How Can This Be?

[AKC]

Try this one too from Allen Wilson of the News. 

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Typically fans rely on reporters to make their arguments when they wouldn't themsleves understand the first thing to look for on film regarding things like line play.

 

For instance, the ability for a DT to hold his ground and keep his balance. Anyone who does understand the primary skills you desire in an interior dlineman will immediately see the imperfections of Mr. Edwards without digging too deeply into the tape vault. Edwards is handicapped by a high center of gravity. His better skills with his feet are limited to north-north movement and he simply doesn't have good natural or learned lateral movement. All of this that film shows suggests he's more effective as a pass rusher than a run stopper, and viola! that's been proven true over his career.

 

If you hit the newstands enough to "buff up" on your football, sometime around the second week of November, when we've dropped further down the board of rushing defenses league-wide, some writer will discover what's obvious already to those who study line play as their gauge of a team's potential. And then you'll finally have a security blanket that will allow you to acknowledge what is clearly happening to our run defense. Until then, keep reading- there's so much text and for some that's much easier to quote than actually forming your own opinion based upon play on the field.

 

And by there way, where were you over the pre-season when I predicted that starting Ron Edwards in our first down offense would cost us 10 spots in team defense and end up getting our linebackers killed? I like that you appear unable to form your own arguments so you instead use media hacks; go ahead and name ONE of them who predicted the demise of our defense as I did?

[Guest BackInDaDay]

With all this gap talk, how/what are the safeties doing regarding covering the run?

 

I don't see any games, but considering that in the 3 contests this season the opponents weren't generally thought of as passing powerhouses...

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I've only seen a tape of the TB game where they had to come up to make tackles after Cadillac had already found his way through the line four 3-6 yards. Many of Vincents tackles weren't anything you'ld want a kid to do in Pop Warner. High arm tackles, but I don't expect much more from a converted CB.

 

As far as how Coach Gray is using them in blitz packages, to supplement the DL, I admit to not watching that closely. It was, as advertised, a tough watch.

[AKC]

he has at least held his ground and fulfilled his gap responsibility on a number of occasions.

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And yet the threshold for being a superior run stopper (like Pat Williams) is the ability to consistently hold your postition. From pre-season to the regular season Edwards is being knocked off balance, in most cases by one blocker, on more plays than he is holding it. Holding your ground on less than half of the running plays coming at you as a DT is simply a disaster in terms of a contemporary DT in this league. Williams drew 2 blockers on almost every rushing down and yet still effectively held his ground on most plays- Edwards is the virtual antithesis. His presence grants the offense one additonal blocker to send to the second line and kill our LBs while providing a failry reliable gap for opponents to run through.

[34-78-83]

Typically fans rely on reporters to make their arguments when they wouldn't themsleves understand the first thing to look for on film regarding things like line play.

 

For instance, the ability for a DT to hold his ground and keep his balance. Anyone who does understand the primary skills you desire in an interior dlineman will immediately see the imperfections of Mr. Edwards without digging too deeply into the tape vault. Edwards is handicapped by a high center of gravity. His better skills with his feet are limited to north-north movement and he simply doesn't have good natural or learned lateral movement. All of this that film shows suggests he's more effective as a pass rusher than a run stopper, and viola! that's been proven true over his career.

 

If you hit the newstands enough to "buff up" on your football, sometime around the second week of November, when we've dropped further down the board of rushing defenses league-wide, some writer will discover what's obvious already to those who study line play as their gauge of a team's potential. And then you'll finally have a security blanket that will allow you to acknowledge what is clearly happening to our run defense. Until then, keep reading- there's so much text and for some that's much easier to understand than actual play on the field.

 

And by there way, where were you over the pre-season when I predicted that starting Ron Edwards in our first down offense would cost us 10 spots in team defense and end up getting our linebackers killed? I like that you appear unable to form your own arguments so you instead use media hacks; go ahead and  name ONE of them who predicted the demise of our defense as I did?

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Let it be known then (FWIW) that I do not use news publications to obtain my Bills football x's and o's information. The gap control issues in the ATL game (yes , even on the TV broadcast which is not game film) were plainly evident for anyone to see. Just look at a couple of the big gainers going past Big Sam's gap where either he, or a LB (Fletcher or Posey) would have had responsibility.

[AKC]

Let it be known then (FWIW) that I do not use news publications to obtain my Bills football x's and o's information.  The gap control issues in the ATL game (yes , even on the TV broadcast which is not game film) were plainly evident for anyone to see. Just look at a couple of the big gainers going past Big Sam's gap where either he, or a LB (Fletcher or Posey) would have had responsibility.

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When the foundation is suspect the whole thing will eventually fail. One conclusion you might consider from the Atlanta game is that Sam Adams needed PWilliams a lot more than most assumed.

 

BTW- You do yourself no justice suggesting you are anywhere but among the most thoughtful and accurate posters on the board. On this one, IMO, it's inevitable that you'll come around at some point since it doesn't appear the team has given themselves any other way to correct their mistake. Anderson may be a year out of being any more effective then Ron Weebles.

