Dan Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 It's plain and simple... this team is bad in every way. One player either way is not going to put us over the top. With that being said, anyone can leave and we won't be losing much. If Clements wants to stay a Bill, he better be willing to take a significant pay cut. Because putting that much money in one CB is a bad move when we need to sign an entirely new offensive and defnesive line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 Most CB's who make plays have a decent defense around them. Find me a playmaker CB who has a bad defense around him. 812866[/snapback] So then, what is the worth of signing NC and thereby not being able to afford a better surrounding cast so he can be worth what he's paid? B/c let's face it, there are a lot of holes on this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 So then, what is the worth of signing NC and thereby not being able to afford a better surrounding cast so he can be worth what he's paid? B/c let's face it, there are a lot of holes on this team. 812885[/snapback] Stop making sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdelma Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 We certainly have a ton of other problems, but Im sorry guys, these last two games should show us that we really cant afford to lose Clements. Flame away. 812525[/snapback] Oh yes we can, Doesn't deserved what 7 Million next year. This guy never makes plays only for a late backside tackles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 22, 2006 Author Share Posted October 22, 2006 It's plain and simple... this team is bad in every way. One player either way is not going to put us over the top. With that being said, anyone can leave and we won't be losing much. If Clements wants to stay a Bill, he better be willing to take a significant pay cut. Because putting that much money in one CB is a bad move when we need to sign an entirely new offensive and defnesive line. 812884[/snapback] There is no one to sign ... why dont people get that? So then, what is the worth of signing NC and thereby not being able to afford a better surrounding cast so he can be worth what he's paid? B/c let's face it, there are a lot of holes on this team. 812885[/snapback] Here is the #1 problem. THERE IS NO-WHERE TO SIGN THIS ENTIRE NEW SUPPORTING CAST! People dont seem to get this. There will be maybe 1 or 2 good FA's available. Period. We also will have close to 30 MILLION in free space. We could EASILY sign Clements and sign whoever else you want. Stop making sense. 812887[/snapback] Shouldny you be making plans to move the Bills or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 There is no one to sign ... why dont people get that? Here is the #1 problem. THERE IS NO-WHERE TO SIGN THIS ENTIRE NEW SUPPORTING CAST! People dont seem to get this. There will be maybe 1 or 2 good FA's available. Period. We also will have close to 30 MILLION in free space. We could EASILY sign Clements and sign whoever else you want. 812898[/snapback] Well, I'm going to put a bullet right to the heart of the issue. What makes your argument moot is: Does Nate want to be back here next year? Marv has said he will not use the FT on him again, meaning UFA. It is up to NC where he will go. If he wanted to stay in Buffalo, the time for him to make a deal was last offseason. Instead, he passed up on long-term security and risks getting $0 if he's injured this year. Guys forgo all this when they plan on testing the waters either b/c they know they're not going get as much as they want, or they want to be somewhere else. Other teams will pony up b/c they'll have plenty of cap room too. It's not the team's choice. Nate will be gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 There is no one to sign ... why dont people get that?Here is the #1 problem. THERE IS NO-WHERE TO SIGN THIS ENTIRE NEW SUPPORTING CAST! People dont seem to get this. There will be maybe 1 or 2 good FA's available. Period. We also will have close to 30 MILLION in free space. We could EASILY sign Clements and sign whoever else you want. Shouldny you be making plans to move the Bills or something? 812898[/snapback] You're telling me that Clements is the best FA player in the entire NFL and that no one else is there to be hired that could help this team? That only by keeping Clements at whatever the cost, will we ever hope to improve? Please, you're dillusional. Look, I agree with you Nate is a good player and we should re-sign him if possible. But, the question is... at what price. Do you spend $7mill+ on 1 CB or do you take that money and spread it around on new linemen? If nate takes a pay cut, I'm all for it. If he still want top 5 money, he should be gone. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted October 22, 2006 Share Posted October 22, 2006 My view is this: I'd like to resign Nasty Nate but only at the #5-10 highest CB contract at the most. No way in hell do I resign him as the highest paid CB in the league. If that is the only way to resign him, I'd rather take my chances with Youboty, Greer or one of the #2 at CB's on the market. I agree there is nobody else but the highest paid CB in the league? NO WAY! Fix the damn lines!