HA! just called out ESPN on chat wrap...

[jri111]

Fans must realize that they wear colored glasses when it comes to their favorite team. They dont see everything that a person who may not be a fan of the team, sees. I think his point was that we could have paid Gandy WAY less than Dockery, and he probably see's something in Gandy that we did not. We watch on TV and at the stadium. These guys are watching gametape and analyzing things all the time. Thats part of their job.

 

It just drives me crazy how many fans on this board call ESPN, CBS, sports writers ... etc all crazy and wrong, when they (the fans on this board) probably know less about the individual player (or football in general) than the reporters do.

 

 

You're right about the Gandy thing, he may have seen something different and he may be factoring cost into his analysis.

 

 

As for your other comments you're 100% wrong. In general I would say die-hard fans know their team much better then these "national reporters" most of the time. The fans simply scrutinize and analize their team 24/7 while these guys may spend 15 minutes looking at any particualr team's roster at any given time.

 

My beef comes when guys like Jeremey Green (that's his name right?), literally tore the bills a new a$$ hole because he thought they were crazy for getting rid of all these players. I understand that they don't have infinite time and resources to reasearch every team in full, but if you're going to make bold comments then you better be able to back them up. My biggest problem with ESPN is their analysis. How much attention did McGahee get in Buffalo? Hardly any. He goes to Baltimore and all of a sudden he's the second coming.

 

The reason is simple: money. ESPN makes its money from advertising, just like any other television channel. Therefore, they have made it a business decision to catar to the large market teams. I'm not talking about kissing their butts, but giving them much more attention and providing much more analysis. I mean come on, you can hardly turn on sportscenter without hearing about The Eagles, Patriots, Skins or Cowboys. What then happens is less attention to the small market teams like Buffalo. This is to be expected and it makes perfect financial sense.

 

I never had a problem with this, before, even when their coverage of the Bills was skim. It might not have been much, but at least when they talked about the Bills before, they knew what they were saying. Now, though, it just seems like the scan the headlines and don't even bother doing the research. They make these statements like 'the bills have had the worst offseason in football' or 'levy is off his rocker,' and provide not rationalization for their analysis. They determine that instead of wasting their time to figure out why the bills did X or traded palyer y, they'd spend their time scrutinizing every minute detail of the larger market teams.

 

In essense, ESPN, and others, have said "so what if we alienate the small markets, they won't make much of a difference in the ratings anyways." So they go out and make these unfounded statements. Every time they talk about McGahee and how he's going to revolutionize the Baltimore offesense, how many more fans in Baltimore are going to be inclined to tune in? Had they said that the McGahee trade was bad for Baltimore all those "big city" viewers won't watch. It's just natural fan behavior. I do it and you do it too.

 

I don't have thin skin, and I accept critizism of the Bills. they deserved it, they haven't been in the playoffs for almost 8 years now. They have to prove something on the field before they can be talked about positivily. But I expect it to be educated critisims. I don't think that's much to ask for from a Network wholly dedicated to sports.

 

Concluding though, you're aboslutely right that these analysis and reporters aren't dumb. they're good at what they do or they wouldn't be doing it. But just because they are in the positions that they're in, doesn't mean that know more about the Bills or their needs anymore then you or I do. We have one team to Critique over and over and over again. They cover (at least) 32 teams so their knowledge is obviously going to be less. They are professional journalist though and making uneducated and unreasearched comments - regardless of the other factors (ratings, big-market, small-market, etc...) - is unprofessional. They have standards in their job and claim to be "experts" and I don't think it's unfair to hold them to those standards. You're expected to be held to certain standards in your jobs, are you not? They don't have to know all of the ins- and outs- of a team as we do, but they should know enough to make educated comments. If Michael Smith has a comment to make about McGahee in sportscenter that night, then he should be the time and effort into the sitaution. He should be a good jouranlist. He can have any opinion he wants, he's certainly entited to it and gets paid for it, but his responsbilities and duties as an analysist should mean that he does so with some knowledge of what he's talking about.

