Benjamin Franklin Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Russia is still a major world power, and let's review what he's done/wants to do: 1) He's re-taken over the TV media oultets in Russia and turned them into pro-government propaganda machines. (His admin has also arrested reporters critical of his gov't- others have diappeared.) -- His response to outside criticsms: "There are grounds to their concerns," he said. "And we will do our best to settle the matter. This is not an attempt to stifle democracy. If there are legal problems, we will look for a way to solve this." 2) Major political rivals have all been withdrawing from offices, and the big money behind his rivals is under a wide-sweeping investigation that has frozen his assets. 3) He wants to abolish NATO because it is no longer needed. (I have my own criticsms of NATO, but just putting this into context). 4) In the wake of the recent terror attacks, he wants to remove the regional governors and make them non-elected officials appointed by the Kremlin. I know he is/was an outspoken reformer. He does, however, have a great distrust of democracy (he's said the Democracy that is chaotic is to no one's benefit, and that the gov't must intervene to make sure things stay stable). Further, even if HIS motives are good, and they might be, centrtalizing all that power makes it a lot easier for a successor to use the centralized government for ill. Any international observers, and there are a few on the board certainly more qualified than me, have anything to say/add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich in Ohio Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Russia is still a major world power, and let's review what he's done/wants to do: 1) He's re-taken over the TV media oultets in Russia and turned them into pro-government propaganda machines. (His admin has also arrested reporters critical of his gov't- others have diappeared.) -- His response to outside criticsms: "There are grounds to their concerns," he said. "And we will do our best to settle the matter. This is not an attempt to stifle democracy. If there are legal problems, we will look for a way to solve this." 2) Major political rivals have all been withdrawing from offices, and the big money behind his rivals is under a wide-sweeping investigation that has frozen his assets. 3) He wants to abolish NATO because it is no longer needed. (I have my own criticsms of NATO, but just putting this into context). 4) In the wake of the recent terror attacks, he wants to remove the regional governors and make them non-elected officials appointed by the Kremlin. I know he is/was an outspoken reformer. He does, however, have a great distrust of democracy (he's said the Democracy that is chaotic is to no one's benefit, and that the gov't must intervene to make sure things stay stable). Further, even if HIS motives are good, and they might be, centrtalizing all that power makes it a lot easier for a successor to use the centralized government for ill. Any international observers, and there are a few on the board certainly more qualified than me, have anything to say/add? 29335[/snapback] Yea it scares me...kinda sounds like what algore wanted to do and kerry wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yea it scares me...kinda sounds like what algore wanted to do and kerry wants to do. 29359[/snapback] This reply might get wiped by the admins, but I hope that their general level of disdain for your posts, which probably exceeds mine, overcomes their urge to delete. Do you ever have anything insightful to say? Are you sticking to "Dean" as a "lock" to win the nomination? Still ducking and running for cover when confronted with the facts? It's too bad we lost the archives of old posts, because my post pointing out at least 5 instances of your totally incorrect statements, and how you ran into a hole when confronted with the facts (a post you hid from of course), was a nice reminder of the tripe you post on here. Now- I know Rush doesn't have Russia talking points, because you know, it's not really that important what's going on in Russia, so I know you have nothing to add to this. But imagine you were an intelligent Conservative commentator like Buchanon, and address the issue, if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Old hat, Bengi...that Russia is a major power that bristles is nothing new. The only ones astounded are the "All we are saying, is give peace a chance crowd", and their acolytes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Russia is still a major world power, and let's review what he's done/wants to do: Any international observers, and there are a few on the board certainly more qualified than me, have anything to say/add? 29335[/snapback] I'm not sure I'd call them a "major world power" in that it gives the illusion that they are somewhere near what they used to be. Russia is in a very interesting place in their history. Unlike their Eastern Block counterparts, the East Germans, they don't have a sugar daddy to help them on the road to westernization. I think the last 3 U.S. Administrations have done a pretty poor job assisting them in their transition. It has to be hard for the average Russian to change the mindset that has plagued them for so long. Hence the reason the criminal element has been so successful right off the bat. They made the transition easily as their only enemy in the past was the government, which is now a shell of its former self on that front. I've always been of the opinion that Democracy will never take hold as long as blood wasn't shed to earn it. I don't envy the job that Putin has undertaken and I don't like his methods thus far. Admittedly, I'm not as up on what's going on there as I should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Old hat, Bengi...that Russia is a major power that bristles is nothing new. The only ones astoundedare the "All we are saying, is give peace a chance crowd", and their acolytes... 