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 i have always said pay nate.........but we need to spend his money on the offensive line......i dont even care if its a player that we sign and have to give our#1 pick as compensation...we need a stud left tackle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 My view is this: I'd like to resign Nasty Nate but only at the #5-10 highest CB contract at the most. No way in hell do I resign him as the highest paid CB in the league. If that is the only way to resign him, I'd rather take my chances with Youboty, Greer or one of the #2 at CB's on the market. I agree there is nobody else but the highest paid CB in the league? NO WAY! Fix the damn lines!!!!!! 812946[/snapback] Why dont people understand? THEIR IS NO ONE TO FIX THE LINES WITH! The FA's this year do not have quality lineman. Holy crap. Understand that people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Why dont people understand? THEIR IS NO ONE TO FIX THE LINES WITH! The FA's this year do not have quality lineman. Holy crap. Understand that people. 813358[/snapback] So, let's see. There's no one who can play CB. There's no OLmen. We have to keep playing JP in '07 b/c no one will be available. Wow. There will be NO UFAs, no surprise salary cap cuts, and no one is going to declare for the NFL Draft? OK, now we're screwed. Timmy the Ticket Boy is irreplaceable, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Why dont people understand? THEIR IS NO ONE TO FIX THE LINES WITH! The FA's this year do not have quality lineman. Holy crap. Understand that people. 813358[/snapback] Jordan Black, Dwayne Carswell, Derrick Dockery, Ryan Lilja, Eric Steinbach, Floyd Womack, Todd Steussie all suck then eh? So, let's see. There's no one who can play CB. Nope. Nick Harper and Asante Samuel suck. There's no OLmen. Except for the ones I posted above, who Daquix likes to just label as crappy. We have to keep playing JP in '07 b/c no one will be available. Matt Schaub and Chris Simms aren't available in free agency this offseason apparently! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 We certainly have a ton of other problems, but Im sorry guys, these last two games should show us that we really cant afford to lose Clements. Flame away. 812525[/snapback] I agree that I think Clements is a good player and someone that would be good to keep, but I think that Clements is going to another team as soon as this season ends. Unless we make a deal for him soon he'll be the number one guy in free agency for the teams that need a cornerback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Jordan Black, Dwayne Carswell, Derrick Dockery, Ryan Lilja, Eric Steinbach, Floyd Womack, Todd Steussie all suck then eh? 813394[/snapback] The Bills will only be able to sign 10 players to our roster and we will only have 1 guy manning the snow cart! There's NO ONE AVAILABLE!! Haven't you heard?!!? DOOOOOOOMED!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 We certainly have a ton of other problems, but Im sorry guys, these last two games should show us that we really cant afford to lose Clements. Flame away. 812525[/snapback] I agree that McGee has disappointed as a CB and failed to live up to my expectations and hopes that he would be our #1 CB, However, McGee's failings do not mean at all that Clements is good and though he is performing better than last year so far, he has not performed at a level this year and certainly last that justifies the Pro level CB contract he appeared to deserve two years ago and which the market would have given him prior to last season or even before this one. Like Jennings, Clements can probably be find one team that will be willing to take a risk on him and give him one the higher CB contracts in the league. However, despite the fact (IMHO) that MC is markedly better than McGee, this is different that concluding that he deserves a top 5 CB contract, because if a team has the right match-up he can be picked on and is not a virtually guaranteed shut down corner. If FA availability and the market says we can get a run stopping DT or a solid rushing LDE to go with Schobel with the money we would pay to keep NC, I say let Clements go and buy a cheaper solid but not great CB and continue to train and increase the work of Youbouty. McGee is worth the extension he received for his KR prowess and to be a #2 CB, but recognizing this does not necessarily mean you pay Franchise level # fpr Clements if SF or some other team is willing to set the market at that level for NC. A consistent and solid pass rush would do a lot more for stopping the pass than spending all our bucks on NC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 1. Clements will not be back. The Bills agreed to not franchise him this offseason (why? I have no idea). We will not be able to franchise him and then trade him. 2. He should have been re-signed. The Bills did not use all of their cap space this year and will have a lot next year. Signing Nate would have had almost no impact on the Bills' ability to sign other available free agents, even top free agents. 