cale Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I haven't seen this guy play - but there has been some talk lately that this guy is just a space eater and not too quick. I am no expert - but doesn't knifing thru a special teams wall to block a kick and then running with with the ball qualify as pretty dang quick? Can someone elaborate on just why he wouldn't work in "our" new defensive scheme? ESPN's coverage on Haloti Ngata Thanks Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acantha Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 I haven't seen this guy play - but there has been some talk lately that this guy is just a space eater and not too quick. I am no expert - but doesn't knifing thru a special teams wall to block a kick and then running with with the ball qualify as pretty dang quick? Can someone elaborate on just why he wouldn't work in "our" new defensive scheme? ESPN's coverage on Haloti Ngata Thanks Charles 669247[/snapback] Because FSU plays on TV more than Oregan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBob2232 Posted April 24, 2006 Share Posted April 24, 2006 Alot of talk recently about him going to oakland. Which is interesting. And means that either Hawk, Mario, Brick may be available at #8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede316 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I'd rather have Ngata over Bunkley....and no way do Hawk or Mario last till #5 let alone #8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExWNYer Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Can someone elaborate on just why he wouldn't work in "our" new defensive scheme?669247[/snapback] Because he's a 2-gap tackle and the Bills will be employing a 1-gap scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoondckCL Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 One of the Bills' main problems last year was stopping the run, and we had Sam Adams. Haloti Ngata is Sam Adams Jr. Adams didn't do anything last year in terms of stopping the run so why would we want another Adams. Brodrick Bunkley on the other hand is a beast against the run, and he was doing it at FSU. So i don't think it is just because FSU is on TV more than Oregon in this part of the country. I've said it before and i'll say it again, the first problem with Ngata is that he didn't play every down when he was at Oregon and i don't think you use the eighth over all pick on a guy who doesn't play every down. In his career at Oregon, Ngata only had three sacks in his junior year. In a cover 2 you need your defensive lineman to penetrate and apply pressure in order to have success. 3 sacks is not going to cut it. He is said to be an unfinished product and needs to work on his effort that is given on every play. In the bowl game he played in this year he was dominated left and right against a second round pick. I just think that Bunkley is a better pick because he is not a project like Ngata. A guy like Bunkley will come in and make an impact immediately and we don't have to wait around hoping that our pick pans out like we did with Mike Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I've said it before and i'll say it again, the first problem with Ngata is that he didn't play every down when he was at Oregon and i don't think you use the eighth over all pick on a guy who doesn't play every down. 669556[/snapback] i think thats the real issue for #8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantankerous Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 One of the Bills' main problems last year was stopping the run, and we had Sam Adams. Haloti Ngata is Sam Adams Jr. Adams didn't do anything last year in terms of stopping the run so why would we want another Adams. Brodrick Bunkley on the other hand is a beast against the run, and he was doing it at FSU. So i don't think it is just because FSU is on TV more than Oregon in this part of the country. I've said it before and i'll say it again, the first problem with Ngata is that he didn't play every down when he was at Oregon and i don't think you use the eighth over all pick on a guy who doesn't play every down. In his career at Oregon, Ngata only had three sacks in his junior year. In a cover 2 you need your defensive lineman to penetrate and apply pressure in order to have success. 3 sacks is not going to cut it. He is said to be an unfinished product and needs to work on his effort that is given on every play. In the bowl game he played in this year he was dominated left and right against a second round pick. I just think that Bunkley is a better pick because he is not a project like Ngata. A guy like Bunkley will come in and make an impact immediately and we don't have to wait around hoping that our pick pans out like we did with Mike Williams. 669556[/snapback] So Ngata only had 3 sacks...*news flash* Getting pressure on the QB doesn't require a sack. Interior lineman aren't expected to get 10 sacks a year. Hence the term "pressure" And he's a special teams nightmare for opposing teams the way he can explode off the ball and penetrate to get at the kicker. You say Ngata is an "unfinished player" what makes you think Bunkley will be that much better? He'll make an immediate impact? How do you know that?! Personally I don't think we can really go wrong with either of these guys...but please...quit trying to say Bunkley is that much better because he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Ngata didn't play every down, but Bunckley did? If true, that changes things a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Can someone elaborate on just why he wouldn't work in "our" new defensive scheme? 