I wish JP had it like Eli in that he can just

[bluv]

I mean to all those who hate on JP and act like Eli is so much better, for the Giants games I've watched he is no better than JP and actually makes more dumb throws. But I know the JP haters will say yeah but he makes plays...of course he does when he has a 6-4 WR mismatch in that he can just throw the ball up to and hope he makes a play! How many times in forever have you ever remeber the Bills having a WR they could just throw the ball up to on a quick fade in the end zone and have him outjump a db? Or have one of the best RB's in the game who is a threat in both run and pass game. Better yet a power back who comes in and get the tough yardages on 3rd and short. Or even Dallas who when the refs allow it have TO who can push off and make tough catches (but drop easy ones occasionally). Or even an offensive coordinator who will use Lee Evans and/or Roscoe the way Carolina uses Steve Smith and put them in positions to make plays.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that this team has no playmakers whatsoever. No one to make the big catch or get the tough yard. And for the playmakers we MIGHT have who can make plays with the ball in their hands, they are not put in the best positions to make plays. Watch how when Romo came in he game, the playcalling changed and at least put him in the best position to make plays. While they weren't all good, he made a few plays as well playing being shabby blocking. We have won of the best scrambling QB's in the game and yet defenses treat him like Bledsoe for they know he is going to be set back there 97% of the time. There is no way that if more slants and crossing routes were called insted of just streaks and curls that defenses can constantly take away our speed at WR, especially if JP is rolled out more. Then if nobody is open he can just haul@ss and run instead of sitting back in the pocket holding the ball.

 

And BTW, I think Davis should be given a look to start opposite Lee as Price is not getting the job done, at least Davis has gotten open deep the past 2 games and just haven't been able to connect with JP. Price just isn't a threat and maybe Davis can be the spark this offense needs.

[RayFinkle]

I mean to all those who hate on JP and act like Eli is so much better, for the Giants games I've watched he is no better than JP and actually makes more dumb throws. But I know the JP haters will say yeah but he makes plays...of course he does when he has a 6-4 WR mismatch in that he can just throw the ball up to and hope he makes a play!

 

Okey Dokey.

[smokinandjokin]

I agree, it would be nice to have a playmaker at wideout. However, for a young QB, the "just throw it up there" play can evolve into a crutch that ultimately stunts their development, and manifests itself when they don't have that option.

 

See: Culpepper, Daunte

[marck]

Just to let you know in the upcomming draft we will have a chance at maybe a Calvin Johnson of Georgia Tech although if we draft at 10 he will probably be gone.

 

However Dwayne Jarret of USC should be their with the 10th pick.

[bluv]

I agree, it would be nice to have a playmaker at wideout.  However, for a young QB, the "just throw it up there" play can evolve into a crutch that ultimately stunts their development, and manifests itself when they don't have that option. 

 

See: Culpepper, Daunte

815665[/snapback]

True but at key situations defense would have a hard time singling up a big fast WR who can jump. I mean Plaxico has bailed Eli out a few times this year. We have had no big targets, at WR or TE to throw to at key moents. Definitely in the red zone big targets make a huge difference.

[daquixers_is_back]

Trade Clements and a 3rd rounder for Randy Moss ... I would take that.

[ajzepp]

That's one thing about Eli I've noticed this year....his long ball is NOTHING like his brother's. Burress has made some real nice catches, but Eli tends to throw ducks that just sit up there forever. JP clearly has a better arm.

 

I think it's clear that the Giants do have a much better team than we do, though....I definitely agree with that.

[bluv]

Trade Clements and a 3rd rounder for Randy Moss ... I would take that.

815703[/snapback]

I didn't want to mention Randy but if we added him I would have no problem with that as we need a playmaker regardless of his reputation. Randy might not be a Saint but he definitely isn't a TO!

