Would you guys just stop

[seq004]

All season long everyone wanted TD & MM out of town ASAP and now that they are gone everyone decides that this team is a joke, no free agents coming, an old man for a GM and we have all of a sudden become the laughing stock of the NFL. We don't even have a head coach yet but I'm sure he'll be the wrong guy right? This is what you wanted and so that's what we got. I'm going to give it some time and trust in Marv that they'll get the mess that TD & MM left behind fixed because that's what they left behind a house built without a frame. A team that looked good on the outside but when you opened the door you saw what a real mess it was. A team built on trust that TD and MM knew what they were doing. That's what Ralph was given blind loyalty. I can think of no other man that cares about the team the town and the fans like Marv Levy. Let's give them a chance.

[Mark VI]

Let...There...Be...Peace...On Earth..

And let it begin with me ! ( Sobbing... singing loudly..)

[Grant]

I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms. Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills

[buffaloboyinATL]

I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms.  Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills

566228[/snapback]

 

The only message being sent is that Ralph didn't want to pay the final 3 years of his contract so he made him so uncomfortable that he would quit. Doesn't look good but it also doesn't surprise me at all.

[Grant]

The only message being sent is that Ralph didn't want to pay the final 3 years of his contract so he made him so uncomfortable that he would quit.  Doesn't look good but it also doesn't surprise me at all.

566237[/snapback]

 

Well, you're almost there.

 

If Ralph is making it clear he'd rather manipulate a coach into resigning rather than honoring a written contract, why would any player or coach want to come into an environment that clearly not interested in having any class at all?

 

It drives me nuts that fans on these boards are willing to excuse the behavior from this organization just because we're fans. Like Ralph Wilson is our alcoholic parent and we just keep making excuses for him, trying to convince ourselves that "they" know best.

 

People get angry when a player demands more money or a trade when they don't like their original contract. Why is no one getting upset that Wilson won't honor a deal he made two years ago? You signed Mularkey for 5 years. If you want him here that long, you've got him. If you don't, then be a man, fire him and pay him. But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand? Fuggin' ridiculous! It makes me beyond embarassed to associate with this franchise. At least when the Bills didn't make the playoffs a few years ago, we could still say the franchise had class. Well, you can't say that with a straight face anymore.

[seq004]

I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms.  Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills

566228[/snapback]

I don't think it means that at all. To me MM was fired. They tell him to fire all his coaches, bring in a HOF coach that will be looking over his shoulders so he'll be on pins and needles. It's a force out for two reasons, which are Ralph not having to pay him his contract and get a new coach so they can get assistant coaches.

[Grant]

I don't think it means that at all. To me MM was fired. They tell him to fire all his coaches, bring in a HOF coach that will be looking over his shoulders so he'll be on pins and needles. It's a force out for two reasons, which are Ralph not having to pay him his contract and get a new coach so they can get assistant coaches.

566246[/snapback]

 

Why not just fire him then? It's shameful that Wilson would not honor the fuggin' deal he agreed to.

 

If I were a coach in the NFL, I would look at this situation in Buffalo (coupled with the Wade Philips debacle a few years back) and avoid it like the plague. Why take a job where you'll have no power, be held accountable for what happens anyway, and then not even be guaranteed that your contract will be honored?

[IndyMark]

If I were a coach in the NFL, I would look at this situation in Buffalo (coupled with the Wade Philips debacle a few years back) and avoid it like the plague. Why take a job where you'll have no power, be held accountable for what happens anyway, and then not even be guaranteed that your contract will be honored?

566248[/snapback]

 

 

And if I were a coach in the NFL I would look at the Buffalo situation as very promising. So what is your point?

 

You wanted the removal of TD and MM on YOUR terms? With all due respect who are you?

 

This board and the comments of people regarding RW, ML and the 'handling' of MM clearly cement the fact that Buffalo fans are fickle and weak, by and large.

 

A few years back someone stated that 50% of the Bills fans will B word once we win the superbowl because we didn't win it 'their' way. At one point I thought that was laughable. Now, not so much.

