Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Right...but nobody thought Starr was a quality quarterback when Lombardi was "stuck" with him when he came to Green Bay. As to Bledsoe...he made the pro bowl and just about made the playoffs last year after being "destroyed". The only coaches who didn't do well with him consistently were none other than GW and MM. I'm not saying we'd necessarily be better off if we kept him (although one could easily make that argument.) but I am saying that our downfall had nothing to do with him and everything to do with horrible coaching and a nightmare GM. 799965[/snapback] Whats Drew's record against winning teams? How many playoff games has Drew led his team to since 2000? How many years did it take New England to become a Super Bowl winner with Brady? How many Fumbles has Drew lost since 2000? How many oputunities did Drew have to win yesterday? If you answer any of these questions with.... He led New England to the Super Bowl in the second half against Pittsburgh, or He almost made the playoffs, or the offensive line sucks, or he just needs Blank...well join the club. New England, Buffalo, and Dallas all said the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 First try and disprove what I'm saying with facts if you disagree with it. Second You don't find it the least bit intresting/coincidental that nearly every good or great head coach has had a good or great QB? That teams magically go from winner to losers right when the QB is changed or breaks threw? That an overwhelming amount of coaches are fired, without ever getting good QB play? The NFL has far more examples of great QB's that made bad or average coaches great, then great coaches who made bad or average QB's great. It's a fact, not scapegoating. I'll be happy to run off a list, since I can think off about 25 examples off my head, of defensive type HC's that were losers for years, until a QB came in a changed things. Obviously a Defensive coach would have zero impact on that. 799976[/snapback] Ask yourself what makes a good/great QB. Do you think it might have something to do with coaching? How about the offensive line, running game and receivers? I guess I'm heavily influenced by Joe Gibbs winning 3 SBs with 3 different QBs, none of whom were great. What they did have were great offensive lines and great running games. Your use of statistics is a shallow attempt to shift the scapegoating but amounts to nothing more than scapegoating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Whats Drew's record against winning teams? How many playoff games has Drew led his team to since 2000? How many years did it take New England to become a Super Bowl winner with Brady? How many Fumbles has Drew lost since 2000? How many oputunities did Drew have to win yesterday? 799979[/snapback] Why use 2000 as some line of demarcation? Because if you don't your attempt to scapegoat DB falls apart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Whats Drew's record against winning teams? How many playoff games has Drew led his team to since 2000? How many years did it take New England to become a Super Bowl winner with Brady? How many Fumbles has Drew lost since 2000? How many oputunities did Drew have to win yesterday? If you answer any of these questions with.... He led New England to the Super Bowl in the second half against Pittsburgh, or He almost made the playoffs, or the offensive line sucks, or he just needs Blank...well join the club. New England, Buffalo, and Dallas all said the same thing. 799979[/snapback] hey..the guy led the patriots to the superbowl the year he was hurt. He made the pro bowl as a Bill. Parcells believes in him, right now. He led the Cowboys to 9 victories last year and may do the same this year. He may not be Canton material yet, but he's still a good quarterback...better than anyone we've had since Jim Kelly. He certainly isn't in any way to blame for the downfall of the Bills. The blame is all on MM, GW and TD. And of course RW for hiring and putting up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Ask yourself what makes a good/great QB. Do you think it might have something to do with coaching? How about the offensive line, running game and receivers? I guess I'm heavily influenced by Joe Gibbs winning 3 SBs with 3 different QBs, none of whom were great. What they did have were great offensive lines and great running games. Your use of statistics is a shallow attempt to shift the scapegoating but amounts to nothing more than scapegoating. 799980[/snapback] I don't need to look up the Washingtons INT/TD ratio when Gibbs was around because I know that it was atleast greater then 1.5 in 2 of the SB teams, and probably better in all three. I never said a Coach can't influence QB's and the rest of the team to play better. But how do you explain the dozens of examples in which a team sucks, has a defensive minded coach, then all of sudden turns into a power with nothing but a new QB? Or a coach has had great succuss then all of sudden they suck with a diffrent QB? Your making it as cut and dry as me saying bad QB = bad coach. All I ever said was coaches struggle badly without good QB play. That if you never see a good QB while your coaching odd are you won't be coaching long. Only 14% of playoff teams have put together back to back appearences without a 1.5 raitio or higher. You can interpret that anyway you like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Why use 2000 as some line of demarcation? Because if you don't your attempt to scapegoat DB falls apart? 799984[/snapback] You know your right. I bet when Buffalo made the trade for Bledsoe the first thing they did was look for game film from 1993. Just to make the study even more relevant they also tried to sign Ben Coates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You can interpret that anyway you like. 799993[/snapback] That's why stats are for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 That's why stats are for losers. 