[Bills Fan888]

I did a comparision of stats between JP and Eli

JP 61.9% completed passes

Eli 62.9%

JP 1314yds passing

Eli 1518yds

JP 6tds

Eli 13tds

JP 6ints

Eli 8ints

JP 78.9 rating

Eli 90.7

 

 

JP is doing pretty well compared to a QB on a much better team and is a number 1 pick

[ajzepp]

I did a comparision of stats between JP and Eli

JP 61.9% completed passes

Eli 62.9%

JP 1314yds passing

Eli 1518yds

JP 6tds

Eli 13tds

JP 6ints

Eli 8ints

JP 78.9 rating

Eli 90.7

JP is doing pretty well compared to a QB on a much better team and is a number 1 pick

816014[/snapback]

 

Maybe if JP would just do a better job of holding onto the ball things would be different. TOs are maybe the most telling stat when it comes to wins and losses....he's gotta do a better job of not pulling bledsoes.

[Wacka]

Maybe if anyone could block on the line, JP wouldn't be hit.

[BillWalton]

I did a comparision of stats between JP and Eli

 

JP is doing pretty well compared to a QB on a much better team and is a number 1 pick

816014[/snapback]

JP was a first round pick and we gave up an additional 2nd and 5th for him.

[Wraith]

JP was a first round pick and we gave up an additional 2nd and 5th for him.

816072[/snapback]

 

....and that's Losman's fault how?

 

Eli Manning came at a pretty high price, too.

[BillWalton]

JP was a first round pick and we gave up an additional 2nd and 5th for him.

816072[/snapback]

....and that's Losman's fault how?

 

Eli Manning came at a pretty high price, too.

816090[/snapback]

The point is that QBs drafted in the 1st round are supposed to at least show signs of continued development in their first few seasons.

 

JP is making mistakes that would get QBs benched even down at the high school level (e.g., taking a 15 yard sack at the end of the 1st half against the Lions. And maybe even more disturbing, trying to throw a pass after being taken down to his knee on that play....which caused him to fumble, but luckily was bailed out by already being called down).

 

Has he ever once shown some signs of good game-clock management or field awareness? I'd love it if you could point out even one, because he looks completely lost on the field half the time.

[I 90]

JP is making mistakes that would get QBs benched even down at the high school level (e.g., taking

816112[/snapback]

 

As true as that is, it may be time to let J.P. be J.P.

 

His errors seem to flow from trying to be the quaterback who reads defenses , follows progressions, makes good choices.. he might not be that guy.

 

While I don't think he needs a tall reciever, he does need some football players who can get open when he gets on the move (and he better get on the move). Recievers like Evans should be better in space than DB's so why not take the risk. Let's see some of the Tulane from Losman, it did get him drafted.

[Dan]

Has he ever once shown some signs of good game-clock management or field awareness? I'd love it if you could point out even one, because he looks completely lost on the field half the time.

816112[/snapback]

 

Didn't he scramble for a touchdown late in the Jets game on 4th and 6 from the 12 yard line to pull us to within a score? I think that'd classify as field awareness. One example - good enough.

[ganesh]

JP is making mistakes that would get QBs benched even down at the high school level (e.g., taking a 15 yard sack at the end of the 1st half against the Lions. And maybe even more disturbing, trying to throw a pass after being taken down to his knee on that play....which caused him to fumble, but luckily was bailed out by already being called down).

 

816112[/snapback]

 

THat has to be one of the funny quotes of the year.....DId you see Rex Grossman the darling of the media throw 4 INTs and 2 Fumbles in ONE Game against the lowly Arizona cardinals ?

 

Did you see Steve McNair throw 4 Ints in the game against SD ? I am sure both Grossmand and McNair got benched for the following games.....

[Arkady Renko]

As true as that is, it may be time to let J.P. be J.P.

 

His errors seem to flow from trying to be the quaterback who reads defenses , follows progressions, makes good choices.. he might not be that guy.

 

While I don't think he needs a tall reciever, he does need some football players who can get open when he gets on the move (and he better get on the move). Recievers like Evans should be better in space than DB's so why not take the risk. Let's see some of the Tulane from Losman, it did get him drafted.

816122[/snapback]

 

Run the No-Huddle. Worth a shot.

[Tasker]

Just to let you know in the upcomming draft we will have a chance at maybe a Calvin Johnson of Georgia Tech although if we draft at 10 he will probably be gone.

 

However Dwayne Jarret of USC should be their with the 10th pick.