669247[/snapback] I dont think he wouldn't work in "our" new defensive scheme, just that Bunkley would work better. http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/ins...remy&id=2419498 Outlook: Despite the fact that Buffalo is looking for more two-gap type defensive tackles, it is not inconceivable that the Bills could take Ngata, who is a one-gap run stuffer. New addition Tripplett is versatile enough to play either position. Ngata might not be as quick, agile or athletic as the Bills would like, but he is the best run-stuffing defensive tackle in this draft. The team also could look at Bunkley, who is more suited to the scheme, but he is more inconsistent and has more bust potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Because he's a 2-gap tackle and the Bills will be employing a 1-gap scheme. 669546[/snapback] This post actually demonstrates the flaw in making an assumption that s 1 gap college DT does not fit the D scheme the Bills run. Actually beyond a general statement from Jauron that we are going to abandon the zone blitz the entire Bills D was chosen for and run the past three years for a cover-2 which Jauron has run (and with some great episodic success in Chicago) THERE IS NO BILLS D SCHEME. Already we do know that Fewell is our DC and he both has a good working relationship eith Jauron and played a cover 2 variant in Jax. However, the key word here is VARIANT as Fewell's cover 2 was actually more of a cover 3 as their personnel produced better results with DBs dividing the downfield pass coverage into 3 parts rather than needing to cover half the field. Likewise, if the Bills variant of Jauron's cover 2 is so similar to the Chicago model and thus predictable it will likely be destroyed by OCs in this copycat league who simply would need to look at old Chicago films to find out how they beat the Jauron model. The Bills could easily develop and employ their version of the cover 2 that uses the DTs in away which is either heavily influenced by Fewell as DC or by Jauron changing up his traditional scheme to best put the Bills players in a position to make plays which utilizes the skill set of Triplett, Anderson, or Haloti, or Bunkley, or Grady Jackson (unless he resiged elsewhere and I missed it and he is not available. However, folks who simply assume that a particular player fits a D scheme they have not yet even seen developed may be right about things, but just as easily be wrong about this assumption as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 I haven't seen this guy play - but there has been some talk lately that this guy is just a space eater and not too quick. I am no expert - but doesn't knifing thru a special teams wall to block a kick and then running with with the ball qualify as pretty dang quick? Can someone elaborate on just why he wouldn't work in "our" new defensive scheme? ESPN's coverage on Haloti Ngata Thanks Charles 669247[/snapback] No one really knows what Marv and the coaching staff will do with that first pick. Those mock "experts" all over this country spin things the way they see fit. We'll see what will go down on Saturday. I have my favorites just like everybody on this board but I won't die or B word if my guys aren't picked. Ferguson or Huff, in that order. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick in RaChaCha Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 i think thats the real issue for #8 669559[/snapback] didn't his Mom pass away last year? Can't we cut him some slack, and say, "Gee this guy had a lot of things going through his mind" He loses his mother and he is what? 20 years old and we expect him to play at his top form every play of every game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinky finger Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 i think thats the real issue for #8 669559[/snapback] But, aren't the Texans looking to employ an EXTREMELY glorified 3rd down back with the 1st overall pick?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 One of the Bills' main problems last year was stopping the run, and we had Sam Adams. Haloti Ngata is Sam Adams Jr. Adams didn't do anything last year in terms of stopping the run so why would we want another Adams. Brodrick Bunkley on the other hand is a beast against the run, and he was doing it at FSU. So i don't think it is just because FSU is on TV more than Oregon in this part of the country. I've said it before and i'll say it again, the first problem with Ngata is that he didn't play every down when he was at Oregon and i don't think you use the eighth over all pick on a guy who doesn't play every down. In his career at Oregon, Ngata only had three sacks in his junior year. In a cover 2 you need your defensive lineman to penetrate and apply pressure in order to have success. 3 sacks is not going to cut it. He is said to be an unfinished product and needs to work on his effort that is given on every play. In the bowl game he played in this year he was dominated left and right against a second round pick. I just think that Bunkley is a better pick because he is not a project like Ngata. A guy like Bunkley will come in and make an impact immediately and we don't have to wait around hoping that our pick pans out like we did with Mike Williams. 