The Falcons are the #8 pick and are looking to draft a S.

[ganesh]

If we had not taken Whitner when we did and DET had taken him at #9 the risk we would have taken was that either we trade down to lets say #12 and instead take the 3rd SS taken (Jason Allen was taken at #16 by the Fins and he played in a back-up role all season) as our starting safety, or alternately we end up going with the best SS on our current roster which was none other than gulp Coy Wire.

 

My guess is that you would likely take a completely different approach than the Bills have taken to team building due to your commitment to drafting and resigning OL players (it all started with their decision to trade for RJ instead of drafting Tre Thomas) or perhaps last year you would have traded up from 8 somehow to select D'Brick and them pulled off some other Rickey Williams esque draft maneuver to get Mangold as well.

 

However, the risk of not getting Whitner when we did after the reality that we created a hole at SS with the cut of Milloy was that if we lost him we were looking at likely having Jason Allen or Coy Wire as our starting SS. We would have lost that bet badly and wished we had finished 7-9 as we did IMHO.

 

I don't think the bills would have forced themselves to take a safety if they had missed out on Huff and Whitner. I am sure they would have gone and picked Bunkley with that 13th pick from Denver. And I am sure they would have gone after a SS in rounder 2/3 especially when they had the extra pick, they wouldn't have Wire starting at SS.

 

The draft is all about knowing your priorities and sticking with your board and not panicking. If the bills felt strongly about Whitner, I have no problem with that pick and if they really were not sold on Whitner and were up to getting extra picks from the Broncos that would have been fine too.

[The Dean]

While I didn't know much about Donte (not sure why) I REALLY liked Jimmy Williams, last year. Atlanta head coach, Petrino (in Albany, GA?) recently announced Williams will start at CB this year.

 

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-94007s...dp-sports-local

 

I still think he may end up being the best DB taken in the 2006 draft.

[OCinBuffalo]

A large risk of what? Of a team with suckass lines on both sides of the ball not being able to select a small safety in a stocked draft?

 

PG, you know how much I respect both you and your posts, or so I hope after all these years, but you DO need to take your head out of Levy's a$$ for just 5 minutes, and at least explore the possibility that Whitner was not the only way to go in the 06 draft.

I respect you as well Bill, but in this case it is you who needs the head-from-ass removal. Whitner was a great pick - all the evidence is there already and it's undeniable(um never mind the stats - how about Rookie of the Month, playing in Buffalo = no small feat). You weren't right about this because the guys you wanted us to take have ended up so far as: =, or worse, or much worse, than Whitner. Of course, this all will be clearer after this year and a lot can still change. But, with Milloy and Vincent either gone or on the way out, and, with Clements only around for one more year, we had to do something about the defensive backfield, which we did.

 

In hindsight, these draft picks have worked out great, again, undeniable; and have allowed us to focus on other areas. Primarily they allowed us to use all our FA $ on OFFENSIVE LINEMAN. Which accomplishes your goal, as well as giving us a strong D backfield for years to come. Look, now we have 2 and 3 decent players competing for each of only 2 "open" positions on the O line. When is the last time we have had that? Plus it gives us depth. IF we had drafted lineman last year, we would be rolling the dice on ALL our skill positions this year in the draft = stupid. That is not a plan, that is a crapshoot, and, Wire would be one of our starting safeties right now. The only thing positive about your draft plan last year is that we would probably be picking at #2-4 in this year's draft.

[Tipster19]

That reminds me, what does this indicates about Milloy? If Atlanta drafts Landry, where does Milloy fit in? All the more it looks like Marv was right on time with Whitner.

[BoondckCL]

BTW, it took me about 12 times before I spelled "criticized" correctly...and a few for "took", too...

 

Beer is good, Dean. But not right after noon on a work day.

[JAMIEBUF12]

i pray they take a safety at#8 because the atlanta falcons are the only real threat to the bills to draft adrian peterson

[Tipster19]

All the more it looks like Marv was right on time with Whitner.

