Question for the J.P.Losman haters

[Wraith]

And by the way, according to that, Lidell Betts is the best RB in the league.  Okay..... 

 

Yeah I would take him over Mcgahee, LT, Barber, Portis, Johnson, Parker, mccallister,  Lewis, droughns, etc..... 

 

NOT.

788740[/snapback]

 

No. It says his performance over the first three games of the season has been the best.

[JDG]

You have to understand that passing yards and complete percentanges are part of the QB rating formula. The stats you mentioned are already included in my comparison. In fact, QB rating considers more stats than merely passing yards and complete percentages.

 

Also, it's funny you ignored Losman's performance this year and only made your argument based on his stats last season.

788453[/snapback]

 

There's nothing funny about it. Since both Losman's and Brees' first 9 games came in their second years, I felt that was the fairest comparison.

 

If, however, one prefers upon using 12 games:

 

In Losman's first twelve games, he had *three* sub-100 yard passing days. Drew Brees had *zero* (although he came close in two).

 

In Losman's first nine games, he had *three* sub-50% completion days. Drew Brees had *zero*.

 

In other words, under this metric, the first nine games were actually *more favorable* to Losman than the first twelve games. Must have been my visceral anti-Losman hatred, huh?

 

As for your comment about QB Rating, perhaps you are someone who believes that a QB's performance over 9-12 games can be summed up in a single statistical number that uses arbitrary weighting factors for a combination of measures. Personally, even though I use stats a lot, I am not one of those persons.

 

This is a classic example of how a single aggregate average can completely obscure how one QB played far, far, better in his second year in the League than another QB did in his second year.

 

JDG

[syhuang]

It's fine. Just like baseball, some are sabermetrics supporters and some are not. When people are arguing on Jeter or Ortiz should be MVP, some can provide stats like VORP or win shares, others can only base on what they think.

 

However, you still need stats to back up your argument. First, you need make the numbers you showed right, Losman only has 3 fumbles in official score. Second, before I show you the stats, do you realize that 15 out of 32 NFL quarterbacks have at least 4 turnovers, including non-lost fumble?

 

 

I don't care what they are.  They are some guys interpretaion of the stats.  Stats can be changed to show anything you want.  I could probably come up with stats that proves Ed gives heads and really is a lesbian transvestite.  Is it true.  Probably, but that's not the point. 

 

The point is there is an area of concern that others have expressed.  Has nothing to do with his "stats".  Sometimes actually watching a game and not going to a "fantasy" stat sheet can do some much more for you.

788737[/snapback]

[VABills]

No. It says his performance over the first three games of the season has been the best.

788746[/snapback]

You actually believe that Betts performed the best of any running back in the league over the first 3 weeks?

 

That has got to be the most ignorant thing I have ever heard.

 

Did you actually watch the skins play. I did, beling the local market I watch them pretty much every week, as long as it doesn't interfere with the Bills game. Sorry but Portis outplayed Betts in the 2 games he played by far, Betts was only playing the Davis role to Thurman. That's like saying Davis was a better back than Thurman.

[VABills]

It's fine. Just like baseball, some are sabermetrics supports and some are not. When people are arguing on Jeter or Ortiz should be MVP, some can provide stats like VORP or win shares, others can only base on what they think.

 

However, you still need stats to back up your argument. First, you need make the numbers you showed right, Losman only has 3 fumbles in official score. Second, before I show you the stats, do you realize that 15 out of 32 NFL quarterbacks have at least 4 turnovers, including non-lost fumble?

788749[/snapback]

Who cares how many other QB's had. My statement was an "observation" than there is a concern about his ball handling ability. Do you understand the word "OBSERVATION"?

 

[syhuang]

Again, it's actually funny. You still manipulate the numbers by only using pass yards and complete percentage to compare quarterbacks while neglecting other stats. As I mentioned before, QB rating includes more stats than pass yards and complete percentage.

 

Speaking of QB rating, do you realize it is used commonly to summon quarterback performance over certain number of games? Just go to ESPN or NFL.COM, you'll find QB ratings of 3 games this year or QB rating of each quarterback last season.

 

And what weight factors are you talking about? Not including the QBs who started in their season? I believe I have mentioned that including these QBs who mostly had bad games as a rookies will only make Losman look good.

 

Or are you talking about "quality game" definition? I don't think you want to include the games when a young QB comes in to play a series or two when the starters need a breath.

 

 

There's nothing funny about it.  Since both Losman's and Brees' first 9 games came in their second years, I felt that was the fairest comparison.

 

If, however, one prefers upon using 12 games:

 

In Losman's first twelve games, he had *three* sub-100 yard passing days.  Drew Brees had *zero* (although he came close in two).

 

In Losman's first nine games, he had *three* sub-50% completion days.  Drew Brees had *zero*.

 

In other words, under this metric, the first nine games were actually *more favorable* to Losman than the first twelve games.  Must have been my visceral anti-Losman hatred, huh?

 

As for your comment about QB Rating, perhaps you are someone who believes that a QB's performance over 9-12 games can be summed up in a single statistical number that uses arbitrary weighting factors for a combination of measures.  Personally, even though I use stats a lot, I am not one of those persons.

 

This is a classic example of how a single aggregate average can completely obscure how one  QB played far, far, better in his second year in the League than another QB did in his second year.

 

JDG

788748[/snapback]

[syhuang]

Yes, I know what's oberservation and I know your observation is wrong. You consistently said Losman had 4 fumbles, but he actually had only 3 in official score.

 

Who cares how many other QB's had.  My statement was an "observation" than there is a concern about his ball handling ability.  Do you understand the word "OBSERVATION"? 

 

788751[/snapback]

[Pirate Angel]

Of course the Bills will be better with Brees at QB. Maybe even a playoff contender. JP Losman is still a year away. Just give him some time.

