Chef Jim Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Which is a result of the religion itself, or are there other factors involved? Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 and what does that have to do with Fitna? I agree that all religions have zealots. I agree that every religion, country, race, etc has periods that they should be ashamed of. But what about the film? The film concludes with scrolling messages reading in part: "The government insists that you respect Islam, but Islam has no respect for you" and "In 1945, Nazism was defeated in Europe. In 1989, communism was defeated in Europe. Now the Islamic ideology has to be defeated." Again, The film used only excerpts from The Koran to spread fear, hate and misunderstanding. (Just as one can easily do with The Bible) The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Does it matter? Yes, over the long term. It determines what, exactly, you are trying to fight. Short term you aren't going to change anyone who is already a terrorist away from being one. But, for the long term, are you fighting a religion (as many people seem to believe we should be), or are you fighting something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 and what does that have to do with Fitna? I agree that all religions have zealots. I agree that every religion, country, race, etc has periods that they should be ashamed of. But what about the film? Fitna's argument is that the religion is causing terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yes, over the long term. It determines what, exactly, you are trying to fight. Short term you aren't going to change anyone who is already a terrorist away from being one. But, for the long term, are you fighting a religion (as many people seem to believe we should be), or are you fighting something else? If in the short term your head is rolling down a flight of stairs, your perspective on the long term might change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 The film concludes with scrolling messages reading in part: "The government insists that you respect Islam, but Islam has no respect for you" and "In 1945, Nazism was defeated in Europe. In 1989, communism was defeated in Europe. Now the Islamic ideology has to be defeated." Again, The film used only excerpts from The Koran to spread fear, hate and misunderstanding. (Just as one can easily do with The Bible) The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence. Of course that's true but it can be a hard sell to some. You'd think the math would be enough to convince people; there are over 1 billion Muslims in the world. If they were all hell bent on destruction of the non-believing masses you'd have carnage everywhere. As to your point in an earlier point about the religion causing terrorism or "something else." That's an important question for us and people all around the world. The vast majority of these Muslim terrorists are disaffected young men living in monarchies, dictatorships, or some other form of non-democratic government. Most live in countries with very high unemployment and little hope in the way of economic opportunities. Many live in vastly rich countries with huge disparities in how the wealth from those resources is distributed. Many also have lived entire lives in areas destroyed by routine terrorist acts and the reprisals for those acts. Compounding this is instant access to mass media messages and images. Is it any wonder at all that these are the people targeted by these radical clerics? Is it a surprise that their message would APPEAL to this type of individual? That they could be so willing to embrace the message? Not if history is any indication. It isn't the religion. It's twisting it to enlist those willing to believe the twisted message. In the end it's not about religion at all. It's just politics as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 It isn't the religion. It's twisting it to enlist those willing to believe the twisted message. In the end it's not about religion at all. It's just politics as usual. If the last words you heard were "Praise Allah" before your head was used in a soccer game, my guess is that you might think religion has something to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 If the last words you heard were "Praise Allah" before your head was used in a soccer game, my guess is that you might think religion has something to do with it. I thought the head rolling joke was funny the first 3.5 times I read it just as Holcombe's Arm predicted it would be. But then I thought of my head being used in a soccer game when I've clearly stated in my last will that it only be used in Argentine polo matches and I became worried. I will demand of my Muslim captors that my head be sent to Arizona and placed next to Ted Williams' in a cryogenic container. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I thought the head rolling joke was funny the first 3.5 times I read it just as Holcombe's Arm predicted it would be. But then I thought of my head being used in a soccer game when I've clearly stated in my last will that it only be used in Argentine polo matches and I became worried. I will demand of my Muslim captors that my head be sent to Arizona and placed next to Ted Williams' in a cryogenic container. I don't think they'll really give a crap about your cranial demands. And I also don't think you'll consider it an accomplishment if your head picks up the 7-10 split at the Jazeera open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted April 2, 2008 Author Share Posted April 2, 2008 More Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 More A terrorist leader claims killing of non-muslims is legitimate. How is this news, exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 A terrorist leader claims killing of non-muslims is legitimate. How is this news, exactly? http://www.september11victims.com/septembe...ictims_list.htm If one of these nut jobs had access to a nuclear weapon, and/or a bio weapon, and/or a chemical weapon- don't you think they would use it? 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. I suspect the majority are peace loving. But there are enough wackos with the means and wherewithal to acquire or create one. I worry about global security. Not just Muslims, but our foreign policy, North Korea, Soviet oligarchs, and other roque nations, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 http://www.september11victims.com/septembe...ictims_list.htm If one of these nut jobs had access to a nuclear weapon, and/or a bio weapon, and/or a chemical weapon- don't you think they would use it? 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. I suspect the majority are peace loving. But there are enough wackos with the means and wherewithal to acquire or create one. I worry about global security. Not just Muslims, but our foreign policy, North Korea, Soviet oligorths, and other roque nations, etc Less than 5% of Muslims are radical. Less than 5% of Americans were on that list. Coincidence? The dude is in college. Don't argue with him or he will continue to give you the intellectual slap down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Less than 5% of Muslims are radical. Less than 5% of Americans were on that list. Coincidence? The dude is in college. Don't argue with him or he will continue to give you the intellectual slap down. I am sorry. That is right- 21 year olds know it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 http://www.september11victims.com/septembe...ictims_list.htm If one of these nut jobs had access to a nuclear weapon, and/or a bio weapon, and/or a chemical weapon- don't you think they would use it? 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. I suspect the majority are peace loving. But there are enough wackos with the means and wherewithal to acquire or create one. I worry about global security. Not just Muslims, but our foreign policy, North Korea, Soviet oligarchs, and other roque nations, etc I don't get where this response came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I don't get where this response came from. It came from his head, which is luckily not being sky-hooked through the hoop by Kareem Abdul Abdullah at the present moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I don't get where this response came from. It is how Fitna is news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 It is how Fitna is news Your retreating into vagueness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In space no one can hear Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 It came from his head, which is luckily not being sky-hooked through the hoop by Kareem Abdul Abdullah at the present moment. Thanks for taking another one of your obligatory dumps. Feel better now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Your retreating into vagueness. How is this vague? If one of these nut jobs had access to a nuclear weapon, and/or a bio weapon, and/or a chemical weapon- don't you think they would use it? 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. I suspect the majority are peace loving. But there are enough wackos with the means and wherewithal to acquire or create one. I worry about global security. Not just Muslims, but our foreign policy, North Korea, Soviet oligarchs, and other roque nations, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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