[The Big Cat]

You're right about the Gandy thing, he may have seen something different and he may be factoring cost into his analysis.

As for your other comments you're 100% wrong. In general I would say die-hard fans know their team much better then these "national reporters" most of the time. The fans simply scrutinize and analize their team 24/7 while these guys may spend 15 minutes looking at any particualr team's roster at any given time.

 

My beef comes when guys like Jeremey Green (that's his name right?), literally tore the bills a new a$$ hole because he thought they were crazy for getting rid of all these players. I understand that they don't have infinite time and resources to reasearch every team in full, but if you're going to make bold comments then you better be able to back them up. My biggest problem with ESPN is their analysis. How much attention did McGahee get in Buffalo? Hardly any. He goes to Baltimore and all of a sudden he's the second coming.

 

The reason is simple: money. ESPN makes its money from advertising, just like any other television channel. Therefore, they have made it a business decision to catar to the large market teams. I'm not talking about kissing their butts, but giving them much more attention and providing much more analysis. I mean come on, you can hardly turn on sportscenter without hearing about The Eagles, Patriots, Skins or Cowboys. What then happens is less attention to the small market teams like Buffalo. This is to be expected and it makes perfect financial sense.

 

I never had a problem with this, before, even when their coverage of the Bills was skim. It might not have been much, but at least when they talked about the Bills before, they knew what they were saying. Now, though, it just seems like the scan the headlines and don't even bother doing the research. They make these statements like 'the bills have had the worst offseason in football' or 'levy is off his rocker,' and provide not rationalization for their analysis. They determine that instead of wasting their time to figure out why the bills did X or traded palyer y, they'd spend their time scrutinizing every minute detail of the larger market teams.

 

In essense, ESPN, and others, have said "so what if we alienate the small markets, they won't make much of a difference in the ratings anyways." So they go out and make these unfounded statements. Every time they talk about McGahee and how he's going to revolutionize the Baltimore offesense, how many more fans in Baltimore are going to be inclined to tune in? Had they said that the McGahee trade was bad for Baltimore all those "big city" viewers won't watch. It's just natural fan behavior. I do it and you do it too.

 

I don't have thin skin, and I accept critizism of the Bills. they deserved it, they haven't been in the playoffs for almost 8 years now. They have to prove something on the field before they can be talked about positivily. But I expect it to be educated critisims. I don't think that's much to ask for from a Network wholly dedicated to sports.

 

Concluding though, you're aboslutely right that these analysis and reporters aren't dumb. they're good at what they do or they wouldn't be doing it. But just because they are in the positions that they're in, doesn't mean that know more about the Bills or their needs anymore then you or I do. We have one team to Critique over and over and over again. They cover (at least) 32 teams so their knowledge is obviously going to be less. They are professional journalist though and making uneducated and unreasearched comments - regardless of the other factors (ratings, big-market, small-market, etc...) - is unprofessional. They have standards in their job and claim to be "experts" and I don't think it's unfair to hold them to those standards. You're expected to be held to certain standards in your jobs, are you not? They don't have to know all of the ins- and outs- of a team as we do, but they should know enough to make educated comments. If Michael Smith has a comment to make about McGahee in sportscenter that night, then he should be the time and effort into the sitaution. He should be a good jouranlist. He can have any opinion he wants, he's certainly entited to it and gets paid for it, but his responsbilities and duties as an analysist should mean that he does so with some knowledge of what he's talking about.

 

same problem we have with the national media at large- when the news becomes entertainment (ESPN owned by Disney) the truth gets siphoned to support ratings.

[OCinBuffalo]

Fans must realize that they wear colored glasses when it comes to their favorite team. They dont see everything that a person who may not be a fan of the team, sees. I think his point was that we could have paid Gandy WAY less than Dockery, and he probably see's something in Gandy that we did not. We watch on TV and at the stadium. These guys are watching gametape and analyzing things all the time. Thats part of their job.

 

It just drives me crazy how many fans on this board call ESPN, CBS, sports writers ... etc all crazy and wrong, when they (the fans on this board) probably know less about the individual player (or football in general) than the reporters do.

