Apparently, not the smartest guys in the room

[Kelly the Dog]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/25/news/newsm...=cnn_topstories

[VABills]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/25/news/newsm...=cnn_topstories

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I guess it's good that Bush and his justice team came in to bring these guys to trial. If the previous admin had continued on these guys would still be stealing money from the middle class.

 

Hurrah for Bush and his protecting the common investor.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

WHERE'S THE BUSH COVERUP?!!?!?!

 

I thought George was going to protect his good friend Lay! Could it be that all those with half a brain who said there WAS NO CONNECTION between Bush and Enron were RIGHT?!?!

 

The shock! THE HORROR!!! Howard Dean was a liar?

 

I'm devastated, just destroyed.

 

[Chef Jim]

WHERE'S THE BUSH COVERUP?!!?!?!

 

I thought George was going to protect his good friend Lay! Could it be that all those with half a brain who said there WAS NO CONNECTION between Bush and Enron were RIGHT?!?!

 

The shock! THE HORROR!!! Howard Dean was a liar?

 

I'm devastated, just destroyed.

 

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Yeah, I'm waiting for Debbie to come along and say she was wrong about that. Uh-huh............

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yeah, I'm waiting for Debbie to come along and say she was wrong about that.  Uh-huh............

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Don't get the zamboni ready, hell ain't freezing over any time soon.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/25/news/newsm...=cnn_topstories

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I still marvel that ANYONE put their money anywhere NEAR these guys' trust after they said in their annual report, point blank: "We can't tell you how we make money, we'd be giving away a trade secret."

 

 

Yes, these guys are crooks - hell, that one statement pretty much proves it. And it's perfectly just that they'll rot in jail for the rest of their lives. But no one who was dumb enough to put ANY money in Enron should be blaming their hardship on these two.

[cromagnum]

With the opprutunity they have to remain free until sentencing, if I was them I flee.

[Chef Jim]

I still marvel that ANYONE put their money anywhere NEAR these guys' trust after they said in their annual report, point blank: "We can't tell you how we make money, we'd be giving away a trade secret." 

 

 

Yes, these guys are crooks - hell, that one statement pretty much proves it.  And it's perfectly just that they'll rot in jail for the rest of their lives.  But no one who was dumb enough to put ANY money in Enron should be blaming their hardship on these two.

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And I don't feel sorry for those who lost everything in their 401k. There were other options in there other than Eron stock. Nimrods.

[KD in CA]

And I don't feel sorry for those who lost everything in their 401k.  There were other options in there other than Eron stock.  Nimrods.

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Having worked in high flying tech companies before, I've seen how little people understand securities, markets and even the company they work for.

 

The problem is we have no formal education in this area in the US. How can it be that in a society based on capitalism we offer young people absolutely no education in this area? (yeah I know, the liberals who control education aren't about to do that and lose millions of votes). The reality is that if you didn't have intelligent parents to teach you, you are on your own for figuring this stuff out.

 

It is amazing (and frightening) how many people have their entire retirement wrapped up in the companies stock. As if the failure of the company and the resulting loss of your job isn't damaging enough?

[Chef Jim]

Having worked in high flying tech companies before, I've seen how little people understand securities, markets and even the company they work for.

 

The problem is we have no formal education in this area in the US.  How can it be that in a society based on capitalism we offer young people absolutely no education in this area?  (yeah I know, the liberals who control education aren't about to do that and lose millions of votes).  The reality is that if you didn't have intelligent parents to teach you, you are on your own for figuring this stuff out.

 

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Copout!!! I was taught how to balance a checkbook in high school and that was it. I had smart parents, my dad tought me that in life I needed two things, a good CPA and a good attorney. That's it, nothing more. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to realize that SS will not take care of you so therefore you need to do something else. The world is full of people like me willing to help teach you and get you set up....and yeah I get paid for it. But I just try to make a difference in people's lives. Jesus Christ, people with pay someone thousands of dollars to set up a home theater so they can get Idol in super Hi-Def surround sound bull crap but can't figure how to put a couple of thousand in an IRA.

 

Do you know what the savings rate in the US is? Negative .5%......NEGATIVE. But man, we drive real cool SUVs.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

And I don't feel sorry for those who lost everything in their 401k.  There were other options in there other than Eron stock.  Nimrods.

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Actually, Enron's 401k plan required (somehow) people to invest not only the employer match but their own contributions into Enron stock. That's one of the reasons senior management was able to liquidate their holdings at a high price: they were basically requiring the employees to prop up the stock.

 

Even so...a 401k contribution isn't required, either. It's usually a good idea, even without an employer match...but not when your employer requires you to invest in them.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

Having worked in high flying tech companies before, I've seen how little people understand securities, markets and even the company they work for.