[34-78-83]

When the foundation is suspect the whole thing will eventually fail. One conclusion you might consider from the Atlanta game is that Sam Adams needed PWilliams a lot more than most assumed.

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It is certainly a fact that Edwards is no Pat Williams. I don't think that is what's being debated here though your point hits home. The team simply lacked the discipline that day in the scheme they were being asked to implement. It wasn't a matter of Big Sam just overcompensating for Edwards. It wasn't just the tackles either. Maybe it was wrong for Gray to expect them to implement that particular scheme. Maybe the players are at fault. But on that day it certainly was not just one player.

[AKC]

It is certainly a fact that Edwards is no Pat Williams. I don't think that is what's being debated here though your point hits home. The team simply lacked the discipline that day in the scheme they were being asked to implement. It wasn't a matter of Big Sam just overcompensating for Edwards. It wasn't just the tackles either. Maybe it was wrong for Gray to expect them to implement that particular scheme. Maybe the players are at fault. But on that day it certainly was not just one player.

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We've played two other games, the first one is hard to use since Edwards never played a down in the second half.

 

Using the second game, do you ascribe gap control failures to the yardage CWilliams ran predominantly in Edwards gap?

[dave mcbride]

And yet the threshold for being a superior run stopper (like Pat Williams) is the ability to consistently hold your postition. From pre-season to the regular season Edwards is being knocked off balance, in most cases by one blocker, on more plays than he is holding it. Holding your ground on less than half of the running plays coming at you as a DT is simply a disaster in terms of a contemporary DT in this league. Williams drew 2 blockers on almost every rushing down and yet still effectively held his ground on most plays- Edwards is the virtual antithesis. His presence grants the offense one additonal blocker to send to the second line and kill our LBs while providing a failry reliable gap for opponents to run through.

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i don't disagree with you. i was just offering my own reading of what i thought the wilson column was really saying. unlike columnists like sullivan/roth who can pretty much say whatever the hell they want with no real repercussions, beat guys like wilson and maiorana cannot alienate their sources. the players and the coaches are their meal ticket, so they have to couch everything they say. i do actually think wilson knows a lot, but because of the requirements of his job, he can't say everything. you wouldn't either if you were in his shoes.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

And yet the threshold for being a superior run stopper (like Pat Williams) is the ability to consistently hold your postition. From pre-season to the regular season Edwards is being knocked off balance, in most cases by one blocker, on more plays than he is holding it. Holding your ground on less than half of the running plays coming at you as a DT is simply a disaster in terms of a contemporary DT in this league. Williams drew 2 blockers on almost every rushing down and yet still effectively held his ground on most plays- Edwards is the virtual antithesis. His presence grants the offense one additonal blocker to send to the second line and kill our LBs while providing a failry reliable gap for opponents to run through.

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Some good stuff there, AKC.

From what you've seen of Mr. Edwards, do you think Coach Kumrie can get him to drop his hips and take the skates off, or should we find another starter?

[AKC]

i don't disagree with you. i was just offering my own reading of what i thought the wilson column was really saying. unlike columnists like sullivan/roth who can pretty much say whatever the hell they want with no real repercussions, beat guys like wilson and maiorana cannot alienate their sources. the players and the coaches are their meal ticket, so they have to couch everything they say. i do actually think wilson knows a lot, but because of the requirements of his job, he can't say everything. you wouldn't either if you were in his shoes.

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Somebody shoved a copy of Bill's Digest in front of me during the game last week as if it were some grail, all I could do was cringe- recalling the days when guys like Smerlas wrote for Shout! and gave fairly unadulterated commentary. It's too bad the naitonal market for a Bill's weekly isn't big enough to support some less encumbered analysis and opinion.

[AKC]

Some good stuff there, AKC.

From what you've seen of Mr. Edwards, do you think Coach Kumrie can get him to drop his hips and take the skates off, or should we find another starter?

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Playing on skates is a good portrayal- I've been breaking down his play a lot for the past two years and it's my opinion that he simply has a physical liability he can't overcome in his high center of gravity. Could he play lower if he put an additonal 40 pounds on his legs? Yeah, a little, but now you'd likely detract from the one thing he is superior at in his straight-ahead speed. Krumrie might be good, but I believe he's been cursed with about half as much talent as the good NFL defenses have in the interior.

 

I'd rather see Edwards go back to his natural spot in our passing packages, something that would also get Sam Adams some plays off. Adams is going to become a risk to injury if we keep using him on 95% of our D downs. And I don't think you want to imagine this defense without Big Sam!

[Casey D]

Typically fans rely on reporters to make their arguments when they wouldn't themsleves understand the first thing to look for on film regarding things like line play.