669556[/snapback] Good post. This is where I seperate the two. I have the pleasure of watching Bunkley all year long and I have seen him on more than one occassion split a double team and tackle the running back 4 yards deep, that to me is what we need in our new scheme. I dont want a guy 340 lb. who will, as we all know will get comfortable and balloon to 370 lbs. No thanks I would rather have the everydown guy. And as far as Ngata blocking kicks, I believe Bunkley had 2 in his career but I will have to look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Alot of talk recently about him going to oakland. Which is interesting. And means that either Hawk, Mario, Brick may be available at #8. 669259[/snapback] If Super Mario lasts to #8, that'd be really ... interesting. Another sign of the imminent apocalypse, but good for Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Brodrick Bunkley on the other hand is a beast against the run, and he was doing it at FSU. 669556[/snapback] You must have missed Scott running up the gut of the 'Noles defense for over 100 yards in the Orange Bowl. Claims that Ngata can't play the run are simple blatant falsehoods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cale Posted April 25, 2006 Author Share Posted April 25, 2006 You must have missed Scott running up the gut of the 'Noles defense for over 100 yards in the Orange Bowl. Claims that Ngata can't play the run are simple blatant falsehoods. 669765[/snapback] Well, I don't want to get into all of that...I'm just stupified that someone (Ngata that is) with so much talent and natural ability can't be coached to excel in our system. Again, I have not seen him or Bunkley play - but all this talk of one gap or two gap tackles - I just don't get it. If he's a monster athlete and all indications are that he is - them why won't Ngata work? He's apparently quick for a big guy and intimidating. To add to that, I think his character is beyond reproach. Here are their profiles. It seems to me as far as strengths, weaknesses these guys are almost a wash. Add to that that Bunkley has a history of pretty serious injuries, I don't know...None of these guys are sure things - but if I were a betting man - Ngata has the better upside... Haloti Ngata Brodrick Bunkley Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Well, I don't want to get into all of that...I'm just stupified that someone (Ngata that is) with so much talent and natural ability can't be coached to excel in our system. Again, I have not seen him or Bunkley play - but all this talk of one gap or two gap tackles - I just don't get it. If he's a monster athlete and all indications are that he is - them why won't Ngata work? He's apparently quick for a big guy and intimidating. To add to that, I think his character is beyond reproach. Here are their profiles. It seems to me as far as strengths, weaknesses these guys are almost a wash. Add to that that Bunkley has a history of pretty serious injuries, I don't know...None of these guys are sure things - but if I were a betting man - Ngata has the better upside... Haloti Ngata Brodrick Bunkley Charles 669914[/snapback] I think you basically nailed it, Charles. I have seen both of these guys play and both are excellent players, neither is a sure thing, and either would be a nice addition to a team that is smoke thin at the DT position. I think you should stick to your own opinion and ignore the salesman trying to sell you all that Bunkley hype. I mean the fact they have to go out of their way to piss on some other player, a player that is generally acknowledged by experts as a 1st round talent, should tell you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 25, 2006 Share Posted April 25, 2006 Well, I don't want to get into all of that...I'm just stupified that someone (Ngata that is) with so much talent and natural ability can't be coached to excel in our system. Again, I have not seen him or Bunkley play - but all this talk of one gap or two gap tackles - I just don't get it. If he's a monster athlete and all indications are that he is - them why won't Ngata work? He's apparently quick for a big guy and intimidating. To add to that, I think his character is beyond reproach. Here are their profiles. It seems to me as far as strengths, weaknesses these guys are almost a wash. Add to that that Bunkley has a history of pretty serious injuries, I don't know...None of these guys are sure things - but if I were a betting man - Ngata has the better upside... Haloti Ngata Brodrick Bunkley Charles 669914[/snapback] The problem is that Ngata (as you said) would have to be coached to work in this position. I don't think you pick a guy at #8 that will have to be "coached" into a position. The other problems are the fact that people have said he only plays on 1st and 2nd downs, and has a reputation of taking some plays off. He may be a great athlete and a great DT, but MW was supposed to be a Great O-lineman and that didn't turn out to well for us. Maybe he will fit the Bills new defensive scheme, maybe he doesn't. Thats for the coaches and GM to decide and if the Bills draft him, I would not complain and would support their decission, if they pass on him and go with someone else, I won't spend the rest of the offseason crying cause they didn't go with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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