Right, and Miami(6-10 ) won the Super Bowl last year after beating Baltimore(13-3 but predicted 9-7 after how many years of being good?), Pittsburgh(8-8) and Indianapolis(SB) on their own fields in the playoffs. The Giants(8-8) beat the Mighty Redskins(5-11 ) in their first playoff game, then beat the Seahawks, but then lost to the Panthers(8-8) in the championship game as well. Of course all these things happened as predicted due to the intensive study and analysis of the "reporters" in question. The fact that Miami, DC, and the Giants are all in the top ten Media markets had nothing to do with it.

 

Right, and the Chiefs, Chargers(wtf? they had them going 7-9), and Saints were all ".500 or worse" last year, just as predicted, and that fact that they are all in smaller markets had nothing to do with this either.

 

Right, and the fact that Drew Brees ended up as a marginal FA acquisition while Dante Culpepper(about to be released apparently) was a stroke of genius has nothing to do with hyping big markets either.

 

Any more you want to say about what these "reporters" "know"? If I ever start gambling on Pro Football again, I'll be sure to get my plays from you and these guys.

[jri111]

well, I also know where you live John from Arlington, VA

 

 

 

HAHA, ok you know my first name and where i'm from. I'll give! I expect chrismas presents now though!

[jri111]

same problem we have with the national media at large- when the news becomes entertainment (ESPN owned by Disney) the truth gets siphoned to support ratings.

 

Dont get me started on the news media. they make ESPN and the Sports media look like ulter boys in comparison!! another conversation for another message board though!!

[daquix]

You're right about the Gandy thing, he may have seen something different and he may be factoring cost into his analysis.

As for your other comments you're 100% wrong. In general I would say die-hard fans know their team much better then these "national reporters" most of the time. The fans simply scrutinize and analize their team 24/7 while these guys may spend 15 minutes looking at any particualr team's roster at any given time.

 

Of course you do. You're one of those fans they disagree with.

 

My beef comes when guys like Jeremey Green (that's his name right?), literally tore the bills a new a$$ hole because he thought they were crazy for getting rid of all these players. I understand that they don't have infinite time and resources to reasearch every team in full, but if you're going to make bold comments then you better be able to back them up. My biggest problem with ESPN is their analysis. How much attention did McGahee get in Buffalo? Hardly any. He goes to Baltimore and all of a sudden he's the second coming.

 

The reason is simple: money. ESPN makes its money from advertising, just like any other television channel. Therefore, they have made it a business decision to catar to the large market teams. I'm not talking about kissing their butts, but giving them much more attention and providing much more analysis. I mean come on, you can hardly turn on sportscenter without hearing about The Eagles, Patriots, Skins or Cowboys. What then happens is less attention to the small market teams like Buffalo. This is to be expected and it makes perfect financial sense.

 

I never had a problem with this, before, even when their coverage of the Bills was skim. It might not have been much, but at least when they talked about the Bills before, they knew what they were saying. Now, though, it just seems like the scan the headlines and don't even bother doing the research. They make these statements like 'the bills have had the worst offseason in football' or 'levy is off his rocker,' and provide not rationalization for their analysis. They determine that instead of wasting their time to figure out why the bills did X or traded palyer y, they'd spend their time scrutinizing every minute detail of the larger market teams.

 

In essense, ESPN, and others, have said "so what if we alienate the small markets, they won't make much of a difference in the ratings anyways." So they go out and make these unfounded statements. Every time they talk about McGahee and how he's going to revolutionize the Baltimore offesense, how many more fans in Baltimore are going to be inclined to tune in? Had they said that the McGahee trade was bad for Baltimore all those "big city" viewers won't watch. It's just natural fan behavior. I do it and you do it too.

 

I don't have thin skin, and I accept critizism of the Bills. they deserved it, they haven't been in the playoffs for almost 8 years now. They have to prove something on the field before they can be talked about positivily. But I expect it to be educated critisims. I don't think that's much to ask for from a Network wholly dedicated to sports.

