SACTOBILLSFAN Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Well now that Fat Mike has been benched for the game this sunday is it ok to call him the biggest bust this franchise has ever had? I think so. Erik Flowers was a big one too, but Mike got so much money I think he easily gets the nod as the biggest bust. Here is a look at where offensive linemen from the 02 draft are faringw with their respective clubs: First Round: Mike Williams - we all know he sucks, and isn't starting anymore Bryant McKinnie (MIN) - listed as a starter for Minnesota Levi Jones (CIN) - starting at LT for Cincy Marc Colombo (CHI) - Not listed on Depth Chart or Roster anywhere Kendall Simmons (PIT) - starting for PIT...a dominant O-line Second Round: Andre Gurode (DAL) - Back-up center for Dallas (and gets a lot of PT) Toniu Fonoti (SD) - 3rd stringer for Minny Mike Pearson (JAX) - Back-up for JAX Chester Pitts (HOU) - Starting LT for HOU (but we all know how good that OL is) Langston Walker (OAK) - 3rd string LG for OAK So in regards to money and the draft pick invested Mike Williams stands alone as the WORST O-lineman from that draft. The team could have gone in a few different directions, and in hind-sight they chose the wrong one. How much is TD et al to blame for this debacle??? I think it sets us back in a huge way in terms of building an O-line and the rest of the team just because of the huge $$$ we have tied up in this fat ass, and TD needs to be held accountable for this kind of crap. I don't want to hear about how he relies on scouting and different info, because in the end its his decision and this was one of the worst draft picks in the history of the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfanmiami(oh) Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 I agree with much of what you're saying but if I remember correctly we were in DIRE need of o-lineman in that draft. It wasn't really even a question of what area we would adress with the #4 pick, it was which one of the dominant "can't miss" tackles would we take; Big Mike or McKinnie. Based on salary, performance, and overall expectations it seems like we can call them both "busts" at this point. From your list, it actually looks like Simmons and Levi Jones are the only early rounders from that draft that are performing. Today we can all sit here and second guess the pick but honestly in the same position a few years ago how could you not take one of those guys. Thats why the draft is still a pretty big crap shoot with slightly better odds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 They should try converting MW to defensive tackle. He sucks right now but he is still a unique talent in that he is one of the strongest guys in the NFL - if he collides with you, chances are you are going backwards. His problem is that his feet suck so he will end up whiffing on too many blocks and can't lock on to use his power. If he were on the defensive side of the ball, the opposition's job would actually be to seek contact with him (in order to block him) instead of avoiding him, and that just might be the change he needs to start becoming a good football player. I honestly believe he could be a good situational run stuffer that pushes the pile and occupies blockers, and lord knows we need something like that in the middle of our DL. All I know is that MW is still a unique talent and great coaches find a way to use and gain from having someone like him on the roster, even if it means switching his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Hah and to think some of use were universally ridiculed for saying TD should ahve taken McKinnie over Williams. Two facts in life: 1) you can never have too many Hurricanes on your roster 2) The Big Twelve sucks donkey d*ck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Hah and to think some of use were universally ridiculed for saying TD should ahve taken McKinnie over Williams. Seeing as neither guy has lived up to his billing, that's no different from ridiculing somebody for wanting WIlliams over McKinnie. And before anybody gives me shlt, I didn't care which one it was; they were 6 of one and half-dozen of the other to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Hah and to think some of use were universally ridiculed for saying TD should ahve taken McKinnie over Williams. Two facts in life: 1) you can never have too many Hurricanes on your roster 2) The Big Twelve sucks donkey d*ck 503444[/snapback] JSP, McKinnie is terrible. Combine that with his terrible attitude (he was arrested last month as well as seen dumping evidence from the boat cruise), and I'd take MW in a heartbeat. I also still think MW, when healthy is much better than BM. Look at the end of last season, and the few games he played this season. They probably moved him to guard to minimize his ankle problems (although I'm guessing). CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 It's amazing how easy it is to be intuitive 4 years after the draft. The list of 1st round flops is longer than the list of 1st round pro-bowlers. The draft is a crap shoot at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obie_wan Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 It's amazing how easy it is to be intuitive 4 years after the draft. The list of 1st round flops is longer than the list of 1st round pro-bowlers. The draft is a crap shoot at best. 503453[/snapback] all the more reason to get out of the top 5 at any cost just to