One more JP thread

[Bob in STL]

1. When JP was drafted many real football GMs and scouts liked him. Green Bay and the Rams especially liked him. Modark, Guy, and TD all liked him. Martz was really high on him as a prospect. I think they all might know more than most of us, and certainly more than some of these internet writers.

 

2. JP did not have a complete rookie season. The broken leg cost him reps and face time with the players and coaches.

 

3. JP worked VERY hard during the off season. He stayed in Buffalo almost year round and studied. Sam Wyche worked with him and invested a full year. Wyche is a QB guru, the stuff that Sammy taught JP may someday pay dividends.

 

4. JP should not have been handed the job. That was TD's fault. TD wanted to find the next Big Ben. TD's ego hurt the JP.

 

5. JP played good in most of the first quarters of most of his games, then deteriorated. Proving he could execute scripted plays, but he was not ready and could not process the defensive adjustments. Mularky, did little to help. His play calling was a joke. Trick plays, dumb calls, poor blocking, mental mistakes, a lack of talent on offense ... they all contributed to JPs problems.

 

6. The OL is woeful. Ask McGahee about it. Bledsoe was not much better than a rookie operating with this crew.

 

7. The veteran leadership was non-existent on the offense. Moulds was a big part of the problem. I will NEVER respect him for that Miami game. He is selfish.

 

8. Mularkey panicked and played Holcomb. Then he played musical QBs. Then he quit the Bills. Case closed on Mularkey. He was actually more of a rookie than JP.

 

9. JP needs another season or two to develop, most QBs need 3-5 years. He should have to win the job before he is judged. Give Fairchild, Van Pelt, and Jauron some time. JP has tools and he can lead.

 

10. This stuff about other players hating him is crap. I recall many vets talking him up last year during camp. Sucess will be the remedy. He should not play until they players see that he is their best shot. We don't know when that will be.

 

11. We have no one else. Nall is a longshot.

[Poeticlaw]

1.  When JP was drafted many real football GMs and scouts liked him.  Green Bay and the Rams especially liked him.  Modark, Guy, and TD all liked him.  Martz was really high on him as a prospect.  I think they all might know more than most of us, and certainly more than some of these internet writers. 

 

2.  JP did not have a complete rookie season.  The broken leg cost him reps and face time with the players and coaches. 

 

3.  JP worked VERY hard during the off season.  He stayed in Buffalo almost year round and studied.  Sam Wyche worked with him and invested a full year.  Wyche is a QB guru, the stuff that Sammy taught JP may someday pay dividends. 

 

4.  JP should not have been handed the job.  That was TD's fault.  TD wanted to find the next Big Ben.  TD's ego hurt the JP. 

 

5.  JP played good in most of the first quarters of most of his games, then deteriorated.  Proving he could execute scripted plays, but he was not ready and could not process the defensive adjustments.  Mularky, did little to help. His play calling was a joke.  Trick plays, dumb calls, poor blocking, mental mistakes, a lack of talent on offense ... they all contributed to JPs problems. 

 

6.  The OL is woeful.  Ask McGahee about it.  Bledsoe was not much better than a rookie operating with this crew. 

 

7.  The veteran leadership was non-existent on the offense.  Moulds was a big part of the problem.  I will NEVER respect him for that Miami game.  He is selfish. 

 

8.  Mularkey panicked and played Holcomb.  Then he played musical QBs.  Then he quit the Bills.  Case closed on Mularkey.  He was actually more of a rookie than JP. 

 

9.  JP needs another season or two to develop, most QBs need 3-5 years.  He should have to win the job before he is judged.  Give Fairchild, Van Pelt, and Jauron some time.  JP has tools and he can lead. 

 

10.  This stuff about other players hating him is crap.  I recall many vets talking him up last year during camp.  Sucess will be the remedy.  He should not play until they players see that he is their best shot.  We don't know when that will be. 