 

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/...mat=&page=1

 

Another reason why I'm not nervous about our current situation and what Marv will do in the draft. Our old senile GM sure does have a good idea on what's happening in today's game.

[obie_wan]

If we had not taken Whitner when we did and DET had taken him at #9 the risk we would have taken was that either we trade down to lets say #12 and instead take the 3rd SS taken (Jason Allen was taken at #16 by the Fins and he played in a back-up role all season) as our starting safety, or alternately we end up going with the best SS on our current roster which was none other than gulp Coy Wire.

 

My guess is that you would likely take a completely different approach than the Bills have taken to team building due to your commitment to drafting and resigning OL players (it all started with their decision to trade for RJ instead of drafting Tre Thomas) or perhaps last year you would have traded up from 8 somehow to select D'Brick and them pulled off some other Rickey Williams esque draft maneuver to get Mangold as well.

 

However, the risk of not getting Whitner when we did after the reality that we created a hole at SS with the cut of Milloy was that if we lost him we were looking at likely having Jason Allen or Coy Wire as our starting SS. We would have lost that bet badly and wished we had finished 7-9 as we did IMHO.

 

Jason Allen sucks as a S and has now been moved to CB by Miami.

[The Dean]

Beer is good, Dean. But not right after noon on a work day.

 

 

Boony, why the hate? I just noticed your post today.

 

If you look, you'll see my original post was at 12:51 AM. AM as in, 12:51 in the morning, after midnight, etc.

 

Not that I'm adverse to a couple of noon balloons, mind you.

[Dawgg]

Perhaps, but it is you who needs head-from-Marv's-ass removal.

 

The Falcons will not get crucified for picking Laron Landry in the top 10 simply because they don't have the sheer number of holes that the Bills had coming into the draft. The Bills were razor thin at defensive line, very old at LB, and and had a hole at strong safety, though they had already signed Bowen. Picking a safety at #8 was not smart.

 

Couple that with the fact that it was a deep draft, they were offerd to move down for additional picks, and they turned it down to take a "solid" player at number 8 only to pay him like a potential star.

 

 

I respect you as well Bill, but in this case it is you who needs the head-from-ass removal.

[Dawgg]

This is the most confounding line of "logic" that supporters of this move make.

 

The assertion that Bills would have taken on risk by moving down and acquiring more picks is assenine. SO WHAT IF DETROIT TOOK WHITNER??? This was an extremely deep draft and there were plenty of impactful defensive prospects available in the middle of the first round, perhaps not safeties.

 

By sticking at #8 drafting Whitner, the Bills had to guarantee Whitner $13M. Trading down to #15, the Bills could have picked a solid prospect like Mangold, Davin Joseph, Tamba Hali, or Bobby Carpenter for half the price. That hardly qualifies as "more" risk. Picking up an additional secound rounder makes it a slam dunk, given how barren the roster is.

 

 

 

 

The Bills had no choice but to take Whitner with the #8 or they might likely lose him to the very next pick making a trade down a bad idea. The fact that Detroit did indeed take a safety with their second pick shows that we would have been taking a large risk by trading down for more picks.

[Dawgg]

Milloy played very well last year and he's going to start.

 

It was Chris Crocker that got beat on a regular basis... Landry would be starting alongside Milloy.

 

That reminds me, what does this indicates about Milloy? If Atlanta drafts Landry, where does Milloy fit in? All the more it looks like Marv was right on time with Whitner.

[KOKBILLS]

I'm sure that nobody around here forgot the national heat that Marv took when he drafted Whitner at the #8 spot. It looks like the Falcons are going to take S LaRon Landry with their first pick. If they do, what do you think the draft gurus will think about Atlanta's selection of a Safety with the #8 pick?

 

The experts will applaud IF The Falcons get Landry at #8...Mike Mayock says Landry is the 2nd best pure Football Player in this Draft after WR Calvin Johnson...Some will say that Landry is a steal at #8...

[BillsVet]

Why are there so many Marv/DJ apologists out there?

 

Whitner's selection was a reach. And I still believe other NFL teams did an end run and faked Buffalo out on draft day. By feigning interest in Whitner, they got Buffalo to take a guy who wasn't going before 15.