 

Concluding though, you're aboslutely right that these analysis and reporters aren't dumb. they're good at what they do or they wouldn't be doing it. But just because they are in the positions that they're in, doesn't mean that know more about the Bills or their needs anymore then you or I do. We have one team to Critique over and over and over again. They cover (at least) 32 teams so their knowledge is obviously going to be less. They are professional journalist though and making uneducated and unreasearched comments - regardless of the other factors (ratings, big-market, small-market, etc...) - is unprofessional. They have standards in their job and claim to be "experts" and I don't think it's unfair to hold them to those standards. You're expected to be held to certain standards in your jobs, are you not? They don't have to know all of the ins- and outs- of a team as we do, but they should know enough to make educated comments. If Michael Smith has a comment to make about McGahee in sportscenter that night, then he should be the time and effort into the sitaution. He should be a good jouranlist. He can have any opinion he wants, he's certainly entited to it and gets paid for it, but his responsbilities and duties as an analysist should mean that he does so with some knowledge of what he's talking about.

 

I understand your point of view, but I think you are putting far too much stock into it. If Buffalo goes 11-5 next year, we will get national attention. People must remember that we have been bad-mediocore for the past 7 years.

[Bob in STL]

do you honestly think Trey Wingo, Stuart Scott, and Kenny Mayne watch game footage to study guys like Gandy?

 

and for that matter do you think even John Clayton does??

 

No.

 

Trey Wingo was a local TV sportscaster here in St. Louis and he was the number 2 man at his network. He was #2 to a guy who opted out of sports totally and is now a news guy. Trey was just horrible. In a town serious about sports he was known more as a clown than as a serious sports guy. I has shocked to see him land a job at ESPN. He hasn't gotten any better.

[Alaska Darin]

when they (the fans on this board) probably know less about the individual player (or football in general) than the reporters do.

You've posted so many stupid things on this board, it's generally hard to pick which one takes the cake. Not anymore.

 

Thanks for that.

[Sketch Soland]

Of course you do. You're one of those fans they disagree with.

I understand your point of view, but I think you are putting far too much stock into it. If Buffalo goes 11-5 next year, we will get national attention. People must remember that we have been bad-mediocore for the past 7 years.

 

I very much agree. Winning will change lots of tunes. Positive media attention will naturally follow. It's just as easy for Bills fans to criticize the national media for bias or negative attention as it for the national media to criticize the Bills for not making the playoffs since the turn of the century.

[H2o]

I very much agree. Winning will change lots of tunes. Positive media attention will naturally follow. It's just as easy for Bills fans to criticize the national media for bias or negative attention as it for the national media to criticize the Bills for not making the playoffs since the turn of the century.

 

I agree totally. Look at how JP was getting trashed at every turn at the beginning of last season by everyone on TV (and alot of people on this board ). By the end of it, everyone on ESPN and NFL network were saying he was one of, if not the NFL's "most improved player" and people on the board were hailing him as our franchise QB. Success brings praise. Simple as that.

[daquix]

You've posted so many stupid things on this board, it's generally hard to pick which one takes the cake. Not anymore.

 

Thanks for that.

 

Of course you would think so. I was speaking about posters very much like you. You generally think that your opinion over-rules all and is the be all and end all. Its not.

 

 

I very much agree. Winning will change lots of tunes. Positive media attention will naturally follow. It's just as easy for Bills fans to criticize the national media for bias or negative attention as it for the national media to criticize the Bills for not making the playoffs since the turn of the century.

 

Thus why I try not to respond to threads that are complaining about us not getting national attention. Get over it. Once we start winning, consistently, the attention will follow.

[MDH]

You've posted so many stupid things on this board, it's generally hard to pick which one takes the cake. Not anymore.

 

Thanks for that.

 

 

So now you're defending the intelligence and knowledge of the fans on this board? Since when?

[Mike formerly from Florida]

Im not defending Gandy. But I will say that (as a former lineman), the lineman around you certainly can influence how you play. Whenever I had a bad guard to the left of me, I gave up more sacks/breakdowns due to the oncoming pressure.