 

11.  We have no one else.  Nall is a longshot.

646404[/snapback]

 

 

I couldnt agree with you more

[Guest dog14787]

1.  When JP was drafted many real football GMs and scouts liked him.  Green Bay and the Rams especially liked him.  Modark, Guy, and TD all liked him.  Martz was really high on him as a prospect.  I think they all might know more than most of us, and certainly more than some of these internet writers. 

 

2.  JP did not have a complete rookie season.  The broken leg cost him reps and face time with the players and coaches. 

 

3.  JP worked VERY hard during the off season.  He stayed in Buffalo almost year round and studied.  Sam Wyche worked with him and invested a full year.  Wyche is a QB guru, the stuff that Sammy taught JP may someday pay dividends. 

 

4.  JP should not have been handed the job.  That was TD's fault.  TD wanted to find the next Big Ben.  TD's ego hurt the JP. 

 

5.  JP played good in most of the first quarters of most of his games, then deteriorated.  Proving he could execute scripted plays, but he was not ready and could not process the defensive adjustments.  Mularky, did little to help. His play calling was a joke.  Trick plays, dumb calls, poor blocking, mental mistakes, a lack of talent on offense ... they all contributed to JPs problems. 

 

6.  The OL is woeful.  Ask McGahee about it.  Bledsoe was not much better than a rookie operating with this crew. 

 

7.  The veteran leadership was non-existent on the offense.  Moulds was a big part of the problem.  I will NEVER respect him for that Miami game.  He is selfish. 

 

8.  Mularkey panicked and played Holcomb.  Then he played musical QBs.  Then he quit the Bills.  Case closed on Mularkey.  He was actually more of a rookie than JP. 

 

9.  JP needs another season or two to develop, most QBs need 3-5 years.  He should have to win the job before he is judged.  Give Fairchild, Van Pelt, and Jauron some time.  JP has tools and he can lead. 

 

10.  This stuff about other players hating him is crap.  I recall many vets talking him up last year during camp.  Sucess will be the remedy.  He should not play until they players see that he is their best shot.  We don't know when that will be. 

 

11.  We have no one else.  Nall is a longshot.

646404[/snapback]

 

I agree, He's a baby( experience wise) in a big mans world. BigBen had a very finely chiseled machine he was stepping into. Losman was handled very poorly by the previous Head coach. In Mularkeys defense, he was pushed to hard for sucess to be able to make the right decisions . It could have stemmed from the fact that some coaches may have thought J.P. was ready for a sophisticated offense enough to release Bledsoe. You just can't take a rookie QB and get sure fire success. It was one of them, your darned if you do, and darned if you don't. The fact that Losman was pulled to save this season was a very tough choice to make. Yes I know hes a 2nd year player but hes still a rookie in my mind.

[JAMIEBUF12]

I couldnt agree with you more

646415[/snapback]

like you said

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

5.  JP played good in most of the first quarters of most of his games, then deteriorated.  Proving he could execute scripted plays, but he was not ready and could not process the defensive adjustments.  Mularky, did little to help. His play calling was a joke.  Trick plays, dumb calls, poor blocking, mental mistakes, a lack of talent on offense ... they all contributed to JPs problems. 

646404[/snapback]

 

Not only that--but I would chalk up at least three of his games as being pretty good outings: Texans opener, KC game, and at Miami. For a guy who struggled, people forget he only played 7 games, 3 of which weren't all that bad. It's only the bad stuff we like to remember.

 

I don't buy the trade talk. Unless we get a 1st rounder for him, it makes no sense.

[Tcali]

1.  When JP was drafted many real football GMs and scouts liked him.  Green Bay and the Rams especially liked him.  Modark, Guy, and TD all liked him.  Martz was really high on him as a prospect.  I think they all might know more than most of us, and certainly more than some of these internet writers. 

 

2.  JP did not have a complete rookie season.  The broken leg cost him reps and face time with the players and coaches. 

 

3.  JP worked VERY hard during the off season.  He stayed in Buffalo almost year round and studied.  Sam Wyche worked with him and invested a full year.  Wyche is a QB guru, the stuff that Sammy taught JP may someday pay dividends. 

