incentives for everyone else. I don't mind helping people out but goddamn..there's a limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Of course, interstate commerce and infrastructure are both Constitutionally mandated... True. I was just commenting on his rollyeyes. Obviuosly Chef feels the road project in California is getting worse... Something has to be going on there? I find it hard to believe that they actually enjoy making things worse? I am not sure what he means by worse? Is traffic increasing or are the roads physically getting worse? Now if they are physically getting worse, that is a problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 True. I was just commenting on his rollyeyes. Obviuosly Chef feels the road project in California is getting worse... Something has to be going on there? I find it hard to believe that they actually enjoy making things worse? I am not sure what he means by worse? Is traffic increasing or are the roads physically getting worse? Now if they are physically getting worse, that is a problem! California simply grew too fast and there wasn't enough forward thinking. I think Chef's probably saying both things. I know that when they completed Highway 85 in NoCal, they said it was the last major freeway they'd build in the area. Now considering the place's population continues to expand... Is it a money issue? I'm sure at least some of it is. But California's government is a microcosm of the United States. They steal valuable infrastructure money to fund programs that are popular but incredibly inefficient and then cry poverty and continue to raise taxes. At the end something has to give. Contrary to Molson's continuing retardation, I do believe taxes are a necessary evil. The question is how much, how levied, and what it pays for. I think people would be absolutely stunned if they really knew what was going on with their money. If you think the economy sucks now, wait until the real off the books expenses come home to roost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 California simply grew too fast and there wasn't enough forward thinking. I think Chef's probably saying both things. I know that when they completed Highway 85 in NoCal, they said it was the last major freeway they'd build in the area. Now considering the place's population continues to expand... Is it a money issue? I'm sure at least some of it is. But California's government is a microcosm of the United States. They steal valuable infrastructure money to fund programs that are popular but incredibly inefficient and then cry poverty and continue to raise taxes. At the end something has to give. Contrary to Molson's continuing retardation, I do believe taxes are a necessary evil. The question is how much, how levied, and what it pays for. I think people would be absolutely stunned if they really knew what was going on with their money. If you think the economy sucks now, wait until the real off the books expenses come home to roost. This is the sign of the end Darin... I couldn't agree more with you! You do get the gratuitous "Molsen is retarded" jibe in there! I was starting to read and thought: "A kinder and gentler AD"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Ummm yea...I'm bitching and moaning....29% of what I make goes to Uncle Sam...That means I work the first 15 weeks of the year for the government. I am sooo down with a flat tax. Why do you like a flat tax? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted May 8, 2008 Share Posted May 8, 2008 Why do you like a flat tax? For the same reason that people with functioning synapses and a modicum of logic like it. It removes the incentives to game the system, raises the cost of tax avoidance and simplifies tax preparation and collection. But most importantly, it will push thousands of intelligent people working in the tax minimization industry towards more productive jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted May 8, 2008 Author Share Posted May 8, 2008 For the same reason that people with functioning synapses and a modicum of logic like it. It removes the incentives to game the system, raises the cost of tax avoidance and simplifies tax preparation and collection. But most importantly, it will push thousands of intelligent people working in the tax minimization industry towards more productive jobs. Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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