 

We've said it time and time before...your team gets noticeably better with OL and DL as a strength. We chose a safety and JP was running for his life and our DLine couldn't stop Aunt Jemima from running through it.

 

Safeties may no longer be a dime a dozen...but priorities dictate you draft guys on the LOS first. Maybe Buffalo intends on having Whitner start at SLB this season. The fact remains, we paid more, literally and figuratively for a guy who wasn't a top-10 selection.

 

Besides, having a high draft pick isn't what it used to be. These guys are going to get a large paycheck without having played a down. 1st round picks are a gamble in many instances, and paying that sort of money to someone without NFL experience is not as ideal in 2007 like it was in 1987. They're a huge investment and the reason why I haven't noticed anyone trade into the top-10 in a while.

[The Dean]

Why are there so many Marv/DJ apologists out there?

 

Whitner's selection was a reach. And I still believe other NFL teams did an end run and faked Buffalo out on draft day. By feigning interest in Whitner, they got Buffalo to take a guy who wasn't going before 15.

We've said it time and time before...your team gets noticeably better with OL and DL as a strength. We chose a safety and JP was running for his life and our DLine couldn't stop Aunt Jemima from running through it.

 

Safeties may no longer be a dime a dozen...but priorities dictate you draft guys on the LOS first. Maybe Buffalo intends on having Whitner start at SLB this season. The fact remains, we paid more, literally and figuratively for a guy who wasn't a top-10 selection.

 

Besides, having a high draft pick isn't what it used to be. These guys are going to get a large paycheck without having played a down. 1st round picks are a gamble in many instances, and paying that sort of money to someone without NFL experience is not as ideal in 2007 like it was in 1987. They're a huge investment and the reason why I haven't noticed anyone trade into the top-10 in a while.

 

 

Yeah, right. That "rookie" GM, Marv got fooled by all of those really crafty and experienced GMs. If that wasn't so freaking laughably stupid, it would be offensive. You have absolutely NO information (but still believe) other teams faked Marv out and had no real interest in Whitner (even though Whitner confirms the interest). That's cool. Do you still believe the earth is flat? The sun goes around the earth?

 

I don't consider myself an apologist for ANYBODY. Bit, consider that:

 

In one year, Marv and his team have managed to almost completely turn around the base of a miserable 5-11 team in total disarray.

 

His first draft as GM was close-to GREAT (certainly an A- at worst).

 

In the past he lead the team to four straight SBs.

 

I don't know about you, but for now, I'm giving Marv the benefit of the doubt. I'm also not about to make baseless attacks (totally void of any real information) on his NFL intelligence.

[Tipster19]

I would take Marv Levy's intelligence and football knowledge over an overwhelming majority of NFL administrators. That's not an apology, that's a boast.

[BillsVet]

Yeah, right. That "rookie" GM, Marv got fooled by all of those really crafty and experienced GMs. If that wasn't so freaking laughably stupid, it would be offensive. You have absolutely NO information (but still believe) other teams faked Marv out and had no real interest in Whitner (even though Whitner confirms the interest). That's cool. Do you still believe the earth is flat? The sun goes around the earth?

 

I don't consider myself an apologist for ANYBODY. Bit, consider that:

 

In one year, Marv and his team have managed to almost completely turn around the base of a miserable 5-11 team in total disarray.

 

His first draft as GM was close-to GREAT (certainly an A- at worst).

 

In the past he lead the team to four straight SBs.

 

I don't know about you, but for now, I'm giving Marv the benefit of the doubt. I'm also not about to make baseless attacks (totally void of any real information) on his NFL intelligence.

 

Seriously...we've had this discussion before. Marv was a rookie GM last season. And he relied on the same guy (Modrak) who assisted your friend and pal Tommy Donahoe. The main difference was DJ was present. I'm sure the scouting department was similar in 06 as it was in 05.

 

Most people have no problem lampooning another team's picks after one season, but at the same time can term our guys to be excellent selections? Why the double standard, because as we all know, you can't judge a pick until they've completed three seasons in the leauge.