[Buffal0 Bill5]

But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand? 

566245[/snapback]

It happens in business all of the time, from the littlest jobs to the biggest. I'm glad Ralph isn't going to have to pay this guy. By the way, were talking in the millions, not thousands.

[Grant]

And if I were a coach in the NFL I would look at the Buffalo situation as very promising.  So what is your point?

 

I read this a few times hoping for a trace of irony. I concluded there is none.

 

What about the Buffalo situation is promising? An owner who's publicly stating he'll return to meddling? A general manager with no experience and has been out of the game for 10 years? Two coaches in the past 6 years who's contracts haven't been honored (well, one was, but it took legal action to do it)? How is that promising?!

 

You wanted the removal of TD and MM on YOUR terms?  With all due respect who are you?

 

This was such an innocent, ignorant thing to say, it kind of made me chuckle. I don't mean to be condescending, but the way it was worded just seemed very... child-like, I don't know.

 

In any case, I obviously didn't mean "OUR terms" as in we, specifically. I meant that we fans wanted TD and Mularkey out, but we wanted them FIRED. That is, we wanted the organization ("us") to reject them - not the other way around.

This board and the comments of people regarding RW, ML and the 'handling' of MM clearly cement the fact that Buffalo fans are fickle and weak, by and large.

 

A few years back someone stated that 50% of the Bills fans will B word once we win the superbowl because we didn't win it 'their' way.  At one point I thought that was laughable.  Now, not so much.

566256[/snapback]

 

You're right. Why should anyone be unhappy? Things are fine! It's our duty as fans to just accept being taken advantage of, right? Willfull ignorance rules supreme.

[Grant]

It happens in business all of the time, from the littlest jobs to the biggest.

 

Because that somehow justifies it?

 

I'm glad Ralph isn't going to have to pay this guy.

 

Why? It's not coming out of your pocket.

 

By the way, were talking in the millions, not thousands.

566265[/snapback]

 

Even if it is, the Bills are a multi-million dollar franchise. They can afford it. Paying Mularkey isn't going to break anyone.

 

If he didn't intend on honoring his contract if Mularkey didn't work out, he shouldn't have allowed a 5 year deal.

[IndyMark]

I read this a few times hoping for a trace of irony. I concluded there is none.

 

hat about the Buffalo situation is promising? An owner who's publicly stating he'll return to meddling? A general manager with no experience and has been out of the game for 10 years? Two coaches in the past 6 years who's contracts haven't been honored (well, one was, but it took legal action to do it)?  How is that promising?!

This was such an innocent, ignorant thing to say, it kind of made me chuckle. I don't mean to be condescending, but the way it was worded just seemed very... child-like, I don't know.

 

In any case, I obviously didn't mean "OUR terms" as in we, specifically. I meant that we fans wanted TD and Mularkey out, but we wanted them FIRED.  That is, we wanted the organization ("us") to reject them - not the other way around.

This board and the comments of people regarding RW, ML and the 'handling' of MM clearly cement the fact that Buffalo fans are fickle and weak, by and large. 

You're right. Why should anyone be unhappy? Things are fine!  It's our duty as fans to just accept being taken advantage of, right? Willfull ignorance rules supreme.

566267[/snapback]

 

So you are saying that an NFL HEAD COACHING job is unattractive? Really? That is an interesting perspective. Oh, that is right I cannot match wits with someone as clever as you.

 

By the way, nothing but immaturity and worry was 'obvious' in your post. You appear to 'melt' with pressure and get super nervous if things do not go your way. There is medicine or therapy for that....or you just can wait and grow up.

 

Either way, in about 1 or 2 months your words will ring hollow.

[seq004]

Why not just fire him then?  It's shameful that Wilson would not honor the fuggin' deal he agreed to.

 

If I were a coach in the NFL, I would look at this situation in Buffalo (coupled with the Wade Philips debacle a few years back) and avoid it like the plague. Why take a job where you'll have no power, be held accountable for what happens anyway, and then not even be guaranteed that your contract will be honored?