 

4.  JP should not have been handed the job.  That was TD's fault.  TD wanted to find the next Big Ben.  TD's ego hurt the JP. 

 

5.  JP played good in most of the first quarters of most of his games, then deteriorated.  Proving he could execute scripted plays, but he was not ready and could not process the defensive adjustments.  Mularky, did little to help. His play calling was a joke.  Trick plays, dumb calls, poor blocking, mental mistakes, a lack of talent on offense ... they all contributed to JPs problems. 

 

6.  The OL is woeful.  Ask McGahee about it.  Bledsoe was not much better than a rookie operating with this crew. 

 

7.  The veteran leadership was non-existent on the offense.  Moulds was a big part of the problem.  I will NEVER respect him for that Miami game.  He is selfish. 

 

8.  Mularkey panicked and played Holcomb.  Then he played musical QBs.  Then he quit the Bills.  Case closed on Mularkey.  He was actually more of a rookie than JP. 

 

9.  JP needs another season or two to develop, most QBs need 3-5 years.  He should have to win the job before he is judged.  Give Fairchild, Van Pelt, and Jauron some time.  JP has tools and he can lead. 

 

10.  This stuff about other players hating him is crap.  I recall many vets talking him up last year during camp.  Sucess will be the remedy.  He should not play until they players see that he is their best shot.  We don't know when that will be. 

 

11.  We have no one else.  Nall is a longshot.

646404[/snapback]

Excellent post StL Bob...-only thing i can think of is that thereis something the public hasnt seen--or that levy sees that tells him in his gut that this guy will be a flop.-I tend to think he is being given up on waaaaaaaay too soon if in fact the rumors are true.

[Bob in STL]

Excellent post StL Bob...-only thing i can think of is that thereis something the public hasnt seen--or that levy sees that tells him in his gut that this guy will be a flop.-I tend to think he is being given up on waaaaaaaay too soon if in fact the rumors are true.

646430[/snapback]

 

There is always the behind the scenes stuff. Mould's issues with JP are not hidden but they seem to be driven by a EMs insecurity.

 

I don't buy th eeverybody hates him theory. Marv is going to fill this team with younger players. JP will have more peers. Some of the veteran issues will be gone.

 

The biggest problem with the Bills is lack of leadership and character on game day. TD talked about being mentaly tough. The veterans, especially on offense, lack this trait.

[stang21]

There are unconfirmed rumors that the Bills are looking to dump JP, may try to trade up to a higher first round draft pick, and may try to get Vince Young

[Bob in STL]

There are unconfirmed rumors that the Bills are looking to dump JP, may try to trade up to a higher first round draft pick, and may try to get Vince Young

646561[/snapback]

 

 

There are unconfirmed rumors that the Bills are going to build a new, modern stadium in downtown Buffalo. This will occur at the same time they develop the waterfront with 100 new stores, night clubs, and restaurants. Then they will put in the worlds largest aquarium, tie it into the marina, bring back cable cars to take you anywhere downtown for 1$. At the same time they will construct a new Signature Peace Bridge complete with a park. Finally they reclaim some of the lakefront and add public beaches, shops, condos, etc.

 

After that Microsoft, Boeing, and Texas Instruments (renamed Buffalo Instruments) will move their operation in and everyone will have a great job.

[RuntheDamnBall]

There are unconfirmed rumors that the Bills are going to build a new, modern stadium in downtown Buffalo.  This will occur at the same time they develop the waterfront with 100 new stores, night clubs, and restaurants.  Then they will put in the worlds largest aquarium, tie it into the marina, bring back cable cars to take you anywhere downtown for 1$.  At the same time they will construct a new Signature Peace Bridge complete with a park.  Finally they reclaim some of the  lakefront and add public beaches, shops, condos, etc. 

 

After that Microsoft, Boeing, and Texas Instruments (renamed Buffalo Instruments) will move their operation in and everyone will have a great job.