 

For instance, the ability for a DT to hold his ground and keep his balance. Anyone who does understand the primary skills you desire in an interior dlineman will immediately see the imperfections of Mr. Edwards without digging too deeply into the tape vault. Edwards is handicapped by a high center of gravity. His better skills with his feet are limited to north-north movement and he simply doesn't have good natural or learned lateral movement. All of this that film shows suggests he's more effective as a pass rusher than a run stopper, and viola! that's been proven true over his career.

 

If you hit the newstands enough to "buff up" on your football, sometime around the second week of November, when we've dropped further down the board of rushing defenses league-wide, some writer will discover what's obvious already to those who study line play as their gauge of a team's potential. And then you'll finally have a security blanket that will allow you to acknowledge what is clearly happening to our run defense. Until then, keep reading- there's so much text and for some that's much easier to quote than actually forming your own opinion based upon play on the field.

 

And by there way, where were you over the pre-season when I predicted that starting Ron Edwards in our first down offense would cost us 10 spots in team defense and end up getting our linebackers killed? I like that you appear unable to form your own arguments so you instead use media hacks; go ahead and  name ONE of them who predicted the demise of our defense as I did?

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You really have an interesting way of thinking. And your use of hyperbole is just super.

 

Notwithstanding your once again condescending writing, the articles are not primarily opinion pieces, and they contain many quotes from players and the DC on what some of the problems are on defense. They are wholly consistent with what I have seen at the Houston game live, and as best I can tell from television in the other to games--although it is hard for me to tell too much from a network broadcast.

 

You don't have to get anything from the author to determine that my views are are consistent with just about all the statements made by the professionals in the articles. Yours are not. Does not make me right, or you wrong. It does suggest that your basic position that I have no idea what I am talking about, and that your views are indisputably correct, is wrong. But I should stop upsetting you by challenging your world view, so I will go now.

 

Take care.

[AKC]

But I should stop upsetting you by challenging your world view, so I will go now. 

 

Take care.

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Well don't go just yet! I asked you to name one single writer league-wide who predicted that our D would struggle, and specifically as I did- against the run?

[34-78-83]

We've played two other games, the first one is hard to use since Edwards never played a down in the second half.

 

Using the second game, do you ascribe gap control failures to the yardage CWilliams ran predominantly in Edwards gap?

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No, like I said earlier I saw Edwards as a bigger part of the problem in that game.

 

 

 

.... Along with fatigue due to an inept Buffalo offense.

[IDBillzFan]

Am I the only one who read the article and heard someone saying "We just need to execute better"?

[Mickey]

What they neglect to mention is how they got out of their gaps to begin with. My understanding is that it was due in large part to this new phenomenon that is sweeping the league right now, really, it's all the rage. They call it "blocking". What happens is that your big players knock the defensive players on their collective a$$e$ thereby taking them right out of their gaps. We should try it sometime.

[Mickey]

Am I the only one who read the article and heard someone saying "We just need to execute better"?

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We need to fix what's wrong.

 

We need to be more disciplined.

 

We need to turn it around.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

Could he play lower if he put an additonal 40 pounds on his legs? Yeah, a little, but now you'd likely detract  from the one thing he is superior at in his straight-ahead speed.

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Jeez, not for nothin' AKC, but the guy's listed as 6'3" 320. I had to check the roster cause I thought we were be talking about a 285lb DT. Adding another 40 to that frame could put him on God's squad! Another couple inches and we'd have another OT.

 

All due respect to your analysis, but if he's a heavy man playing like a light man, he's just playing too tall. This can be corrected. Couple that problem with a lack of discipline within the scheme, and yeah, the guys gonna be caught off balance moving the wrong way. Just what we need, another work in progress.

[AKC]

Am I the only one who read the article and heard someone saying "We just need to execute better"?

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I'm not sure about that, but I am CONVINCED that you ought to check your PMs every now and then ;-)

[AKC]

Jeez, not for nothin' AKC, but the guy's listed as 6'3" 320.  I had to check the roster cause I thought we were be talking about a 285lb DT.  Adding another 40 to that frame could put him on God's squad!    Another couple inches and we'd have another OT.   

 

All due respect to your analysis, but if he's a heavy man playing like a light man, he's just playing too tall.  This can be corrected. Couple that problem with a lack of discipline within the scheme, and yeah, the guys gonna be caught off balance moving the wrong way.  Just what we need, another work in progress. 

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I see players sometimes as physiological beneficiaries and others as victims- and Edwards definitely looks like victim to me. A big body like Ted Washington never had to work hard to play low- he had a natural center of gravity somewhere just above his hips. I'd say about the same place for PWilliams. Sam Adams is a little higher- maybe his stomach, but Edward's is nearly chest high- a killer against run blocking. Krumrie has no doubt worked for him to lower it, but there's a limit to how far you can drop a body's natural center and I don't ever see Edwards getting it low enough to be a run stuffer. He's just a big guy who used to be good in spot duty as a pass rusher, now playing out of position as a first down DT and being taken off the field on passing downs.