566248[/snapback]

 

Come on, Wilson did honer the contract Mularkey quit. The bottom line is if you go 5-11 in any city bad things will happen. It's a nasty business and their are a hole lot of other owners who are worse than Ralph. You know the last time Ralph gave total power to someone he destroyed the team in 5 years.

[Grant]

So you are saying that an NFL HEAD COACHING job is unattractive?  Really?  That is an interesting perspective.  Oh, that is right I cannot match wits with someone as clever as you. 

 

Apparently not, as you refuted nothing I said. You merely resorted to personal attacks. Your best retort was that an NFL head coaching position is attractive no matter what the negatives attached, but with as many openings as there are, I doubt Buffalo is number one on many lists.

 

By the way, nothing but immaturity and worry was 'obvious' in your post.  You appear to 'melt' with pressure and get super nervous if things do not go your way. There is medicine or therapy for that....or you just can wait and grow up.

566272[/snapback]

 

Was this a self-examiniation? Because I would argue that immaturity/insecurity is most readily apparent in shallow personal attacks backed up by no argument what-so-ever.

[Grant]

The bottom line is if you go 5-11 in any city bad things will happen. It's a nasty business and their are a hole lot of other owners who are worse than Ralph. You know the last time Ralph gave total power to someone he destroyed the team in 5 years.

566275[/snapback]

 

I agree that Mularkey deserved to be fired, but that's just it - he should have been FIRED. Not manipulated into quitting.

[finknottle]

I'd like to clarify that we wanted TD and MM out, but on OUR terms.  Mularkey resigning is not something that sends a positive message because it means that a second-year head coach decided an organization wasn't good enough for him. That doesn't reflect well on the Bills

566228[/snapback]

 

I've never shied away from bashing the organization, but this I think is great for the Bills. Look at it from the national media's perspective. Why would they view the Bills as in disarray as opposed to the TD regime? Who in the organization is a problem today that wasn't here one month ago, when presumably MM was a happy camper? Levy in place of TD, and an owner that cans a GM after 5 years with a dismal record and takes back some control. Gee, that's unheard of in the NFL! Seriously, I do not believe this sends the troubling message that people here are worrying about.

 

Whatever thoughts and concerns people have about the Bills organization will be forgotten as soon as there is a management team and coaching staff in place. And with the lame-duck taint gone, this is suddenly a much more attractive opening for assistants.

 

For better or for worse, however, MM will be marked as a quitter if and when he gets another shot. Those questions will linger about him far longer than it will the Bills.

[Tasker]

Guys, anybody who things this is not a great thing is off base. Not as great as it would have been to fire him Tuesday morning after the Miami loss, or the day after the season, or maybe even when he first moved to Holcomb, but still pretty great.

 

We are talking about a guy who might be a decent coach in his second or third try if he gets a chance, but wasn't going to work out in Buffalo. His play calling was rediculous consistently, and as a former offensive coordinator this should have been his strength. He didn't have a clue how to handle young players (JPL and Willis) or veterans (Adams and Moulds), and was terrible in dealing with the media.

 

I assume we will end up with Haslett, which I think will be an improvement, but there are other options that could be even better, but most importantly we closed the cycle of TD/MM, and can start fresh. As I've said in other discussions I would have loved to get Herm Edwards (even at that price and draft picks), and we can talk about the people we missed two years ago when MM was originally hired, but with Haslett and all the other options, I would rather have the best option Marv will be able to come up with as opposed to a lame duck MM.

 

I was one of the people repeatedly calling for the heads of TD and MM (only the firings guys...you don't have to fear for your safety or rush your families out of Buffalo), and I am as happy as can be that they are both gone. I think that a fresh start is of value in itself, but I also think that whoever Marv brings in will be chosen in a way that he will work well and be molded by Marv.