787009[/snapback]

 

 

 

amen

[Kelly the Dog]

There's nothing funny about it.  Since both Losman's and Brees' first 9 games came in their second years, I felt that was the fairest comparison.

 

If, however, one prefers upon using 12 games:

 

In Losman's first twelve games, he had *three* sub-100 yard passing days.  Drew Brees had *zero* (although he came close in two).

 

In Losman's first nine games, he had *three* sub-50% completion days.  Drew Brees had *zero*.

 

In other words, under this metric, the first nine games were actually *more favorable* to Losman than the first twelve games.  Must have been my visceral anti-Losman hatred, huh?

 

As for your comment about QB Rating, perhaps you are someone who believes that a QB's performance over 9-12 games can be summed up in a single statistical number that uses arbitrary weighting factors for a combination of measures.  Personally, even though I use stats a lot, I am not one of those persons.

 

This is a classic example of how a single aggregate average can completely obscure how one  QB played far, far, better in his second year in the League than another QB did in his second year.

 

JDG

788748[/snapback]

Afterwhich Brees immediately went into a tailspin for a year and a half, lost more games than he won, threw more INTs than TDs, he got booed at home, lambasted in the press, and his team drafted his replacement in the first round.

[VABills]

Afterwhich Brees immediately went into a tailspin for a year and a half, lost more games than he won, threw more INTs than TDs, he got booed at home, lambatsed in the press, and his team drafted his replacement in the first round.

788757[/snapback]

Who's now the second best QB in the league according to stats.

[syhuang]

Who's now the second best QB in the league according to stats. 

788758[/snapback]

Based on what? your observation?

 

Based on DPAR and DVOA, McNabb is second best QB and Brees is 13th.

[Alaska Darin]

Afterwhich Brees immediately went into a tailspin for a year and a half, lost more games than he won, threw more INTs than TDs, he got booed at home, lambasted in the press, and his team drafted his replacement in the first round.

788757[/snapback]

Talking to the furniture again, huh?

[VABills]

Based on what? your observations?

 

Based on DPAR and DVOA, McNabb is second best QB and Brees is 13th.

788760[/snapback]

Rivers.... and based on this:

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular

[John from Riverside]

Careful VA!  If you express too many concerns about Losman, your name will appear on the next idiot of the week poll.  After all, only an idiot would have any doubts whatsoever about Losman. 

788709[/snapback]

 

Excuse me....but that honor belongs to me with my comment yesterday about whether the vikes play in a dome.

[VABills]

Talking to the furniture again, huh?

788761[/snapback]

Not sure what Kellys doing, but I just found out that David carr is the best Qb in the league, and Lidell Betts is the best running back. Damn Marv could have had them, and they could have anchored our offense for the next 10 years.

[syhuang]

You're really funny, you bring up fumble issues and then show stats which do not include fumble.

 

You do realize DPAR and DVOA include fumbles in them, right?

 

Rivers....  and based on this:

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PRAT/2006/regular

788762[/snapback]

[Kelly the Dog]

Who's now the second best QB in the league according to stats. 

788758[/snapback]

Yep. Now he's pretty damn good. After his first 2-3 years, he was pretty darn average to lousy, not to mentioned that just under a third of his completions in those two years went to his exceptional receiving tailback. And they still wanted him run out of town. If Manning would have accepted to play in SD, or if Rivers hadn't held out. Brees may never have even seen the field much again.

[VABills]

Yep. Now he's pretty damn good. After his first 2-3 years, he was pretty darn average to lousy, not to mentioned that just under a third of his completions in those two years went to his exceptional receiving tailback. And they still wanted him run out of town. If Manning would have accepted to play in SD, or if Rivers hadn't held out. Brees may never have even seen the field much again.

788767[/snapback]

I was referring to Rivers. Hell Brees sucks. According to the stats he is behind Losman and only the 18th best QB in the league. SD did the right thing and kept Rivers. Of course he is only the second best QB.

[Kelly the Dog]

Talking to the furniture again, huh?

788761[/snapback]

Nope. I am saving the furniture for when I want to have a more vibrant, trenchant, interesting, adult, and satisfying discourse.

[JDG]

Afterwhich Brees immediately went into a tailspin for a year and a half, lost more games than he won, threw more INTs than TDs, he got booed at home, lambasted in the press, and his team drafted his replacement in the first round.

788757[/snapback]

 

Immediately?

 

While Brees did begin losing some games at the end of his first year as a starter, I'm not so sure that he was playing badly. For example, in one of those losses he threw for 320+ yards in 3TD's in a game they lost 31-28. In another game, he went 26 of 40 with 2TD's in a game they lost 24-22. This seems like a classic case of where the fans would just look at the scoreboard and knee-jerk blame the QB. Now, there may be arguments that Brees began playing poorly at this time, and I'd be open to hearing those, but on the surface, that does not appear to be the case to me.

 

In his 3rd year in the League, Brees did have a rough season. In fact, the whole Chargers team fell apart. I'd be very interested to delve deeper into that, as it really is looking like a true anamoly.... the year before the Chargers were very nearly a playoff team. The year after, the Chargers won the tough AFC West. Part of me wonders if Brees was fighting an undisclosed nagging injury that year, or if there was some serious David Boston negative karma hanging around. Certainly their defense had some issues.

 

What's really interesting is that Drew Brees essentially didn't play as a rookie, had a solid first year as a starter, and then had a bad year as a third year - a year that was nevertheless better than Losman's year last year. And so San Diego made the tough call the bring in a replacement at the position. The point is that football is a constant process of evaluation, and while you would always like to have perfect information when you make your decisions, you nevertheless have to make calls based on the best information available to you.

 

JDG