save the huge money required. Due to the huge investment, Fat Mike was not moved to G earlier in a failed attempt by Teflon Tom to save face. Pearson should have been the pick as a LT in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 It's amazing how easy it is to be intuitive 4 years after the draft. The list of 1st round flops is longer than the list of 1st round pro-bowlers. The draft is a crap shoot at best. 503453[/snapback] Truly. When he's healthy, he's done well - or at least he was acceptable. I believe it's as much luck as anything else, but MW just hasn't been able to shake the injury bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fezmid Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 all the more reason to get out of the top 5 at any cost just to save the huge money required. To be fair, the talk back then was that TD tried to move out of the #4 spot, but couldn't find anyone to deal with. And contrary to what some people may say here, you don't trade the #4 for the #30 and a 7th round pick; that just makes the GM look stupid. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Well now that Fat Mike has been benched for the game this sunday is it ok to call him the biggest bust this franchise has ever had? I think so. Erik Flowers was a big one too, but Mike got so much money I think he easily gets the nod as the biggest bust. Here is a look at where offensive linemen from the 02 draft are faringw with their respective clubs: First Round: Mike Williams - we all know he sucks, and isn't starting anymore Bryant McKinnie (MIN) - listed as a starter for Minnesota Levi Jones (CIN) - starting at LT for Cincy Marc Colombo (CHI) - Not listed on Depth Chart or Roster anywhere Kendall Simmons (PIT) - starting for PIT...a dominant O-line Second Round: Andre Gurode (DAL) - Back-up center for Dallas (and gets a lot of PT) Toniu Fonoti (SD) - 3rd stringer for Minny Mike Pearson (JAX) - Back-up for JAX Chester Pitts (HOU) - Starting LT for HOU (but we all know how good that OL is) Langston Walker (OAK) - 3rd string LG for OAK So in regards to money and the draft pick invested Mike Williams stands alone as the WORST O-lineman from that draft. The team could have gone in a few different directions, and in hind-sight they chose the wrong one. How much is TD et al to blame for this debacle??? I think it sets us back in a huge way in terms of building an O-line and the rest of the team just because of the huge $$$ we have tied up in this fat ass, and TD needs to be held accountable for this kind of crap. I don't want to hear about how he relies on scouting and different info, because in the end its his decision and this was one of the worst draft picks in the history of the Buffalo Bills. 503419[/snapback] 1. It may still be a little too early to call MW a bust at RT, though I acknowledge that time is quickly running out on him. Maybe the move to LG was a temporary one made because of his gimpy ankle (or even the potential seen in The Jason Peters Project) more so than MW's inability to play RT. 2. It's ridiculously early to call MW a bust at LG. 1 bad game after an entire college/pro career at tackle and on the right side of the line doesn't make him a bust. 3. If you think Mike Williams is the biggest bust in Buffalo Bills history, you need to learn more about Buffalo Bills history. It goes back way before the Flowers drafting in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 It may still be a little too early to call MW a bust at RT503683[/snapback] Once a Free Agent TE replaces you, it's official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 1. It may still be a little too early to call MW a bust at RT, though I acknowledge that time is quickly running out on him. Maybe the move to LG was a temporary one made because of his gimpy ankle (or even the potential seen in The Jason Peters Project) more so than MW's inability to play RT. 2. It's ridiculously early to call MW a bust at LG. 1 bad game after an entire college/pro career at tackle and on the right side of the line doesn't make him a bust. 3. If you think Mike Williams is the biggest bust in Buffalo Bills history, you need to learn more about Buffalo Bills history. It goes back way before the Flowers drafting in 2000. 503683[/snapback] I'm glad some perspective is coming into this discussion.... MW has been a disappointment in that he is no Pro Bowler, but it is flat out wrong to say that this means that the choice was obviously wrong from the start. I also had to laugh at the requisite "TD was defending his ego" BS earlier on. Come on, people; it makes sense to make sure that the kid can play the position you drafted him to play. I would say that it shows how flexible and realistic TD and MM are that they are able to see that Jason Peters has skills and deserves to play over the higher-drafted MW. Does it make MW any less disappointing? No, but one has to try to see the whole picture.... Speaking of which, anyone who says Mike Williams is the biggest bust ever in the first round should have to sit down and write, in addition to Erik Flowers the following names 500 times each: Al Cowlings Walt Patulski Phil Doakes Booker Moore Perry Tuttle Not to mention: Stew Barber, which should be an additional 1000 times for all those people who think that TD is such a horrible GM. I could go on, but I think I am starting to depress myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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