815674[/snapback]

 

Or, we could get a quality lineman with the pick? Maybe Evans, Price, Reed, and Roscoe can get the job done if we address the team's weakness? I don't view QB, LB, Safety, RB, WR, K, P, ST, or DE as areas we need to focus on. DT with Triplett underperforming McCargo out for the year would be area #2, and O-Line is priority #1. That said, I've always been a fan of taking the best football player available in most cases.

[BillWalton]

THat has to be one of the funny quotes of the year.....DId you see Rex Grossman the darling of the media throw 4 INTs and 2 Fumbles in ONE Game against the lowly Arizona cardinals ?

 

Did you see Steve McNair throw 4 Ints in the game against SD ? I am sure both Grossmand and McNair got benched for the following games.....

816236[/snapback]

McNair is a former league MVP who quarterbacked a team to the Super Bowl!

 

Grossman is still quarterbacking the highest scoring offense in the league and even has fewer career starts than JP (13 to 15)!

 

JP has accomplished...exactly what?

[Wacka]

Grossman has an O-line at least.

[Dibs]

McNair is a former league MVP who quarterbacked a team to the Super Bowl!

 

Grossman is still quarterbacking the highest scoring offense in the league and even has fewer career starts than JP (13 to 15)!

 

JP has accomplished...exactly what?

816294[/snapback]

But you said that JPs mistakes would get him benched at high school level....& you listed a couple of specific plays as examples.

ganesh pointed out that QBs who are more accomplished do not get benched for similarly bad playing......(therefore your statement is countered)

 

Your reponse back was...."JP hasn't accomplished anything."....which is true, but is not actually a counter to what ganesh said.

[ganesh]

McNair is a former league MVP who quarterbacked a team to the Super Bowl!

 

Grossman is still quarterbacking the highest scoring offense in the league and even has fewer career starts than JP (13 to 15)!

 

JP has accomplished...exactly what?

816294[/snapback]

 

So it is ok for you if other QBs can throw picks/fumbles but not JP.....What has

Grossman accomplished......13 and 15 makes a big difference...yeah right....

Grossman is playing behind a dominant OL and still laid those eggs and it is

ok for him to do that....It is ok because he has a dominating defense that can

score 21 points on its own in the 4th quarter to bail him out.....What was

Grossmans status in the pre-season....if you read the pre-season reports

people in Chicago wanted him to be benched......Nice try though....

[Willis990]

I mean to all those who hate on JP and act like Eli is so much better, for the Giants games I've watched he is no better than JP and actually makes more dumb throws. But I know the JP haters will say yeah but he makes plays...of course he does when he has a 6-4 WR mismatch in that he can just throw the ball up to and hope he makes a play! How many times in forever have you ever remeber the Bills having a WR they could just throw the ball up to on a quick fade in the end zone and have him outjump a db? Or have one of the best RB's in the game who is a threat in both run and pass game. Better yet a power back who comes in and get the tough yardages on 3rd and short. Or even Dallas who when the refs allow it have TO who can push off and make tough catches (but drop easy ones occasionally). Or even an offensive coordinator who will use Lee Evans and/or Roscoe the way Carolina uses Steve Smith and put them in positions to make plays.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that this team has no playmakers whatsoever. No one to make the big catch or get the tough yard. And for the playmakers we MIGHT have who can make plays with the ball in their hands, they are not put in the best positions to make plays. Watch how when Romo came in he game, the playcalling changed and at least put him in the best position to make plays. While they weren't all good, he made a few plays as well playing being shabby blocking. We have won of the best scrambling QB's in the game and yet defenses treat him like Bledsoe for they know he is going to be set back there 97% of the time. There is no way that if more slants and crossing routes were called insted of just streaks and curls that defenses can constantly take away our speed at WR, especially if JP is rolled out more. Then if nobody is open he can just haul@ss and run instead of sitting back in the pocket holding the ball.

 

And BTW, I think Davis should be given a look to start opposite Lee as Price is not getting the job done, at least Davis has gotten open deep the past 2 games and just haven't been able to connect with JP. Price just isn't a threat and maybe Davis can be the spark this offense needs.

815221[/snapback]

 

 

Eli was a #1 pick. JP was #22. That is a huge difference in talent. Can we please stop comparing JP to Eli, Rivers and Ben. He is not in their class and he never will be.