 

We have seen the darkest in Buffalo. Still have to find out if JPL is our future (I'm hoping 16 starts this year will give us a good hint), still have to get both lines in order, and still build a quality coaching staff around our new head coach. But I like Marv and Marv's hand picked coach a lot better than TD/MM.

[kasper13]

The next 5 months around here will go pretty much like this.....

 

Marv must go. The new head coach stinks. The new OC is a joke. The new DC is a bum. All the new assistants are no good. The draft was a giant bust. Why didn't we get TO. Why did we not sign all the big name free agents. The free agents the Bills did sign are all no good. The O-Line is no good. The QB is no good. Why did we get rid of Mike Williams? Why did we get rid of Eric Moulds? The Bills looked great in mini-camp, I can't wait for the season to start. That takes us to June.

[jarthur31]

All season long everyone wanted TD & MM out of town ASAP and now that they are gone everyone decides that this team is a joke, no free agents coming, an old man for a GM and we have all of a sudden become the laughing stock of the NFL. We don't even have a head coach yet but I'm sure he'll be the wrong guy right? This is what you wanted and so that's what we got. I'm going to give it some time and trust in Marv that they'll get  the mess that TD & MM left behind fixed because that's what they left behind a house built without a frame. A team that looked good on the outside but when you opened the door you saw what a real mess it was. A team built on trust that TD and MM knew what they were doing. That's what Ralph was given blind loyalty. I can think of no other man that cares about the team the town and the fans like Marv Levy. Let's give them a chance.

566211[/snapback]

 

I wanted TD gone solely because he refused to upgrade the O-line. MM quit like a coward. May he never have a HC job in the NFL. I suspect that he felt like Levy would be looking over his shoulder now. Marv is a legend in Buffalo and deservedly so.

[jarthur31]

Well, you're almost there.

 

If Ralph is making it clear he'd rather manipulate a coach into resigning rather than honoring a written contract, why would any player or coach want to come into an environment that clearly not interested in having any class at all?

 

It drives me nuts that fans on these boards are willing to excuse the behavior from this organization just because we're fans. Like Ralph Wilson is our alcoholic parent and we just keep making excuses for him, trying to convince ourselves that "they" know best.

 

People get angry when a player demands more money or a trade when they don't like their original contract. Why is no one getting upset that Wilson won't honor a deal he made two years ago?  You signed Mularkey for 5 years.  If you want him here that long, you've got him.  If you don't, then be a man, fire him and pay him.  But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand?  Fuggin' ridiculous!  It makes me beyond embarassed to associate with this franchise. At least when the Bills didn't make the playoffs a few years ago, we could still say the franchise had class. Well, you can't say that with a straight face anymore.

566245[/snapback]

 

 

Simply because that doesn't make sense to most people. If you get fired, you don't get money well after you're gone.

[John in VA Beach]

I think a lot of you folks need to consider this from a bit different perspective. Maybe this whole thing sends the message to potential coaches that you'd better believe you can put up a winner before you get here, because we are sick of loosing and will no longer accept it?

 

Any coach worth a dime will believe in his own ability to build a winner and will not consider passing on Buffalo because he might not get his pay of he is canned. I want a guy who is sure he will succeed.

 

MM showed in resigning he had no confidence he could build a winner here. If he was offended by what people said he should have had the balls to think that they'll change their tune next year when we're in the playoffs. Obviously, he didn't have that confidence in himself, so I say good riddance.

[IndyMark]

Apparently not, as you refuted nothing I said. You merely resorted to personal attacks. Your best retort was that an NFL head coaching position is attractive no matter what the negatives attached, but with as many openings as there are, I doubt Buffalo is number one on many lists.

Was this a self-examiniation? Because I would argue that immaturity/insecurity is most readily apparent in shallow personal attacks backed up by no argument what-so-ever.

566280[/snapback]

 

 

That is a pretty selective memory, my friend. Look at your intial response to me. So when you call me ignorant that is NOT a personal attack?