29404[/snapback] OK. What's Bush doing about Russia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yea it scares me...kinda sounds like what algore wanted to do and kerry wants to do. 29359[/snapback] Uh, no offense Rich, but this is maybe your most asinine post in recent memory. That is a bold statement I know. Just to play along with you, how does any of this sound like what "algore wanted to do and kerry wants to do"? If you respond, it should be highly entertaining... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 I don't know if I'd call Putin a reformer. He came to power under very strange circumstances, with Yeltsin basically abdicating his throne overnight to a virtual unknown (makes sense that the guy is KGB ) Yelstisn was the true reformer, but a very corrupt one at that, and he paved the way for oligarchs to rob at free will. While Putin has tried to bring law back in order, he's using old world tactics to do so. I hate to use the proverbial genie out of the bottle, but in this case, it applies. At some point, he needs to realize that it will be virtually impossible for him to militarily suppress the rebels. He cannot have the cake of westernizing his society, and at the same time dictatorially imposing his will. In that sense, the Chinese have done a "better" job of transitioning, while still keeping a firm grip. Russian economy still relies heavily on foreign investment to restructure its industry. As Putin continues to flail away, foreign investors will flee and a repeat of the panic of '98 will happen again. The outcome of the Yukos situation is very important to the future in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yeah, he is a jerk. Lest invade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Franklin Posted September 13, 2004 Author Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yeah, he is a jerk. Lest invade. 29649[/snapback] Don't you have work to do Rumsfeld? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Yea it scares me...kinda sounds like what algore wanted to do and kerry wants to do. 29359[/snapback] No. Lets look at what he is up against: 1) Their "mafia" is MUCH more powerful than our "Italian Mafia" ever was. 2) There are old-line communists. 3) They are getting hit by terrorists. 4) We are fighting Iraq in their "neck of the woods." This is surely seen as an embarrassment). 5) Please pay careful attention to this......Their most beautiful young women are on the internet, selling themselves as "Russian Brides." As much as I am for personal freedoms, this is something that I wish that our government would make illegal. These beautiful women are the wives and sisters of Russian men. I pose the question: How would YOU like it if the situation was reversed? My point is that I dont mind giving them aid. Truthfully, we could use their help in killing Islamic Fundamentalist scumbags. That said, how can we expect them to like us while we are plucking their young, beautiful women from websites and having our way with them? Certainly, this is something worthy of consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 No. Lets look at what he is up against: 1) Their "mafia" is MUCH more powerful than our "Italian Mafia" ever was. 2) There are old-line communists. 3) They are getting hit by terrorists. 4) We are fighting Iraq in their "neck of the woods." This is surely seen as an embarrassment). 5) Please pay careful attention to this......Their most beautiful young women are on the internet, selling themselves as "Russian Brides." As much as I am for personal freedoms, this is something that I wish that our government would make illegal. These beautiful women are the wives and sisters of Russian men. I pose the question: How would YOU like it if the situation was reversed? My point is that I dont mind giving them aid. Truthfully, we could use their help in killing Islamic Fundamentalist scumbags. That said, how can we expect them to like us while we are plucking their young, beautiful women from websites and having our way with them? Certainly, this is something worthy of consideration. 29714[/snapback] "Please pay careful attention to this......Their most beautiful young women are on the internet, selling themselves as "Russian Brides." As much as I am for personal freedoms, this is something that I wish that our government would make illegal." But then what would LABillzFan use for an avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted September 14, 2004 Share Posted September 14, 2004 OK. What's Bush doing about Russia? 29418[/snapback] What should he do? What would Kerry do? What did Clinton do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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