3. Nate will be one of the top free agents in the offseason. Any decent replacement via free agency will be very expensive. Fletcher should be popular as well. We will receive no compensation for either player, other than possibly some low round compensatory picks, assuming we do not sign equivalent free agents. 4. It is doubtful that the Bills will be able to sign a top free agent LT, DT or CB. I think there will be few available and I don't think the Bills will be a particularly attractive destination. 5. We will need to find a top LT in the draft. The problem is that we may be looking at filling needs at QB, DT, LB and CB as well. We will have more holes going into this offseason than last season. 6. I think it will be hard to find improvements over Clements and Fletcher. They should have been re-signed, assuming they were interested in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 Jordan Black, Dwayne Carswell, Derrick Dockery, Ryan Lilja, Eric Steinbach, Floyd Womack, Todd Steussie all suck then eh? Except for the ones I posted above, who Daquix likes to just label as crappy. Matt Schaub and Chris Simms aren't available in free agency this offseason apparently! 813394[/snapback] Are you joking? Jordan Black is a backup Dwayne Carswell? I dont even see him on the FA list Derrick Dockery ... most likely signed before Free Agency Ryan Lilja ... RESTRICTED Free Agent. Bills probably wont touch him. Eric Steinbach ... most likely signed before Free Agency. If he is not we will have to outbid many other teams for his services Floyd Womack ... I honestly dont know much about him but he seems to be injured often as he has only started 15 games out of the past 4 seasons. Yeah thats someone I want. Someone who will give me 3-4 games a season. Todd Steussie ... I would love to have had Todd. 5 years ago that is. Lets face it. He is going to be in his 14th season next year, reaching near what? 36 or 37 years old? He has only started 10 games in the past 3 years. Not to be rude but your list is garbage. QUALITY lineman are re-signed and those who are not get swapped up QUICKLY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in San Diego Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Ya, I think we can lose him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daquixers_is_back Posted October 23, 2006 Author Share Posted October 23, 2006 1. Clements will not be back. The Bills agreed to not franchise him this offseason (why? I have no idea). We will not be able to franchise him and then trade him. 2. He should have been re-signed. The Bills did not use all of their cap space this year and will have a lot next year. Signing Nate would have had almost no impact on the Bills' ability to sign other available free agents, even top free agents. 3. Nate will be one of the top free agents in the offseason. Any decent replacement via free agency will be very expensive. Fletcher should be popular as well. We will receive no compensation for either player, other than possibly some low round compensatory picks, assuming we do not sign equivalent free agents. 4. It is doubtful that the Bills will be able to sign a top free agent LT, DT or CB. I think there will be few available and I don't think the Bills will be a particularly attractive destination. 5. We will need to find a top LT in the draft. The problem is that we may be looking at filling needs at QB, DT, LB and CB as well. We will have more holes going into this offseason than last season. 6. I think it will be hard to find improvements over Clements and Fletcher. They should have been re-signed, assuming they were interested in doing so. 813428[/snapback] Did they sign a contract saying they wouldnt franchise him again? If not, then we can franchise him again if we want. If we can talk Nate down to a 4 year, 25 million dollar contract I would definately go with that. It will give him about 6 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Did they sign a contract saying they wouldnt franchise him again? If not, then we can franchise him again if we want. If we can talk Nate down to a 4 year, 25 million dollar contract I would definately go with that. It will give him about 6 million a year. 813440[/snapback] IIRC, that was written into his one-year contract. Not that tagging him again is a realistic option, given the new CBA. Any player tagged two years in a row will receive a contract that is the avg of the top 10 salaries in the league. That's more than $10M, and is prohibitive for this team. I don't know why you're continuing down this path. Clements will NOT be talked down in his salary demands. Last I heard, he wants ~$8M/year with a $12-15M SB. Everything he and his agent have done and everything the Bills front office has done points to him being gone next year, with this year as a stopgap while the rookies get experience. He will be testing the waters, so you'd better get prepared to lose him on the first or second day of FA. Stop living in your dream world where Marv has any leverage and $6M will be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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