Another Reason even some NFL coaches are morons...

[CentralVaBills]

last night?

 

How dumb is Norv Turner and crew? The Patriots were playing their safeties, sometimes as much as 20 yards off the ball, and the Raiders continually tried to throw deep. This astonished me. Forcing the ball on long flag routes, or posts right into double and sometimes triple coverages.

 

And they kept trying, and trying, and trying. I mean seriously, anyone who doesn't think good coaching can effect the outcome of a game is a moron. But last night, was one of the WORST offensive play calling displays I've ever seen.

 

I've seen better in-game adjustments while coaching in high school. There is a reason that Norv Turner sucks, and last night was a prime example of a coaching staff not putting their players in the best position to succeed.

[Beerball]

last night?

 

How dumb is Norv Turner and crew?  The Patriots were playing their safeties, sometimes as much as 20 yards off the ball, and the Raiders continually tried to throw deep.  This astonished me.  Forcing the ball on long flag routes, or posts right into double and sometimes triple coverages.

 

And they kept trying, and trying, and trying.  I mean seriously, anyone who doesn't think good coaching can effect the outcome of a game is a moron.  But last night, was one of the WORST offensive play calling displays I've ever seen.

 

I've seen better in-game adjustments while coaching in high school.  There is a reason that Norv Turner sucks, and last night was a prime example of a coaching staff not putting their players in the best position to succeed.

434646[/snapback]

The one time I did see them throw short Madden was gushing about the Moss effect. Moss ran a short crossing route and the other WR caught the ball in the intermediate area. Madden says it's because everyone short was concentrating on Moss. Then the replay...Moss is followed short by the CB, meanwhile the LBs take a deep drop leaving the middle open for a completion. Nobody followed Moss except the CB. Did Madden correct himself on the replay? Nope, just bumbled and stumbled.

 

Back to your topic...Norv sucks almost as badly as Martz.

[CentralVaBills]

The one time I did see them throw short Madden was gushing about the Moss effect.  Moss ran a short crossing route and the other WR caught the ball in the intermediate area.  Madden says it's because everyone short was concentrating on Moss.  Then the replay...Moss is followed short by the CB, meanwhile the LBs take a deep drop leaving the middle open for a completion.  Nobody followed Moss except the CB.  Did Madden correct himself on the replay?  Nope, just bumbled and stumbled.

 

Back to your topic...Norv sucks almost as badly as Martz.

434656[/snapback]

It simply came down to the Raiders not being patient enough to stick with, or make up a gameplan that took advantage of short passing routes that were being given to them.

 

A few routes (slants) that they did run........he had guys open, and even completed some of them. Then, with the Patriots not budging, the Raiders would then start forcing balls deep again. It astonished me. I was sitting here thinking....WTF are they doing. And then you see Norv standing there with no emotion on his face whatsoever.

 

This is why football shouldn't be considered brain surgery like some people make it out to be. My question is....how could you have a coordinator so inept, that he couldn't see this? Also, how could guys upstairs not see this? How can you have coaches that can't adjust? Makes no sense. The Raiders staff didn't challenge the New England defensive coaching staff all night after the first TD drive.

 

Oakland's coaches got SCHOOLED, and that's amazing considering NE had two first time coordinators whipping their ass.

[BuffaloDynamite]

That is why the Patriots are the champs they are smarter and luckier than everyone else.

[CentralVaBills]

That is why the Patriots are the champs they are smarter and luckier than everyone else.

434673[/snapback]

I agree somewhat. However, I REALLY think that's why the Raiders are horrible even though they have some talented players.

 

SCHOOLED last night. Not even close. And to boot, the Pats didn't look dominant, but they did look dominant to the Raiders in terms of coaching.

[Guest BackInDaDay]

The one time I did see them throw short Madden was gushing about the Moss effect.  Moss ran a short crossing route and the other WR caught the ball in the intermediate area.  Madden says it's because everyone short was concentrating on Moss.  Then the replay...Moss is followed short by the CB, meanwhile the LBs take a deep drop leaving the middle open for a completion.  Nobody followed Moss except the CB.  Did Madden correct himself on the replay?  Nope, just bumbled and stumbled.

 

Back to your topic...Norv sucks almost as badly as Martz.

434656[/snapback]

 

Good catch! Watching that play on TV, I thought Moss crossing the middle drew the coverage in (whoops, I said 'drew' ), but the replay clearly showed that was not the case. The camera angle the replay was shot from appeared to be that of one located at pressbox level.

 

Does Madden watch these games on a monitor, rather than looking out at the field? That might account for his blunder.

[boomerjamhead]

last night?

 

How dumb is Norv Turner and crew?  The Patriots were playing their safeties, sometimes as much as 20 yards off the ball, and the Raiders continually tried to throw deep.  This astonished me.  Forcing the ball on long flag routes, or posts right into double and sometimes triple coverages.

 

And they kept trying, and trying, and trying.  I mean seriously, anyone who doesn't think good coaching can effect the outcome of a game is a moron.  But last night, was one of the WORST offensive play calling displays I've ever seen.

 

I've seen better in-game adjustments while coaching in high school.  There is a reason that Norv Turner sucks, and last night was a prime example of a coaching staff not putting their players in the best position to succeed.

434646[/snapback]

 

Norv Turner just needs a touch more of that lame ass cowbell.

[nonprophet]

How dumb is Norv Turner and crew?

 

I mean seriously, anyone who doesn't think good coaching can effect the outcome of a game is a moron.

 

I've seen better in-game adjustments while coaching in high school.

434646[/snapback]

 

NFL coaching staffs are a lot like political office staffs; just a bunch of cronies that the top dog has known for years. They may be qualified for their positions but more than likely they're not.

