Girl expelled for having lesbian parents

[IBTG81]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/23/D8CPU38G8.html

 

 

 

Ya gotta love religion...

[Campy]

I guess the part where Jesus befriended lepers, beggars, thieves, and prostitutes is kinda' lost on them, eh?

[kegtapr]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/23/D8CPU38G8.html

Ya gotta love religion...

451574[/snapback]

 

Making a broad generalization about religion.....that's even more intelligent.

[IBTG81]

Making a broad generalization about religion.....that's even more intelligent. 

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Oh, I'm sorry. I just happen to see more that supports my opinion.

 

Tell me Keggy, name 5 branches of religion that OPENLY supports gay marriage/unions/lifestyle.

 

I thought so.

[Pete]

Making a broad generalization about religion.....that's even more intelligent. 

451585[/snapback]

agreed. Blanket statements are asinine.

[SDS]

So, the fact that the school had set up guidelines for admission - and that the fact that Shay's two mommies decided those guidlelines did not apply to them means that the Church is wrong? When they applied for admission - did they tell bold-faced lies? Did they sign papers knowingly that they were in violation of a simple set of rules?

 

Gotta love the Church for enforcing their admission policies. It's too bad that people think rules are for others...

[Campy]

Tell me Keggy, name 5 branches of religion that OPENLY supports gay marriage/unions/lifestyle.

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Support and tolerance are two different animals.

 

I don't support homosexuality, but do I tolerate it, much the same way as my church does. Perhaps you didn't hear about the gay Episcopal bishop?

 

I think most Christians believe it's a sin, but most Christians realize that they themselves aren't perfect either.

[VABills]

So, the fact that the school had set up guidelines for admission - and that the fact that Shay's two mommies decided those guidlelines did not apply to them means that the Church is wrong?  When they applied for admission - did they tell bold-faced lies?  Did they sign papers knowingly that they were in violation of a simple set of rules? 

 

Gotta love the Church for enforcing their admission policies.  It's too bad that people think rules are for others...

451595[/snapback]

Private institution can make their own decisions.

 

Ed, has a point, but at the same time, it is their school.

[IBTG81]

So, the fact that the school had set up guidelines for admission - and that the fact that Shay's two mommies decided those guidlelines did not apply to them means that the Church is wrong?  When they applied for admission - did they tell bold-faced lies?  Did they sign papers knowingly that they were in violation of a simple set of rules? 

 

Gotta love the Church for enforcing their admission policies.  It's too bad that people think rules are for others...

451595[/snapback]

 

 

Well, considering you have made anti-gay posts in the past, you get a big fat

[IBTG81]

Support and tolerance are two different animals. 

 

I don't support homosexuality, but do I tolerate it, much the same way as my church does.  Perhaps you didn't hear about the gay Episcopal bishop? 

 

I think most Christians believe it's a sin, but most Christians realize that they themselves aren't perfect either.

451597[/snapback]

 

OK, fine. Name 5 branches of relion that tolerate homosexuality.

[The Dean]

So, the fact that the school had set up guidelines for admission - and that the fact that Shay's two mommies decided those guidlelines did not apply to them means that the Church is wrong?  When they applied for admission - did they tell bold-faced lies?  Did they sign papers knowingly that they were in violation of a simple set of rules? 

 

Gotta love the Church for enforcing their admission policies.  It's too bad that people think rules are for others...

451595[/snapback]

 

So an openly discriminatory policy is OK, as long as it's a policy? Would it be OK if neither of the parents could be Black? Left-handed? Mac users?

 

While I agree it's a shame to make a sweeping statement about religion in general, I subscribe to the sentiment in my favorite bumper sticker:

 

God protect me from your followers!

 

Yes, i look to the bumber sticker for inspiration

[SDS]

Private institution can make their own decisions. 

 

Ed, has a point, but at the same time, it is their school.

451600[/snapback]

 

Ed has no point.

 

A group of people got together and formed a school where a certain set of values are to be taught along side their academic curriculum. In order to facilitate their moral teachings, and knowing that parental support is crucial in teaching their kids - they decided that at least one parent cannot be in direct conflict with their teaching.