 

Your panties are all uptight because you think all of the NFL is laughing at us. Big deal. Did you conveniently forget our 4 consecutive superbowl losses? Yea, cause no one laughed at us then

 

Your Psychology 101 analysis was cute, in a "look at me I just finished my first year at college" kind of way.

 

Since when did backing up arguments with facts become a rule on this forum? Hey, if you feel strong and smart after posting here - good for you. You probably need it.

 

Bottom line, no one knows how the Bills will pan out over the next few months. Sit back, relax and enjoy the ride.

[Grant]

That is a pretty selective memory, my friend.  Look at your intial response to me.  So when you call me ignorant that is NOT a personal attack?

 

Aww, is that what made you upset, Marky? I didn't mean it in a harsh way. I was being a bit snarky, but I wasn't trying to be mean.

 

I'm sorry if I hurt your widdle feelings here on Two Bills Drive, where we specialize in football and cuddling!

 

Your panties are all uptight because you think all of the NFL is laughing at us.  Big deal.  Did you conveniently forget our 4 consecutive superbowl losses? Yea, cause no one laughed at us then

 

That makes the current events justified? "We were laughed at before, it's okay if it happens again"? What? Jesus, Mark, think before you type.

 

Your Psychology 101 analysis was cute, in a "look at me I just finished my first year at college" kind of way.

 

I would try to remind you that you were the first to offer an analysis, but somehow I'm pretty sure it will fall on blind eyes.

 

Since when did backing up arguments with facts become a rule on this forum?

 

It's not a rule, but it generally helps your credibility. You don't need to worry about that anymore, though.

 

Bottom line, no one knows how the Bills will pan out over the next few months.  Sit back, relax and enjoy the ride.

566376[/snapback]

 

Er... well, of course no one knows what the future holds. But we weren't talking about the future, hombre. We were talking about the recent past and whether or not it was the right decision.

 

I'm not sure why on TSW it's so difficult to have conversations strictly about football (I'm not even asking for intelligent conversations anymore). More than half the time it degenerates into fights or off-topic silliness.

 

But I do think what transpired with Mularkey is worth talking about. I think it's a terrible blemish on the franchise and it's something that ought to not be just swept aside because we wanted Mularkey out anyway. Yes, most of us (including myself) wanted Mularkey out. But not like this. No one's upset that Mularkey is gone, but I am definitely upset in the way that it was handled. And it's worth talking about, dammit.

[beerme1]

Let...There...Be...Peace...On Earth..

And let it begin with me ! ( Sobbing... singing loudly..)

566219[/snapback]

 

 

Sing out loud

Sing out proud

 

Sing....

 

Happy not sad...

[JAMIEBUF12]

i am crazy happy mike resigned and i am glad we fired td. who cares how people will perceive mike quitting on the bills ,just be glad he is gone

[beerme1]

Well, you're almost there.

 

If Ralph is making it clear he'd rather manipulate a coach into resigning rather than honoring a written contract, why would any player or coach want to come into an environment that clearly not interested in having any class at all?

 

It drives me nuts that fans on these boards are willing to excuse the behavior from this organization just because we're fans. Like Ralph Wilson is our alcoholic parent and we just keep making excuses for him, trying to convince ourselves that "they" know best.

 

People get angry when a player demands more money or a trade when they don't like their original contract. Why is no one getting upset that Wilson won't honor a deal he made two years ago?  You signed Mularkey for 5 years.  If you want him here that long, you've got him.  If you don't, then be a man, fire him and pay him.  But manipulating someone into quitting because you're trying to save a few thousand?  Fuggin' ridiculous!  It makes me beyond embarassed to associate with this franchise. At least when the Bills didn't make the playoffs a few years ago, we could still say the franchise had class. Well, you can't say that with a straight face anymore.

566245[/snapback]

 

 

Sorry to but in, but can I suggest that you never, EVER buy a ticket to a Bills game again.

Thanks.

[Grant]

"If you don't like it, GIT OUT!"

[IndyMark]

Aww, is that what made you upset, Marky?  I didn't mean it in a harsh way. I was being a bit snarky, but I wasn't trying to be mean.