800001[/snapback] Or Cool people with big Johnsons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I don't need to look up the Washingtons INT/TD ratio when Gibbs was around because I know that it was atleast greater then 1.5 in 2 of the SB teams, and probably better in all three. I never said a Coach can't influence QB's and the rest of the team to play better. But how do you explain the dozens of examples in which a team sucks, has a defensive minded coach, then all of sudden turns into a power with nothing but a new QB? Or a coach has had great succuss then all of sudden they suck with a diffrent QB? Your making it as cut and dry as me saying bad QB = bad coach. All I ever said was coaches struggle badly without good QB play. That if you never see a good QB while your coaching odd are you won't be coaching long. Only 14% of playoff teams have put together back to back appearences without a 1.5 raitio or higher. You can interpret that anyway you like. 799993[/snapback] So do you think that Hasselback, Dilfer, Rothlesberger, McNair, Warner, Johnson and Collins were primarily responsible for getting their teams to the superbowl? If having a great qb was all it takes, or even the main road to make the superbowl, how would you explain Marino being shut out all these years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I don't need to look up the Washingtons INT/TD ratio when Gibbs was around because I know that it was atleast greater then 1.5 in 2 of the SB teams, and probably better in all three. I never said a Coach can't influence QB's and the rest of the team to play better. But how do you explain the dozens of examples in which a team sucks, has a defensive minded coach, then all of sudden turns into a power with nothing but a new QB? Or a coach has had great succuss then all of sudden they suck with a diffrent QB? Your making it as cut and dry as me saying bad QB = bad coach. All I ever said was coaches struggle badly without good QB play. That if you never see a good QB while your coaching odd are you won't be coaching long. Only 14% of playoff teams have put together back to back appearences without a 1.5 raitio or higher. You can interpret that anyway you like. 799993[/snapback] You make it sound like QBs play in a vaccum. Their statistics are theirs alone and aren't affected by anything going on around them. You seem to be looking for a saviour in the form of a great QB. I think the biggest problems the Bills have had for years start at the offensive line. The poor play of the offensive line goes at least to bad personel decisions by the GM and perhaps to bad coaching. It isn't all the fault of the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You know your right. I bet when Buffalo made the trade for Bledsoe the first thing they did was look for game film from 1993. Just to make the study even more relevant they also tried to sign Ben Coates. 799998[/snapback] I think they looked over his entire career and determined that he had not lost anything, therefore he was worth trading for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 I think they looked over his entire career and determined that he had not lost anything, therefore he was worth trading for. 800012[/snapback] History sure looks like that worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 History sure looks like that worked out. 800015[/snapback] Would it have helped if they had put a decent offensive line in front of him? Or is it always the QBs fault? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 The Bills went 9-7 with Bledsoe at QB in the toughest division in football during Mularkey's rookie year.And he's a meathead! 799842[/snapback] And how did Drew look yesterday for the Cowboys? Pretty typical of himself I should say. Holding the ball too long in the pocket, fumbling, completely baffling interceptions, and oh CHOKING IN THE CLUTCH I think it's safe to say ol' Bledsoe's all but handed the job to Romo. Basically meaning he's washed up except for back-up duties if that's what he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Would it have helped if they had put a decent offensive line in front of him? Or is it always the QBs fault? 800021[/snapback] It's not Drew's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 So do you think that Hasselback, Dilfer, Rothlesberger, McNair, Warner, Johnson and Collins were primarily responsible for getting their teams to the superbowl? If having a great qb was all it takes, or even the main road to make the superbowl, how would you explain Marino being shut out all these years? 800007[/snapback] All of the QB's you mentioned had near career years, and a ton of support in those years. Again the point of this argument is not you can't be good, or have good years without a good QB. The evidence I provided actually showed you could. But it also showed it's damn near impossible to continue that success unless the QB stays above the 1.5 ratio. If he doesn't it very unlikely you reach the playoffs the next year. The evidence is overwhelming. The only guy on your list to buck the trend is Dilfers Ravens, who probably had one of the best defenses of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scraps Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 All of the QB's you mentioned had near career years, and a ton of support in those years. 800027[/snapback] I think your starting to see the light. Again the point of this argument is not you can't be good, or have good years without a good QB. The evidence I provided actually showed you could. But it also showed it's damn near impossible to continue that success unless the QB stays above the 1.5 ratio. If he doesn't it very unlikely you reach the playoffs the next year. The evidence is overwhelming. The only guy on your list to buck the trend is Dilfers Ravens, who probably had one of the best defenses of all time. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 You make it sound like QBs play in a vaccum. Their statistics are theirs alone and aren't affected by anything going on around them. You seem to be looking for a saviour in the form of a great QB. I think the biggest problems the Bills have had for years start at the offensive line. The poor play of the offensive line goes at least to bad personel decisions by the GM and perhaps to bad coaching. It isn't all the fault of the QB. 800010[/snapback] I'm looking for consistency in the organization. I'm looking for us to stick with Jauron even if things don't go well. Only one time since the playoff drought began has Buffalo went over the 1.5 ratio. Obviously the line, WR, RB, etc all play a role in that. I proved how hard it is for coaches to overcome bad QB play. Williams and Jauron (two defensive coaches) will have almost zero influence on that number. Yet if it doesn't improve, history has shown, and will continue to show that he will not be coaching here long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 I think your starting to see the light.Never mind. 800028[/snapback] If your opinion is the light, then I'll stay in the dark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 It's not Drew's fault. 800023[/snapback] Yeah, the OL is resposible for him throwing that ball 15 yards short of T.O. when there was no one around him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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