 

They made a set of rules and despite having a partner for 22 years - these two women decided it didn't apply to them. I assume there were interviews and applications to be filled out. I would be shocked if they didn't know about this policy and it is probably a safe assumption that somewhere they just lied to get in to that school.

 

Yet Ed seeks to disparage the Church for sticking to their guidelines, instead of faulting the women for placing that child in that situation?

[IBTG81]

Yet Ed seeks to disparage the Church for sticking to their guidelines, instead of faulting the women for placing that child in that situation?

451613[/snapback]

 

That is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read on TBD.

 

[SDS]

So an openly discriminatory policy is OK, as long as it's a policy?  Would it be OK if neither of the parents could be Black?  Left-handed?  Mac users?

451612[/snapback]

 

As long as silly analogies like these are made, there really isn't any room for thoughful discussion.

[IBTG81]

So an openly discriminatory policy is OK, as long as it's a policy?  Would it be OK if neither of the parents could be Black?  Left-handed?  Mac users?

451612[/snapback]

 

Swish.

[Campy]

OK, fine. Name 5 branches of relion that tolerate homosexuality.

451609[/snapback]

I'm not too terribly concerned about Christian denominations' tolerance of homosexuality, but since you seem to be : Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterian, and Anglicans all tolerate homosexuality to one degree or another. It goes back to the "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" thingy...

 

Now name me 5 that don't tolerate homosexuality.

[IBTG81]

I'm not too terribly concerned about Christian denominations' tolerance of homosexuality, but since you seem to be : Lutherans, Episcopalians, Methodists, Presbyterian, and Anglicans all tolerate homosexuality to one degree or another.  It goes back to the "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" thingy...

 

Now name me 5 that don't tolerate homosexuality.

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Born-again, Islam, Jehova's, Catholicism, Prtoestantism.

 

Care to continue?

[SDS]

That is probably the most ignorant statement I have ever read on TBD.

 

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Your reaction to this is EXACTLY the reason why the guideline exists Ed. It is a school that teaches a particular set of moral values. If it is known beforehand that the parents do not subscribe to those teachings - then the parents will be directly undermining the lessons being taught. This pits the school against the parents, which they are taking steps to avoid.

[IBTG81]

Your reaction to this is EXACTLY the reason why the guideline exists Ed.  It is a school that teaches a particular set of moral values.  If it is known beforehand that the parents do not subscribe to those teachings - then the parents will be directly undermining the lessons being taught.  This pits the school against the parents, which they are taking steps to avoid.

451627[/snapback]

 

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they don't have "moral values."

 

So in essence you're saying that I could live a good Christian life, but if I were gay, I would be excluded?

[NorCal Aaron]

Thespians are cool.

[Campy]

Born-again, Islam, Jehova's, Catholicism, Prtoestantism.

 

Care to continue?

451623[/snapback]

Islam? You're the one who said "Gotta love those Christians."

 

And 3 of the denominations I listed above are Protestant, the other 2 consider themselves to be Catholic. Care to try again?

[The Dean]

As long as silly analogies like these are made, there really isn't any room for thoughful discussion.

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There analogies are not silly, but are smack-dab in the middle of the discussions. What is "silly" today was perfectly acceptable in another age until that particular bigotry was deemed unnaceptable by society. For years private schools and institutions excluded Blacks and women and many of the same arguments now used to descriminate against gays were used. My guess is left-handers had problems way back when (but, I'm too busy to do the research). As a new MAC user, well let's say how ashamed I am of the way I thought before I was enlightened. (Actually, I still prefer my Dell.)

 

Actually, if the school gets ABSOLUTELY NO public funding, I think they may have this right...and they may have the right to exclude Blacks and people of Italian descent.

 

What is a shame is people can't accept and tolerate beliefs which they do not hold. A LOT of things disgust and repulse me. I'm SERIUOSLY offended by many things, but it's neither very intelligent nor useful to ban that which offends us. So, while the beliefs of the people who run this school offend me deeply, I think it's OK for them to assemble and believe their incredible bull sh--.