[bluv]

Eli was a #1 pick.  JP was #22.  That is a huge difference in talent.  Can we please stop comparing JP to Eli, Rivers and Ben.  He is not in their class and he never will be.

816641[/snapback]

I hope you were being sarcastic for if you look at Eli's first 16 starts and compare them to JP you'd see little difference. In fact JP might have the edge. If you compare JP's progression to a lot of great QB's you'd see similar progression. That's not saying that he is or will never be great.

[VABills]

On the original point, he had one last year, but they didn't play nice together. So one left.

[BillWalton]

So it is ok for you if other QBs can throw picks/fumbles but not JP.....What has

Grossman accomplished......13 and 15 makes a big difference...yeah right....

Grossman is playing behind a dominant OL and still laid those eggs and it is

ok for him to do that....It is ok because he has a dominating defense that can

score 21 points on its own in the 4th quarter to bail him out.....What was

Grossmans status in the pre-season....if you read the pre-season reports

people in Chicago wanted him to be benched......Nice try though....

816478[/snapback]

First of all, it's not so much the turnovers but how brutal they are. Or making just plain boneheaded plays.

 

Secondly, Chicago had virtually the same offense and defense last year. The offense had Mushin, Berrian, Jones, Benson and Desmond Clark last year too. Furthermore, their entire offensive line is the same, and they have the same head coach.

 

The main difference has been at quarterback.

 

Last year with Orton at QB they averaged 16 points and 256 yards per game. This year with Grossman at QB they are averaging 30 points and 325 yards per game.

 

Nice try though....

[ganesh]

First of all, it's not so much the turnovers but how brutal they are. Or making just plain boneheaded plays.

 

Secondly, Chicago had virtually the same offense and defense last year. The offense had Mushin, Berrian, Jones, Benson and Desmond Clark last year too. Furthermore, their entire offensive line is the same, and they have the same head coach.

 

The main difference has been at quarterback.

 

Last year with Orton at QB they averaged 16 points and 256 yards per game. This year with Grossman at QB they are averaging 30 points and 325 yards per game.

 

Nice try though....

816660[/snapback]

 

How convinient to simply ignore the fact that the Bears defense got the 21 points to get the win....Also, I don't think Grossman was successful last year when he came back and replaced Orton.....My main point goes back to the same thing...Grossman has NOT accomplished anything more than JP at this point of time....If you want to keep harping that Grossman cannot be held for throwing 4 picks and 2 fumbles, Keep Trying.....

[bluv]

First of all, it's not so much the turnovers but how brutal they are. Or making just plain boneheaded plays.

 

Secondly, Chicago had virtually the same offense and defense last year. The offense had Mushin, Berrian, Jones, Benson and Desmond Clark last year too. Furthermore, their entire offensive line is the same, and they have the same head coach.

 

The main difference has been at quarterback.

 

Last year with Orton at QB they averaged 16 points and 256 yards per game. This year with Grossman at QB they are averaging 30 points and 325 yards per game.

 

Nice try though....

816660[/snapback]

Is Bill Walton your daddy for real? I guess I'll treat you like him and turn the volume down!

[BillWalton]

How convinient to simply ignore the fact that the Bears defense got the 21 points to get the win....Also, I don't think Grossman was successful last year when he came back and replaced Orton.....My main point goes back to the same thing...Grossman has NOT accomplished anything more than JP at this point of time....If you want to keep harping that Grossman cannot be held for throwing 4 picks and 2 fumbles, Keep Trying.....

816687[/snapback]

I didn't even mention the Arizona game. I said that the Bears are averaging 14 more points and 70 more yards per game this year with only 1 new starter on the entire team (The FS)! The only other difference is Grossman at QB instead of Orton. The fact that he is worth that much to the offense is what he has proved.

[BillWalton]

Didn't he scramble for a touchdown late in the Jets game on 4th and 6 from the 12 yard line to pull us to within a score?  I think that'd classify as field awareness.  One example - good enough.

816127[/snapback]

And then he followed it up brilliantly by operating the worst 2-minute drill (if you can call it that) in NFL history.