 

We can judge Jason Allen from MIA as a bust but rely on McCargo to be a difference maker at DT for Buffalo. Both have one year in the NFL under their belt, just that one plays for an arch-rival and another is our guy.

 

I find it laughable you can grade the draft after one season. I'm going to hold out until at least after this year. To grade our draft is certainly nieve and wreaks of homer-itis. I want those guys we selected last season to play as well as the next guy, but grading them after one season (or in the case of McCargo and Youboty about 4 games) is premature.

 

And by the way, the Earth isn't flat...Marv told me it's actually cylindrical. And the team certainly hasn't been turned around...we've got a long way to go before we're playoff worthy.

[BillsVet]

And for the record, I don't think Marv is an idiot. Anyone with an Ivy League education, Phi Beta Kappa, and his track record in the NFL would never be confused for unintelligent. He's an excellent and educated man who stands for good character, work ethic, and furthering one's intelligence. You simply cannot argue about that.

 

However, we're talking football smarts here. There are a host of guys out there who understood how football works without Marv's sterling track record. Coaching and GM duties are significantly different, and with the salary cap almost world's apart that 1991. Marv's HOF coaching credentials don't necessarily translate into being a great GM. That's why I believe he inordinately relies on DJ, Modrak, Guy, and Overdorf.

 

It's true Marv led this team to 4 Super Bowls...but that was 15 years ago. Football has changed a lot since he left the league and while he relies on people who have been in the league for the last few years, he's behind people like Polian, Pioli, Newsome, and others who haven't had a break in service.

 

And if you're going to criticize me for not having proof about the 2006 draft because I don't have facts, I'll do the same when it involves talking about their decision making process behind doors at OBD. We simply don't know, both you and I.

[The Dean]

Seriously...we've had this discussion before. Marv was a rookie GM last season. And he relied on the same guy (Modrak) who assisted your friend and pal Tommy Donahoe. The main difference was DJ was present. I'm sure the scouting department was similar in 06 as it was in 05.

 

Most people have no problem lampooning another team's picks after one season, but at the same time can term our guys to be excellent selections? Why the double standard, because as we all know, you can't judge a pick until they've completed three seasons in the leauge.

 

We can judge Jason Allen from MIA as a bust but rely on McCargo to be a difference maker at DT for Buffalo. Both have one year in the NFL under their belt, just that one plays for an arch-rival and another is our guy.

 

I find it laughable you can grade the draft after one season. I'm going to hold out until at least after this year. To grade our draft is certainly nieve and wreaks of homer-itis. I want those guys we selected last season to play as well as the next guy, but grading them after one season (or in the case of McCargo and Youboty about 4 games) is premature.

 

And by the way, the Earth isn't flat...Marv told me it's actually cylindrical. And the team certainly hasn't been turned around...we've got a long way to go before we're playoff worthy.

 

 

I agree it's too early to give the draft a FINAL grade. But, just like in school, grades are given throughout the "semester". I'd consider a preliminary grade after one year to be something along the lines of a quarter-term grade. So, far, last years draft is contributing to the team at a very high level.

 

I didn't realize we had decided Allen was a bust and McCargo was a difference maker (I never get the memos anymore). but, for what it's worth, McCargo seemed to be improving and contributing before he got injured. OTOH, Allen was healthy all year and never managed to break through (a VERY weak secondary) to become a starter. Still, he may end up being fine.

 

Giving preliminary draft grades is fine, as long as you qualify the grade, IMO. Giving draft grades right after the draft, before any have played a game in the NFL, is just a meaningless exercise.

 

One more thing, you have just confused me (that's not hard, I fairly easily confused). Let me see if I have this right: Marv is to blame for the reach on Whitner, but he doesn't get credit for a good draft. Do I have that right?

[Dawgg]

Do you believe that Whitner was the ONLY option in the first round for the Bills?

 

Apparently so...

 

We'll continue this debate at Northstar

 

Do you still believe the earth is flat? The sun goes around the earth?