 

THAT'S what makes me better than them!

[SDS]

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they don't have "moral values." 

 

So in essence you're saying that I could live a good Christian life, but if I were gay, I would be excluded?

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Unfortunately Ed, I do not think you are capable of rationale discussion on this topic. You pretty much read and twist words at your whim and the only thing it leads to is a pointless argument.

 

Like I said, and you ignored, I used the phrase "a certain set of teachings" on purpose. That school apparently has decided to take a particular stand on gay lifestyles. No one in this thread has said that gay people can't live moral lives, since clearly the term "moral" is ambiguous. But you chose to say that to be argumentative...

[IBTG81]

Islam?  You're the one who said "Gotta love those Christians."

 

And 3 of the denominations I listed above are Protestant, the other 2 consider themselves to be Catholic.  Care to try again?

451637[/snapback]

 

Then I said gotta love religion!

 

My ex was Protestant. We've had discussions about this, and she, and her parents both said homosexuality was a "sin."

 

But, for arguments sake, why don't why throw in Christian Science, Mormons, First Baptists, Southern Baptists...

[TheMadCap]

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they don't have "moral values." 

 

So in essence you're saying that I could live a good Christian life, but if I were gay, I would be excluded?

451631[/snapback]

 

 

It's not that homosexuals do not posess "moral values", it's just that thier set of values differs from that of the church. Whether this is wrong or not is irrelevant, it's thier school, so they get to make the rules.

 

You second statement has nothing to do with the issues. We are not talking about a "good Christian life" here, we are talking about having the qualifications to gain admission to a private school. Far be it that I actually defend a religious group, but they are right.

 

If we all have the right to free speech, then the church should have thiers as well...

[IBTG81]

It's not that homosexuals do not posess "moral values", it's just that thier set of values differs from that of the church. Whether this is wrong or not is irrelevant, it's thier school, so they get to make the rules.

 

You second statement has nothing to do with the issues. We are not talking about a "good Christian life" here, we are talking about having the qualifications to gain admission to a private school. Far be it that I actually defend a religious group, but they are right.

 

If we all have the right to free speech, then the church should have thiers as well...

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But they are not judging the girl. They are judging her parents.

 

That was my whole point TMC.

 

Religion, as a whole, is intolerant. It's all about fear, power, and control.

[VABills]

Islam?  You're the one who said "Gotta love those Christians."

 

And 3 of the denominations I listed above are Protestant, the other 2 consider themselves to be Catholic.  Care to try again?

451637[/snapback]

Two that are Catholic? Which two? There is only two Catholics, Roman and Greek Orthadox. That's it. There are orders under each.

 

BTW, the Catholic Church doesn't condemn homosexuality, just you are not permitted to receieve the sacraments if you are stained my mortal sin. Homosexuality is one, hence the reason a practicing homosexual can not receive the sacraments. If you live in abstinence and go to reconciliation, you can be "gay" but abstinent and receive the sacraments. Just the facts.

[The Dean]

Unfortunately Ed, I do not think you are capable of rationale discussion on this topic.  You pretty much read and twist words at your whim and the only thing it leads to is a pointless argument.

 

Like I said, and you ignored, I used the phrase "a certain set of teachings" on purpose.  That school apparently has decided to take a particular stand on gay lifestyles.  No one in this thread has said that gay people can't live moral lives, since clearly the term "moral" is ambiguous.  But you chose to say that to be argumentative...

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That still doesn't justify their discrimination toward the girl. It's her parent's lifestyle they are against...but they hold it against her. There are many Catholic schools who accept Jewish students. Clearly Catholisism doesn't accept many of the Jewish teachings.

 

To think there's not more here than what you suggest is very naive.

[stuckincincy]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/09/23/D8CPU38G8.html

Ya gotta love religion...

451574[/snapback]

 

I guess, forget all those universities for the past hundreds of years, keeping the spark of civilization and education alive, world-wide missions, research accomplishments, the US Constitution, untold billions in money and millions of folks that that traveled all over the globe to help others was just a big waste of time.

