el Tigre Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I don't think the Bills keep both of them. Which one is the better choice to keep? London is older but still playing at a high level. But he has Drew Rosenhaus for an agent. Could Spikes slide inside if Fletcher leaves? That would give us Crowell-Spikes-Ellison at LB. Could we find a suitable replacement for Nate? He's good,but I don't consider him a real shut-down corner. Should the Bills overpay him to stay? If you're Marv which one do you keep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Here's what will happen. Fletcher will stay until next year of the year after. We still need him to train Crowell some more and teach the new LBs that come in. Spikes will stay around for about 3 more years. I think he's got some more gas in the tank. Don't give up on him yet. Clements is very iffy. WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO HIM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jester43 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 If you're Marv which one do you keep? how many years in a row do we have to suck against the run until people see that fletcher is a liability? he was NEVER good enough...including when he played for the rams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 why would the Bills have to make a choice? salary cap wise, they could keep both. but, at the expense of which other positions. Â After QB, CB is the highest paid position. LB is somewhere below the middle of the pack. I don't see RW laying out the kind of cash it will take to re-sign Clements. We're talking a 5 or 6 year deal in the neighborhood of $40-45M at least, with $13M up front. On the other hand, Fletcher has been consistently the leading tackler and big playmaker for the team. His signing will probably only cost around $3-3.5M and a significantly less signing bonus. I think Ralph is more inclined to sign Fletcher than Clements. Â If the Bills let Clements go, they have players that could potentially step in... Kiwaukee Thomas, Jabari Greer, and Youboty... who they drafted to eventually be a stater. Â There is no one other than DiGiorgio that has any experience at MLB to step in for Fletcher. Crowell and Spikes could be potential starters there, but, both of these guys have question marks at their own positions because of injuries. So, one way or another the Bills will have to bring in someone to play MLB... will it be Fletcher, or someone else, and will the money spent be as good or better a value than now? Â I say Ralph re-ups Fletcher and passes on Clements. JP and McGahee will be in the last year of their contracts next season as well and Ralph has to look at that. On that front, I don't know about JP, but Ralph won't re-up Mcgahee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Clements - he's only 27 and has at least 5 good one's left. I think Fletcher owuld be a greta fit in Indy to make a run at another title... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills4bowl21 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 in my opinion ...get rid of them both .. nate really isnt a shut-down corner ...but maybe because there is no rush defense...in that case get a rush defense therfore they create bad throws that lead to mediocre CB's getting easy INT's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDH Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 in my opinion ...get rid of them both .. nate really isnt a shut-down corner ...but maybe because there is no rush defense...in that case get a rush defense therfore they create bad throws that lead to mediocre CB's getting easy INT's   Yeah, let him go. I'm REALLY hoping the Bills will be 30 million under the cap next year. At least we'll lead the league in something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPTheRealDeal07 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Nate is a shut down corner, granted he has his moments and bad games, but I have NFL ticket and I've seen a ton of Champ, McCalister and all these other "shut down" guys, and they get beat every now and then too, and have bad games. Our eyes are just so much more focused on Nate we find every little thing he does wrong. He's 27 and has his best football ahead of him, can't say the same for Fletcher, finding top notch CB's is alot harder than finding good backers' like London. You have to keep Clements, and I'd love to keep Fletcher as well but, it just doesn't make sense. We can find a replacement via FA or the draft, theres no way we're finding somebody as good as Nate to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stl Bills Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 how many years in a row do we have to suck against the run until people see that fletcher is a liability? he was NEVER good enough...including when he played for the rams. Are you serious? I think that would be a total of two years. Hmmm....how long ago did we let Pat Williams leave, I forget. What team is by far and away number one against the run this year? Could it be Minnesota? Fletcher is as much a liability as Tim Anderson is an up and coming future Probowler. The problem with stopping the run starts with the DT position. I love this sh-- about how Fletcher can't shed blocks; he might not shed them as easy as say someone like Merriman or Urlacher but he can get off blocks better than most LBs in this league. And he shouldn't have to deal with a lineman in his face on everyplay, just some plays. I wouldn't mind drafting a LB with a first day pick this year but the problem against the run starts up front, period. Untill thats addressed there is absolutely no merit to what you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT/Fordham Bills Fan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Yea I'm kind of torn about Fletcher. Sure he has 138 or whatever tackles and 96 solo, but most of them are 5 yards downfield or more. Yet, to defend fletcher, he doesn't have stud big defensive tackles like Ray lewis or Urlacher either. He is getting old but he didn't show any signs of slowing down this year. I tried to find the stats on his tackles for loss but couldn't (could anybody find em). He is the leader of the defense with spikes which is why I would overall keep him and get a big d tackle to take up some blockers. Â Any other opinions gents...