[boomerjamhead]

NFL coaching staffs are a lot like political office staffs; just a bunch of cronies that the top dog has known for years. They may be qualified for their positions but more than likely they're not.

435048[/snapback]

 

Norv Turner fits the Al Davis lap dog mold, and that is why he's thier head coach.

[Mark Long Beach]

It was really funny error that Madden made there. But my memory tells me that a couple of other completions just before that one really did use moss as a decoy and moss gathered a lot of attention.

[jarthur31]

last night?

 

How dumb is Norv Turner and crew?  The Patriots were playing their safeties, sometimes as much as 20 yards off the ball, and the Raiders continually tried to throw deep.  This astonished me.  Forcing the ball on long flag routes, or posts right into double and sometimes triple coverages.

 

And they kept trying, and trying, and trying.  I mean seriously, anyone who doesn't think good coaching can effect the outcome of a game is a moron.  But last night, was one of the WORST offensive play calling displays I've ever seen.

 

I've seen better in-game adjustments while coaching in high school.  There is a reason that Norv Turner sucks, and last night was a prime example of a coaching staff not putting their players in the best position to succeed.

434646[/snapback]

 

I don't know where you've been the past 40 years but Al Davis calls the shots. Every pass play is going to be a bomb. They don't believe in the short, intermediate routes.

[IDBillzFan]

If only Norv Turner coached at the high school level. I'm sure he'd be a better NFL coach today.

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't know where you've been the past 40 years but Al Davis calls the shots.  Every pass play is going to be a bomb.  They don't believe in the short, intermediate routes.

435300[/snapback]

 

Well, THAT is wrong. All Rich Gannon threw were short slants for years, and it worked to perfection. Jon Gruden's offense was all about the short-to-mid-range slans, with only the occasional deep throw.

[MartyBall4Buffalo]

Outside of Randy Moss I don't see the raiders as being "loaded" with talent, and Norv Turner is one of the worst if not the worst head coach in the league. His play calling is pretty predictable. Run jordan run jordan throw deep. There's no mixing it up. No underneath routes. Te seems. No Hot reads. It's run and throw deep. Almost highschool level play calling. he even threw in a couple famous Norv Turner 3rd and long draw plays, that he ran all the time as miami's offensive coordinator. Lamont Jordan while a capable backup, I'm just not that enamored with. I like him to follow in the footsteps of kevin barlow, and be decent but by no means a world beater. Teams won't have to fear jordan, will simply deepen their safeties like the pats did and eliminate the threat of moss deep, while leaving it up to their front 7 to handle jordan. If the raiders win more than 6 games this year I'll be suprised.

[34-78-83]

Look a little closer and you'll see that the underneath routes were there, they just weren't being thrown to by Collins with much regularity. He is the one that should be questioned here IMO. While it might be true that the primary WR on some of those plays ran deep, there were other guys open such as Jordan in the flat on many of the plays.

[NotStuckonStupid]

lets not forget rushing 3 DE by oakland is not going to win many games either

[Mark VI]

If only Norv Turner coached at the high school level. I'm sure he'd be a better NFL coach today.

435304[/snapback]

 

[fairweather fan]

From Bill Simmons, ESPN Page 2, 9/9/05

 

 

Are the Pats a little worse than we thought, or are the Raiders a little better than we thought? It's one or the other. Any time you're the defending champs, you're playing at home, you throw for over 200 yards in the first half, get a turnover inside the other team's 20, go three quarters without turning the ball over or giving up a sack, and the other team commits a whopping 14 penalties (including three more that were declined) ... and you're still sweating out the game in the final four minutes, that's a little scary.

 

 

 

Three things worried me about the Patriots:

 

 

 

1. The linebackers. Even without the two Teds (Bruschi and Johnson), and even though the situation looked dire in the preseason, every Pats fan was leaning on the old "Belichick will figure something out" approach. But they were using too many gimmicks last night. For instance, Rodney Harrison is a safety. He's always been a safety. If he's cheating up into the linebacker spot and playing the run in lieu of an actual linebacker, that's not a good omen for the next four months. Also, the two Ted replacements (Chad Brown and Monty Beisel) looked a step slow and a second late for much of the game -- the right kind of power running team (like Atlanta or Denver, two road games in Weeks 5 and 6) would have eaten Thursday night's defense alive.

 

 

 

Fortunately for Pats fans, Belichick has four weeks to figure this out. But we all know that you can't win a Super Bowl unless you can stop the run. And while we're on the subject, the running game (both Corey Dillon and the blocking) looked terrible in the first half, at least until the dinosaurs on Oakland's D-line started sucking wind in the second half. Then things opened up. But what will happen next week against a younger, tougher Carolina defense that won't be fading down the stretch? I'm worried. Just like you can't win the Super Bowl without stopping the run, you can't win without running for four yards a pop, either. And yes, I know it's early. Just pointing out some red flags.

 

 

 

2. The play-calling ... yikes. I don't mind that Charlie Weis is gone. If anything, I thought he suffered from a healthy dose of Martzitis -- he wanted to win, but only on his terms, and with as many gimmicks and splashy plays as possible. He overcomplicated things at times. And yes, I realize that I'm complaining about a guy who called plays for a team that finished 34-4 over the past two seasons. At the same time, the new offensive coordinator ... oh, wait, we never hired one. Last night, the QB coach was calling in plays with a "holy crap, Brady actually ran the play I just called in, maybe he really is listening to me!" look on his face. And there were some doozies in the second half -- like the near-catastrophic series before the blocked punt, when the Pats gave Oakland an extra 90 seconds of time when the Raiders didn't have any timeouts left. And yes, I know it's early. Just pointing out some red flags.