 

They need to leave the hurricane areas now, lest they infect someone. Right?

 

Especially that rotten Salvation Army...right?

 

Wise up - your life, if it would actually exist free of chains, is directly connected to the fact that religion - in most cases - with all it's warts - has set the stage for your ability to blithly impugn and ridicule.

 

Thiis Nation sans it's belief in God would have enslaved the globe...

[IBTG81]

That still doesn't justify their discrimination toward the girl.  It's her parent's lifestyle they are against...but they hold it against her.  There are many Catholic schools who accept Jewish students.  Clearly Catholisism doesn't accept many of the Jewish teachings.

 

To think there's not more here than what you suggest is very naive.

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Exactly.

[IBTG81]

I guess, forget all those universities for the past hundreds of years, keeping the spark of civilization and education alive, world-wide missions, research accomplishments, the US Constitution, untold billions in money and millions of folks that that traveled all over the globe to help others was just a big waste of time.

 

They need to leave the hurricane areas now, lest they infect someone. Right?

 

Especially that rotten Salvation Army...right?

 

Wise up - your life, if it would actually exist free of chains, is directly connected to the fact that religion - in most cases - with all it's warts -  has set the stage for your ability to blithly impugn and ridicule.

 

Thiis Nation sans it's belief in God would have enslaved the globe...

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[VABills]

   

451669[/snapback]

He is correct Ed.

[TheMadCap]

But they are not judging the girl. They are judging her parents. 

 

That was my whole point TMC.

 

Religion, as a whole, is intolerant. It's all about fear, power, and control.

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I agree 100% with your final statement Ed.

 

However, as much as I hate to say it, it is a private school and they have the right to do what they want. I personally think it is wrong, but I am also not trying to get into that school...

[IBTG81]

He is correct Ed.

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How so?

 

Certain aspects are good.

 

However, look at the world today. You're telling me religion doesn't play a huge part in what's gone wrong?

[KD in CA]

Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they don't have "moral values." 

 

Says who? Since when are you the universal judge of what is and isn't moral?

 

I happen to agree with you, but apparently the people who run this school don't, which is exactly why they created (and enforced) the policy in question.

[VABills]

How so?

451674[/snapback]

You think without the moral bearing that religion brings that a country like ours would not have been more aggressive in controlling more of the world.

[IBTG81]

Says who?  Since when are you the universal judge of what is and isn't moral?

 

I happen to agree with you, but apparently the people who run this school don't, which is exactly why they created (and enforced) the policy in question.

451675[/snapback]

 

I say I'm the universal judge!

 

Seriously though, how about this scenario:

 

A white girl is accpeted into a private school. They find out she is adopted by two black parents. They kick her out, because that to them is immoral. Is that OK?

[IBTG81]

You think without the moral bearing that religion brings that a country like ours would not have been more aggressive in controlling more of the world.

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I happen to believe we should control more of the world...

[SDS]

That still doesn't justify their discrimination toward the girl.  It's her parent's lifestyle they are against...but they hold it against her.  There are many Catholic schools who accept Jewish students.  Clearly Catholisism doesn't accept many of the Jewish teachings.

 

To think there's not more here than what you suggest is very naive.

451662[/snapback]

 

I am defending this school's right to set forth its own curriculum and admission policy based upon its interpretation of religious texts. They put forth a set of reasonable guidelines and they were violated. I suggested a possible rationale for their decisions. I'm sure there are many other reasons behind their admission policy that I haven't thought about.

 

Those women chose to ignore those policies plain and simple.

 

I have always found it quite amusing how people who obviously don't subscribe to Christian teachings are hell bent on telling them how to conduct their business.

[The Dean]

Now THIS is weird.

 

In a post on this thread Ed said someting like:

 

"The Dean is right"

 

I was in the process of replying to Ed...to warn him of the dangers of making a statement like that and lo and behold...that post is gone!

 

Either Ed, or SDS or an intelligent Mod decided to eliminate the post and save Ed the embarrassment of haveing to live with that statement. To whoever deleted Ed's post:

 

Good Work!

 

(intelligent Mod?????)