 

As far as your last sentence goes. Does this mean you will stop watching the Bills if the line is just as bad this year?

 

Gandy had Peters and Fowler around him, certainly not weak players. It was Gandy that brought the line down along with the right side.

 

Dockery was considered the second best guard in FA, if you're not excited about his signing, I don't know what to say.

 

Of course, I would watch the Bills. It's an expression to voice my frustration with the last 10 years of poor line play.

 

 

 

As far as the Walker signing (to answer the other poster's question) I'm just hoping that Marv and McNally see something that others don't.

[The Big Cat]

He lost me right here

 

Lest we forget that JP referred to Gandy as the line's "leader" this past season...

[jri111]

Of course you do. You're one of those fans they disagree with.

I understand your point of view, but I think you are putting far too much stock into it. If Buffalo goes 11-5 next year, we will get national attention. People must remember that we have been bad-mediocore for the past 7 years.

 

 

This is what I like to call "selective reading." I never said that my problem with the national media was from lack of attention. I said I understood it. I expect it. Would I like more? sure, but I understand the economics behind it. I also said and I quote "I don't have thin skin, and I accept criticism of the Bills. they deserved it, they haven't been in the playoffs for almost 8 years now. They have to prove something on the field before they can be talked about positively. But I expect it to be educated criticism. I don't think that's much to ask for from a Network wholly dedicated to sports." So if you read that for what it is, I ACCEPT criticism of the Bills, what I don't accept is lack-luster reporting or opinions from ignorant people like Jeremy Green who just run their mouths when they should be providing analytic and educated reponses.

 

Of course if the Bills get better they'll have more coverage, that's a given. The problem is the quality of the analysis, not the quality of the Bills though!

[Bill from NYC]

Lest we forget that JP referred to Gandy as the line's "leader" this past season...

 

What else was he to say?

Pennington was a rookie RT. CV was half dead, and Preston was so bad they couldn't run to his side. Fowler was brand new to the team, and Peters only started for half the season.

If Gandy could play, he would still be on the roster. The fact that he took so long to find a job is indicicative of his poor performance.

 

This guy may be a "pro," but a 9 year old could turn on the TV and watch Gandy give up sacks. Imo, he doesn't watch the Bills all that often.

[jri111]

Of course you would think so. I was speaking about posters very much like you. You generally think that your opinion over-rules all and is the be all and end all. Its not.

 

 

And this is what I like to call hypocrisy. What makes your opinion any more cherished and valid then? Why are you right on this situation and everyone else that doesn't agree with you is wrong? You can't rip someone's opinion by saying that they believe that their opinion "over-rule all" and then go on to state your opinion about something in a condescending way, that's illogical and hypocritical. You have a right to your opinion, that's fine, but by replying to someone else's by merely calling it invalid is irrational.

 

...and as I said, it's not about having different opinions as these guys, it's about their uneducated and ignorant opinions and participating in "head-line" reporting from a hieracrical stoop such as ESPN

[daquix]

Gandy had Peters and Fowler around him, certainly not weak players. It was Gandy that brought the line down along with the right side.

 

Dockery was considered the second best guard in FA, if you're not excited about his signing, I don't know what to say.

 

Of course, I would watch the Bills. It's an expression to voice my frustration with the last 10 years of poor line play.

As far as the Walker signing (to answer the other poster's question) I'm just hoping that Marv and McNally see something that others don't.

 

I hope beyond all that I am proven 100% wrong and the Bills line rocks our world this upcoming season. I hope I take tons of criticism for telling people not to be too optimistic. I would rather be wrong than right, in this circumstance. But I don't see how one player on the line (Gandy), was considered bad, and the other 4 were considered strong, and our line was still horrid. Could not pass protect and could not run block. I am excited about Dockery! I only wonder why a team like the Redskins who have no problem shoveling out money to good players, wouldn't resign him nor why no other team offered him a contract along with the Bills. But yes, I am excited about Dockery.