 

The problem is we have no formal education in this area in the US.  How can it be that in a society based on capitalism we offer young people absolutely no education in this area?  (yeah I know, the liberals who control education aren't about to do that and lose millions of votes).  The reality is that if you didn't have intelligent parents to teach you, you are on your own for figuring this stuff out.

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So? I did. It's easy. Admittedly, I am a genius...but it's easy nonetheless.

 

Part of the problem is - no offense, Chef - that the financial industry pretty much has to sell people the idea that money management is difficult if they want to stay in business. If people sincerely started to realize how truly easy money management is, Chef Jim would have to go back to cooking...

[KD in CA]

Do you know what the savings rate in the US is?  Negative .5%......NEGATIVE.  But man, we drive real cool SUVs. 

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Exactly my point. Copout or not, it's reality. Most people in this country are completely ignorant of how to manage their financial situation. I learned how to balance a checkbook when I was ten years old too and can manage my own portfolio just fine, but that's just not the case for most of the people in this country. I ran the stock options program at two companies in the past and have seen how clueless people are on this stuff.

 

And the end result will be that we will have to pony up more in taxes to take care of these idiots because Congress will do whatever it takes to troll for those votes. I'd rather see some sort of financial education in public schools so these people won't make these Enron-type mistakes. Maybe we could fit it in the curriculum between "diversity week" and "gay studies".

 

Jesus Christ, people with pay someone thousands of dollars to set up a home theater so they can get Idol in super Hi-Def surround sound bull crap but can't figure how to put a couple of thousand in an IRA.

 

I heard Fabio paid big bucks to some guy to do that.

[/dev/null]

I'd rather see some sort of financial education in public schools so these people won't make these Enron-type mistakes.  Maybe we could fit it in the curriculum between "diversity week" and "gay studies".

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but if they taught people how to manage their own finances in school they wouldn't need the government to help them as adults, and the only thing worse for the government than intolerant citizens is self reliant citizens

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

but if they taught people how to manage their own finances in school they wouldn't need the government to help them as adults, and the only thing worse for the government Rand, Voltaire, etc...than intolerant citizens is self reliant citizens

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Bingo. The government has NO impetus to improve education because education is a stepping stone to subversion.

 

The old saying goes: "Reading is a subversive activity, ask any tyrant." Better to have 60+ million people vegetating to American Idol than reading books by Ayn Rand.

[GG]

So?  I did.  It's easy.  Admittedly, I am a genius...but it's easy nonetheless.

 

Part of the problem is - no offense, Chef  - that the financial industry pretty much has to sell people the idea that money management is difficult if they want to stay in business.  If people sincerely started to realize how truly easy money management is, Chef Jim would have to go back to cooking...

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Caveat - Managing money is easy. Managing investments is hard.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Caveat - Managing money is easy.  Managing investments is hard.

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It is?

 

GE, Coca-Cola, Microsoft, treasury bonds, cash reserve.

 

Need I say more?

[Chef Jim]

Actually, Enron's 401k plan required (somehow) people to invest not only the employer match but their own contributions into Enron stock.  That's one of the reasons senior management was able to liquidate their holdings at a high price: they were basically requiring the employees to prop up the stock.

 

Even so...a 401k contribution isn't required, either.  It's usually a good idea, even without an employer match...but not when your employer requires you to invest in them.

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I'm not so sure about that. Any proof they were required to put their own contributions in Enron stock? And if so did they have to leave it there? The match is a different story.....that's free money and a 100% return to the employee and even so I thought after a certain vesting period they were allowed to diversify into the other 401k investment options. As far as I know you can't force anyone to put there contributions anywhere. Sometimes I wish we could because there are people that are !@#$ing up their retirement with their 401k choices. The challenges with investing on greed and fear.

[Chef Jim]

Maybe we could fit it in the curriculum between "diversity week" and "gay studies".

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If only Warren Buffet was gay the whole problem would be solved.

[Crap Throwing Monkey]

I'm not so sure about that.  Any proof they were required to put their own contributions in Enron stock?  And if so did they have to leave it there?  The match is a different story.....that's free money and a 100% return to the employee and even so I thought after a certain vesting period they were allowed to diversify into the other 401k investment options.  As far as I know you can't force anyone to put there contributions anywhere.  Sometimes I wish we could because there are people that are !@#$ing up their retirement with their 401k choices.  The challenges with investing on greed and fear.

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It was widely reported...but I've never actually seen the original documentation on Enron's 401(k) program that said so.

 

I've also never seen anything that expressly forbids doing it. Sure, it's highly unusual, and it SHOULD be illegal...but according to everything I've ever seen (pre-Enron, since then, I have no exposure to 401(k)s outside managing mine and my wife's), it's perfectly permissible.