 

I'm sorry if I hurt your widdle feelings here on Two Bills Drive, where we specialize in football and cuddling! 

That makes the current events justified? "We were laughed at before, it's okay if it happens again"?  What?  Jesus, Mark, think before you type.

I would try to remind you that you were the first to offer an analysis, but somehow I'm pretty sure it will fall on blind eyes.

It's not a rule, but it generally helps your credibility. You don't need to worry about that anymore, though.

Er... well, of course no one knows what the future holds. But we weren't talking about the future, hombre. We were talking about the recent past and whether or not it was the right decision.

 

I'm not sure why on TSW it's so difficult to have conversations strictly about football (I'm not even asking for intelligent conversations anymore). More than half the time it degenerates into fights or off-topic silliness.

 

But I do think what transpired with Mularkey is worth talking about. I think it's a terrible blemish on the franchise and it's something that ought to not be just swept aside because we wanted Mularkey out anyway. Yes, most of us (including myself) wanted Mularkey out. But not like this. No one's upset that Mularkey is gone, but I am definitely upset in the way that it was handled. And it's worth talking about, dammit.

566433[/snapback]

 

 

Wow, Grant you are so witty. Your personal attacks and sarcastic dispostion, while you believe to be carefully crafted, ultimately yield the hypocrite you are.

 

We could banter on endlessly and, I imagine in some warped way you would find that appeasing to your self worth. But alas, my friend Grant, I just like to stop by here see what is up and leave the big thinking logic-based arguing to the heavy hitters like yourself.

 

While forums like this serve multiple purposes, validating self ought not be one of them (I hope you were sitting for that).

 

I hope you had a good time and feel better now - because the reputation of the Bills is on the line after all and who better to right the ship or get everyone thinking the same way other than you?

 

That is a big job and I am sure your perception of your self is up to it.

 

It has been a pleasure Grant.

[AJ1]

It makes me beyond embarassed to associate with this franchise.

 

 

 

Then disassociate yourself. If I have to read any more of this drama queen morally outraged puffery I'll puke.

[IndyMark]

Then disassociate yourself.  If I have to read any more of this drama queen morally outraged puffery I'll puke.

566456[/snapback]

 

 

I needed your words about two responses ago - well said. He actually suckered me into responding to his urine.

[Grant]

Then disassociate yourself.  If I have to read any more of this drama queen morally outraged puffery I'll puke.

566456[/snapback]

 

Awesome. Again, the only solution is "if you don't like it, GIT OUT!"

 

Maybe in some ways you're right. After all, it is only football. Why really worry about it? Well, we shouldn't. And I don't think the Bills drastically affect one's overall mood or day or whatever drastically anyway.

 

But this is a Bills message board. Although the fans don't have any real say nor power in the direction of the franchise, it is a franchise that, for whatever reason, we've decided we like enough to seek out an internet site to post on about said franchise. And right now, the Bills are in the middle of a quagmire. I can see nothing wrong with wanting to talk about why this is or how to get out of it.

 

After all, it seems kind of ridiculous to want every post to always be "GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

 

Edit: Since we haven't even discussed the topic at hand since page one and we're already at the bottom of page two and still chasing our tails, it's kind of pointless (for me anyway) to keep this up.

[beerme1]

Although the fans don't have any real say nor power in the direction of the franchise,

[/i]

566481[/snapback]

 

Really? So you think MM is lying about the "detractors" affecting him?

Really? You think if we (not you) fans didn't speak out in any manner we have available to us including message boards that TD would be gone?

Really?

 

I ask that you never EVER buy a ticket to a Bills game so that much like people who don't vote are not entitled to B word about any political landscape, you too shall be silenced. In a way that would make TD proud.

[Rico]

I did not really want to see TD go, but I am overjoyed to see Meathead leave...

more than a push, right now I'm happy!

 

This could change pretty quick though if Ralph/Marv !@#$ up the next HC choice/FA decisions/Draft.