 

This is what I like to call "selective reading." I never said that my problem with the national media was from lack of attention. I said I understood it. I expect it. Would I like more? sure, but I understand the economics behind it. I also said and I quote "I don't have thin skin, and I accept criticism of the Bills. they deserved it, they haven't been in the playoffs for almost 8 years now. They have to prove something on the field before they can be talked about positively. But I expect it to be educated criticism. I don't think that's much to ask for from a Network wholly dedicated to sports." So if you read that for what it is, I ACCEPT criticism of the Bills, what I don't accept is lack-luster reporting or opinions from ignorant people like Jeremy Green who just run their mouths when they should be providing analytic and educated reponses.

 

Of course if the Bills get better they'll have more coverage, that's a given. The problem is the quality of the analysis, not the quality of the Bills though!

 

That frustration behind my post was not only to you, but to a bunch of posters on this board that over the past 4 years have complained about little or bad reporting on the Bills. I apologize that I let that frustration come off as a personal directive towards you.

 

And this is what I like to call hypocrisy. What makes your opinion any more cherished and valid then? Why are you right on this situation and everyone else that doesn't agree with you is wrong? You can't rip someone's opinion by saying that they believe that their opinion "over-rule all" and then go on to state your opinion about something in a condescending way, that's illogical and hypocritical. You have a right to your opinion, that's fine, but by replying to someone else's by merely calling it invalid is irrational.

 

...and as I said, it's not about having different opinions as these guys, it's about their uneducated and ignorant opinions and participating in "head-line" reporting from a hieracrical stoop such as ESPN

 

I see that you have only been a member of this board for about a year now. Because of this you probably do not have a full grasp of how Alaska_Darin likes to word his posts over the years. That post was directly towards him.

[Alaska Darin]

Of course you would think so. I was speaking about posters very much like you. You generally think that your opinion over-rules all and is the be all and end all. Its not.

Very much like me? But not me? Oh please, great duhquixote, put me directly in with the others. I can take it.

 

Dude, you must have the life experience of a gnat. I've actually had the chance to meet a number of the very people you apparently worship for their "knowledge". Like about everything else, about 10% of the people really know their stuff and everyone else is either a moron or doing just enough to get along. One guy, who worked on a show that "breaks down game film" didn't know 3 major free agents who'd signed with our team over an offseason not so long ago. That was a whole week before TRAINING CAMP (but he was an excellent hunter, so I gave him a pass).

 

To think they spend a ton of time breaking down actual "game film" of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in so long is simply ludicrous. All you have to do is watch an NFL game and spot the number of times the color "analyst" completely misses the reason a play is either successful or a failure, only to analyze the "shiny flashy" part of it. It's a ridiculously high number and those guys have an encyclopedia of football knowledge compared to John Clayton, etc.

[daquix]

Very much like me? But not me? Oh please, great duhquixote, put me directly in with the others. I can take it.

 

“If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.” - Elbert Hubbard

 

Dude, you must have the life experience of a gnat. I've actually had the chance to meet a number of the very people you apparently worship for their "knowledge". Like about everything else, about 10% of the people really know their stuff and everyone else is either a moron or doing just enough to get along. One guy, who worked on a show that "breaks down game film" didn't know 3 major free agents who'd signed with our team over an offseason not so long ago. That was a whole week before TRAINING CAMP (but he was an excellent hunter, so I gave him a pass).

 

To think they spend a ton of time breaking down actual "game film" of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in so long is simply ludicrous. All you have to do is watch an NFL game and spot the number of times the color "analyst" completely misses the reason a play is either successful or a failure, only to analyze the "shiny flashy" part of it. It's a ridiculously high number and those guys have an encyclopedia of football knowledge compared to John Clayton, etc.

 

Of course not all reporters are going to know more than the fans do. I never said that. I inferred that most of the reporters probably know more of the individual player than the fans do. If we knew as much, then why do we watch ESPN? Think about it. Shows like PTI and others would not be on the air without an audience watching to see what they think about a certain subject. There was once an entire show where analysts would breakdown the game film of certain games on the NFL network. None-the-less, my main point about this topic is that fans of any particular team is going to be blinded to certain criticisms due to the fact that they are a hardcore fan.