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Nate is a shut down corner, granted he has his moments and bad games, but I have NFL ticket and I've seen a ton of Champ, McCalister and all these other "shut down" guys, and they get beat every now and then too, and have bad games. Our eyes are just so much more focused on Nate we find every little thing he does wrong. He's 27 and has his best football ahead of him, can't say the same for Fletcher, finding top notch CB's is alot harder than finding good backers' like London. You have to keep Clements, and I'd love to keep Fletcher as well but, it just doesn't make sense. We can find a replacement via FA or the draft, theres no way we're finding somebody as good as Nate to replace him. Â Nate is not the type of player you morgage the future on. If he were looking for a deal that's on par with his talent level, then fine sign him. But he clearly wants to be the HIGHEST paid CB in the league. Even you must know that he isn't. Nate makes a lot of big plays, but he also has a knack for being on the other end of big plays too. It's always feast or fathom with him. This is not a guy you throw that kind of coin at. He's really good, not in the GREAT category. This team will have no choice but to put Youboty in as the next young gun of the defense. If he doesn't cut it next season then you know the Bills 1st round pick in '08 will be a CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 They way things are looking right now, the Skins and 49ers are going to throw a boat load of money NC's way and Nate's agent already said there will be no contract discussions til after the season, meaning they are going to test the market. Unfortunately this looks bad for Buffalo since Nate was pretty upset about the franchise tag last year, so its likely that Buffalo would really have to overpay to keep him in a Bills uniform. Â So, we need to take a shot a NC, but if we can't get him back, we need to lock up Fletcher for the next 3-4 seasons and hope we can find a capable CB via FA or the draft on day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I would take Clements over Fletcher any day. Clements has started playing good because he has learned the system and I don't want to was another half a season making another CB learn the system. An added bonus is Clements can play another 10 years and Fletcher can play for a couple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Are you serious? I think that would be a total of two years. Hmmm....how long ago did we let Pat Williams leave, I forget. What team is by far and away number one against the run this year? Could it be Minnesota? Fletcher is as much a liability as Tim Anderson is an up and coming future Probowler. Â Actually, they couldn't stop the run when Williams and Fletcher were here either until they picked up Sam Adams. Remember the game when Ricky Williams put up about 245 yards on those guys? It was like that all season. They were awful, and Fletcher was manhandled. Fletcher is a liability in run defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Nate is not the type of player you morgage the future on. If he were looking for a deal that's on par with his talent level, then fine sign him. But he clearly wants to be the HIGHEST paid CB in the league. Even you must know that he isn't. Â He might not be the best CB in the league, but he's really good, he makes big plays, he's young, he's durable and he's a free agent. Sometimes you have to pay the market price for your players, other times you get lucky and sign them relatively cheap, like Schobel and Jason Peters. Without Nate neutralizing guys like Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison the second half of this season would have been really ugly. If you want a glimpse of our pass defense without Nate, check out the Chicago and Detroit games just prior to the bye when the Bills were keeping Nate on one side instead of rolling him over to the opponents best receiver. Then compare that to games like Houston and Indy, where Nate lined up against Andre Johnson and Marvin Harrison and held them down and was a huge part of keeping those offenses out of the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyBillsFan Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 you keep both, thats how you build/rebuild a team......... Ask the Ravens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills Fan888 Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 you keep both, thats how you build/rebuild a team......... Ask the Ravens... Thats what we need to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 If the Bills let Clements go, they have players that could potentially step in... Kiwaukee Thomas, Jabari Greer, and Youboty... Â That list is the equivalent of trying to replace Pat Williams with an injury prone Ron Edwards and Tim Anderson. Thomas and Greer are only capable of covering the opponents 3rd or 4th receivers, move them up in class and it gets ugly. McGee is not a good corner in the cover 2, he needs to be returning kicks and playing the role that Thomas and Greer are playing now. It's a shame how much playing zone has taken away from McGee's game. Youboty should be the guy that they are grooming to HOPEFULLY play OPPOSITE Clements. IMO, this team without Clements does not have a guy who could step in right now and be a TOP 2 corner in a good cover 2 defense, let alone a guy capable of being a #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 I don't think the Bills keep both of them. Which one is the better choice to keep? London is older but still playing at a high level. But he has Drew Rosenhaus for an agent. Could Spikes slide inside if Fletcher leaves? That would give us Crowell-Spikes-Ellison at LB. Could we find a suitable replacement for Nate? He's good,but I don't consider him a real shut-down corner. Should the Bills overpay him to stay? If you're Marv which one do you keep? I could care less who Fletcher's agent is. To me it's obvious you keep Nate, as for one he is younger and a far better player at his position then Fletcher is at is. Not only that but our depth at CB is considerably weaker then it as at LB. I haven't studied free agent LBs in great detail but one name someone else brought up is Kawicka Mitchell. Also the draft has some strong options in either Patrick Willis or Buster Davis if looking for someone in Round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfaningeneseo Posted December 28, 2006 Share Posted December 28, 2006 I unfortunately feel we are going to lose out in the bidding war for NC. That being said, if it is anywhere near a reasonable price, I think we absolutely have to take a shot at keeping him. If the price is crazy (which is what it is shaping up to be), I think we are better off keeping Fletcher at a decent price, and spending the money we would have spent on NC on a vet. CB and upgrade the DT or DE position. It has been said many times that a great defensive line will make a decent CB look great. I don't think we have that great DL, and thus we need better defensive backs. Upgrade the DL and the need (not the want) for an great CB goes down... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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