646572[/snapback]

[stuckincincy]

There are unconfirmed rumors that the Bills are going to build a new, modern stadium in downtown Buffalo.  This will occur at the same time they develop the waterfront with 100 new stores, night clubs, and restaurants.  Then they will put in the worlds largest aquarium, tie it into the marina, bring back cable cars to take you anywhere downtown for 1$.  At the same time they will construct a new Signature Peace Bridge complete with a park.  Finally they reclaim some of the  lakefront and add public beaches, shops, condos, etc. 

 

After that Microsoft, Boeing, and Texas Instruments (renamed Buffalo Instruments) will move their operation in and everyone will have a great job.

646572[/snapback]

 

Will Bailo's, Freddie's Doughnuts, Pat's, Deco's, and Your Host come back?

[Dan Gross]

First off, Losman is, dare I say it, a victim of last year's coaching staff. He was named the starter without earning the job, which is something that even he was uncomfortable with it. As a result, I'm sure his teammates, who have all had to fight to earn their starting spot, did not fully buy in to a QB who was inserted into the mix. That certainly didn't help Losman last year as he tried to keep his starting role. It would also account for any rumoured "team doesn't like him" messages...

 

As to where things are now, it's kind of silly to think that the Bills would be ready to shuffle him off without even seeing him make one throw live, just based on tape. They just started the offseason conditioning program last week, so it seems far too early for the coaching staff to have assessed his current capabilities. Does that mean that Marv and company are not "testing the trade waters?" Absolutely not. You have a 3 way competition at QB (as Marv and Dick pretty much had said all along...Dick saying no one will be handed the starting job at any position, that it has to be earned, and Marv saying they'd be picking up a 2nd tier Free agent QB to give us 3 (non-NFL Europe) QB's), which means that there are 2 out of 3 outcomes that result in Losman not getting the starting job. Now this doesn't mean that Losman only has a 33% chance of getting the job, but if he can't beat out two other candidates in a practice scenario, then he's not going to cut it as a #1 QB for this offense during the season. If one of those two situations happen (Nall or Holcomb get the starting nod), you need to be ready for plan B. Plan B cannot (or at least shouldn't) include keeping Losman as a number 2 so you have to determine what your other options are. A trade is the best overall option because you get something for him. So where people are complaining that Levy won't get anything for Moulds because it's already clear the Bills will release Moulds, he's taking the opposite tack of looking for trade partners first in case he needs to dump Losman. This rumored "trade scenario" is not about Losman losing the team's confidence before he even steps out on the practice field, it's not about dumping a "TD guy," it's talking hypothetically with other teams to guage interest in anticipation of a possible outcome. This scenario would be completely consistent with everything we've heard from the coaching staff and front office, and I haven't seen them do anything that's inconsistent with what they've said they were going to do.

[Kelly the Dog]

Now this doesn't mean that Losman only has a 33% chance of getting the job, but if he can't beat out two other candidates in a practice scenario, then he's not going to cut it as a #1 QB for this offense during the season.  If one of those two situations happen (Nall or Holcomb get the starting nod), you need to be ready for plan B.  Plan B cannot (or at least shouldn't) include keeping Losman as a number 2 so you have to determine what your other options are.  A trade is the best overall option because you get something for him.  So where people are complaining that Levy won't get anything for Moulds because it's already clear the Bills will release Moulds, he's taking the opposite tack of looking for trade partners first in case he needs to dump Losman.  This rumored "trade scenario" is not about Losman losing the team's confidence before he even steps out on the practice field, it's not about dumping a "TD guy," it's talking hypothetically with other teams to guage interest in anticipation of a possible outcome. This scenario would be completely consistent with everything we've heard from the coaching staff and front office, and I haven't seen them do anything that's inconsistent with what they've said they were going to do.

646687[/snapback]

That doesn't make sense to me for a couple of reasons.

1] The JP is not ready business is not going to be solved in the OTAs or even in training camp. That is virtually impossible for me to believe. What they're going to see, almost without question, is Nall being a solid confident pocket thrower (I know nothing of his ball-handling capabilities), Kelly Holcomb being extremely efficient and playing his strengths and covering up his limitations, and Losman showing great skills including the long ball, running and terrific ball-handling.

