jahnyc Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 The Bills routinely pay their players and free agents millions of dollars each year in bonuses. Paying Bates a few hundred thousand dollars a year more than they would like represents the cost of a top notch DC and the new realities in the NFL. I don't like Snyder, but paying for top coaching is a smart investment. In two years, Bates' salary requirements will seem more than reasonable. From all accounts, Bates is a difference maker. I am sorry, but Lynn or the guy from the Bears do not have his experience or track record with successful defenses. I also don't want to hear that this means that DJ will be running the defense. Our head coach needs coordinators that he can trust and delegate to, so he can focus on his own responsibilities, which are numerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Can you pay an OC 50% more than your HC? That might have been what it would have taken to get Bates. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 The Bills routinely pay their players and free agents millions of dollars each year in bonuses. Paying Bates a few hundred thousand dollars a year more than they would like represents the cost of a top notch DC and the new realities in the NFL. I don't like Snyder, but paying for top coaching is a smart investment. In two years, Bates' salary requirements will seem more than reasonable. From all accounts, Bates is a difference maker. I am sorry, but Lynn or the guy from the Bears do not have his experience or track record with successful defenses. I also don't want to hear that this means that DJ will be running the defense. Our head coach needs coordinators that he can trust and delegate to, so he can focus on his own responsibilities, which are numerous. 586584[/snapback] You are right that Jauron needs co-ords he can trust and delegate to, but due to these reasons Bates may not be the best choice for the job. Jauron's record of production has been one of having teams which are solid on D (running Jauron's system), but not so strong on O since Jauron was an NFL D player. Bates was attractive in many ways in that he is a former interim HC who would not have to install HID D with the Bills to make his bones and put him in line for the next HC openings. He has a rep as a good teacher and has seen lots of stuff in his career. However, I think Jauron was probably most attracted to him because Bates showed the ability to learn the Jauron way, add some good suggestions to it to tweak it, but in the end, Jauron was not going to have to fight or dicker with Bates over what base D scheme they were going to employ and how they were going to work it. It does not surprise me that the Bills were willing to fork over the usual amount of exhorbitant $ that a DC gets to teach playing this boys game, but they were not willing to expand the envelope in terms of payment and Bates had other options (he stuill is under contract to and will get a great nickel from GB) besides the Bills even with the last DC job gone. Again, I think it is pretty impossible for any of us outsiders to know exactly how the coaching staff background and skillsets match up with the players, but in the end it would not surprise me at all if Jauron makes judgments about the individuals applying for the few remaining openings with a retinue of position coaches he mostly inherited as to how these individuals help fill out and complete the coaching staff team he is putting together. A brief look at the resumes and pictures of the current Bills coaching staff and openings is that it would not surprise me if his DC and remaining hires are: 1. Have reps as smart guys who are good teachers who DO NOT have the experience level to be able to run any other D but Jauron's or have enough experience they have no need to enforce their own D over Jauron's to make their rep. 2. Really provide background and demographics to the staff that fill out this team. As many of the folks on staff now are older, of caucasian descent, and have whatever background they have in terms of regional chops, the best way for Jauron to build a winning team is to get fellows who can relate well to youth, are of A-A descent and fill out wherever he feels their may be regional gaps. The baseline will be to get bright guys who are good teachers, but making this a good team will likely make the marginal difference that determines whether the Bills go that extra mile in laying out bucks to get a particular individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Can you pay an OC 50% more than your HC? That might have been what it would have taken to get Bates. I haven't seen it posted anywhere, but I'd be surprised if Jauron wasn't making $1.5M a year. And Bates turned down offers of $1M a year. Dumb move on his part because no one will offer him a HC job if he sits out the year, and he probably won't make more money as a DC next year, while being out of the loop for a year will hurt. I thought he was smarter than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 The Bills routinely pay their players and free agents millions of dollars each year in bonuses. Paying Bates a few hundred thousand dollars a year more than they would like represents the cost of a top notch DC and the new realities in the NFL. I don't like Snyder, but paying for top coaching is a smart investment. 586584[/snapback] Agreed - I posted this yesterday. WTF is a few hundred K when you're spending tens of millions on players and you're near the cap limit? It makes no sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I haven't seen it posted anywhere, but I'd be surprised if Jauron wasn't making $1.5M a year. And Bates turned down offers of $1M a year. Dumb move on his part because no one will offer him a HC job if he sits out the year, and he probably won't make more money as a DC next year, while being out of the loop for a year will hurt. I thought he was smarter than that. 586617[/snapback] We're all guessing here, but maybe Bates did not want to work under a DC who was a defensive guy? I'm just grasping at straws. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Agreed - I posted this yesterday. WTF is a few hundred K when you're spending tens of millions on players and you're near the cap limit? It makes no sense to me. 586627[/snapback] If that was the only reason, then yes...but we are only assuming. Buffalo is not the sexiest destination in the NFL. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gobillsinytown Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 All of this makes sense, except for one problem: We really don't know why Bates turned down the job. There have been rumors on the internet that it was over money, but the only way to be sure is for Bates to confirm that. That being said, the one trend that we can see in the NFL is that owners are moving away from "name" coaches, since Martz, Sherman, Bates and other "name' assistants are still out there. Maybe we're seeing the next wave of coaching talent moving up the ranks. In the long run all that matters is winning. So if Ralph and Marv are picking coaches who will help the team win, who cares how much they make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Bates might be making a rather large tactical error. Almost a full third of the league hired new coaches this year, more than any year I can remember. Those guys will not lose their jobs. There are also probably a third who are totally secure in their jobs. One must figure the ones in the middle, half will have good years and half bad. That doesn't leave a lot of jobs open next year, although there are always a few. But there is still Sherman (Bates' boss) and probably Martz out there, plus a few flavor of the day coordinators who will likely shoot up the ranks like every year. Bates sitting out a year may only give him less than a 50-50 chance at a HC job, whereas if he takes over the Bills D, which has a good chance at jumping 15 spots in the ratings doing very little, he could very well be at the top of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester74 Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 We're all guessing here, but maybe Bates did not want to work under a DC who was a defensive guy? I'm just grasping at straws. PTR 586629[/snapback] I could understand that.. being second guessed by the "defensive HC" all the time, might suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 That being said, the one trend that we can see in the NFL is that owners are moving away from "name" coaches, since Martz, Sherman, Bates and other "name' assistants are still out there. Maybe we're seeing the next waveof coaching talent moving up the ranks. 586636[/snapback] More likely its owners trying to nip the escalating coaching salary trend in the bud(except for 'Lil Danny in Washington). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agua Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 If the rumors are true (and given the credibility of sports media, that's a big "if"), then I'm *really* surprised Bates declined the job. The guy seemed to LOVE coaching. Tough loss there buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 The Bills routinely pay their players and free agents millions of dollars each year in bonuses. Paying Bates a few hundred thousand dollars a year more than they would like represents the cost of a top notch DC and the new realities in the NFL. I don't like Snyder, but paying for top coaching is a smart investment. In two years, Bates' salary requirements will seem more than reasonable. From all accounts, Bates is a difference maker. I am sorry, but Lynn or the guy from the Bears do not have his experience or track record with successful defenses. I also don't want to hear that this means that DJ will be running the defense. Our head coach needs coordinators that he can trust and delegate to, so he can focus on his own responsibilities, which are numerous. 586584[/snapback] I appreciate what you're saying, I really do. But nobody knows what really went/is going down except for the parties involved, and they ain't talkin'. Maybe Jauron interviewed him and thought, "What a prick!" They need to get along and be on the same page if this thing's gonna' work - regardless of a DC's reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Maybe Jauron interviewed him and thought, "What a prick!" They need to get along and be on the same page if this thing's gonna' work - regardless of a DC's reputation. 586691[/snapback] I caught an ESPN superbowl flashback show on the '85 Bears and it was really funny how Ditka and Buddy Ryan basically hated each other. Ryan wouldn't even listen to Ditka and the defensive players basically dismissed him as HC in favor of Buddy. Not that the Bills have one-tenth the talent, but it sort of dispelled the kumbaya concept of how a coaching staff has to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 I appreciate what you're saying, I really do. But nobody knows what really went/is going down except for the parties involved, and they ain't talkin'. Maybe Jauron interviewed him and thought, "What a prick!" They need to get along and be on the same page if this thing's gonna' work - regardless of a DC's reputation. Well the Bills DID offer Bates the DC job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Well the Bills DID offer Bates the DC job. 586702[/snapback] He is "mulling things over," isn't he? My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 Not that the Bills have one-tenth the talent, but it sort of dispelled the kumbaya concept of how a coaching staff has to work. 586699[/snapback] There's always an exception. But it's interesting that it seemed that Buddy Ryan never got along with anybody, isn't it? Not that I never wanted to take a poke at Kildrive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 He is "mulling things over," isn't he? My bad. I hope he still is. He'd be making a BIG mistake sitting out for the year, hoping for a HC'ing that will NOT come next year, and even a DC job that's better and/or pays more might not materialize either. But the fact that they offered him the job means that Jauron felt he could work with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 More likely its owners trying to nip the escalating coaching salary trend in the bud(except for 'Lil Danny in Washington). 586684[/snapback] They can't. They need to compete with colleges for coaches and colleges are paying coaches boatloads since they do not need to pay players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 28, 2006 Share Posted January 28, 2006 There's always an exception. But it's interesting that it seemed that Buddy Ryan never got along with anybody, isn't it? 586709[/snapback] The amazing thing to me is how his players loved him, even though the rest of the world hated the guy (which as you say, Buddy seemed to go out of his way to promote). I've never heard players comment on their love of a coach more than those Bears' guys did. I wonder where that feeling comes from, since Buddy IS the world's biggest prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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