 

Losman likely won't be as accurate as the other two, but in practice, this year, the gap will probably close. And he will be better at a lot of other things like running and rolling out and ball-handling and the long ball. They won't likely even know if the light comes on for Losman this year until four games into the season because pre-season isn't the real thing either.

 

That is why I am not really worried about this whole thing because I think Losman fairly easily wins the job in training camp and pre-season because of his talent. Whether or not he can do it when live bullets are flying is something no one on this earth including Losman, Levy, Jauron, Fairchild, and dare I say Charles Robinson knows. I think it will but it is total conjecture.

 

2] Even if Nall blows everyone's dentures off in the OTAs and training camp and pre-season and wins the starting job, why would you trade Losman then? The pick would be for next year. You don't know if Nall is going to be hurt. No one is going to give you anything for a guy who was just beat out by a nobody. It costs more to trade him than keep him. It makes no sense to me.

[stang21]

While hilarious, I think mine makes more sense. Unless of course you think the former 3rd string QB of Green Bay is the future QB of the Buffalo Bills. I'll take my chances with Vince.

[Dan Gross]

I knew eventually I'd get an actual response, just didn't know which thread I had to post in to get it...

 

That doesn't make sense to me for a couple of reasons.

1] The JP is not ready business is not going to be solved in the OTAs or even in training camp. That is virtually impossible for me to believe. What they're going to see, almost without question, is Nall being a solid confident pocket thrower (I know nothing of his ball-handling capabilities), Kelly Holcomb being extremely efficient and playing his strengths and covering up his limitations, and Losman showing great skills including the long ball, running and terrific ball-handling.

 

Losman likely won't be as accurate as the other two, but in practice, this year, the gap will probably close. And he will be better at a lot of other things like running and rolling out and ball-handling and the long ball. They won't likely even know if the light comes on for Losman this year until four games into the season because pre-season isn't the real thing either.

 

That is why I am not really worried about this whole thing because I think Losman fairly easily wins the job in training camp and pre-season because of his talent. Whether or not he can do it when live bullets are flying is something no one on this earth including Losman, Levy, Jauron, Fairchild, and dare I say Charles Robinson knows. I think it will but it is total conjecture.

 

See, if you read my post carefully, you are not exactly disagreeing with me. I believe that Losman can show enough in practices, because of all he brings to the table, to beat out these two. I think he can show himself off as a good practice QB, and earn the starting job, based especially on the competition he faces. If the Bills brought in Brees, then I'd say all bets are off. But his competition is a QB on the downside of the talent/capability slope and a QB with even less playing time than Losman. If he can't beat these guys out in practice, he certainly won't be better than them when the bullets fly (Nall, maybe, but not Holcomb). If he can, he will get the start, and I would imagine a reasonable leash to go with it. I don't think Jauron will pull him if Losman stinks up the joint in game 1...I think whoever wins the camp battle will get adequate time to prove themselves on the field, but again, if Losman can't beat those guys in practice, then what's the point?

 

2] Even if Nall blows everyone's dentures off in the OTAs and training camp and pre-season and wins the starting job, why would you trade Losman then? The pick would be for next year. You don't know if Nall is going to be hurt. No one is going to give you anything for a guy who was just beat out by a nobody. It costs more to trade him than keep him. It makes no sense to me.

646703[/snapback]

 

Depends on what value you can get for him. Again, you test the waters now to work into all the little equations going on in your head. You're right in that the longer the "evaluation period" goes on (and now that they are saying "training camp" it might change things in the end), the fewer openings as teams will want their rosters fairly well established by then. But injuries happen on other teams as well, so you could be prepared to deal Losman if a team has a "QB emergency." And just because Losman (hypothetically) doesn't work in our system doesn't mean that other systems won't work for him. Or heck, other coaches might see "something" that they feel they can fix...I mean, if 4 different teams gave Ryan Leaf (who was both a physical and a mental mess) a chance, why not Losman? Again, it's testing the waters, guaging interest, getting your contingency in place. It's not like they are signing anything...