Bush tells why he won't meet Sheehan

[Mickey]

If I detested a war, I wouldn't re-enlist to go fight it.  But that's just me.

 

409512[/snapback]

Which proves that you don't recognize the importance of duty and comradeship but it doesn't shed any light on what Casey Sheehan's views on the subject were.

Look, if you want to claim that you know this now deceased stranger better than his won mother, fine, I think readers here are able to see that claim for what it is.

[Mickey]

i would say she is getting so much coverage because people like Chris Matthews and Joe Scarbourough and Keith Olberman and Sean Hannity, and Alan Colmes and and and....who else?  Good Morning America, the Today show crew....etc...etc...etc....know that this woman is a train wreck waiting to happen and they are going to ride this "one trick pony flavor of the week" until something else comes along.  i don't think it has one ounce to do with anything you mentioned.

 

Sort of like the Karl Rove story....it kind of died out when John Roberts was nominated....then that story took a step back for Raf. Palmiero...then he took a step back for Mrs. Sheehan.....and in about 24-48 hours she is going to be gone when 100's of Jews die while being forced out of Gaza.....oh wait...no...that won't make the news....

 

as mentioned either in this thread or the other one about the same topic, this lady knows she is the ring leader of a 3 Ring Circus and she is enjoying her 15 minutes.

is she sincerely devastated at the loss of her son?  i don't doubt it for one second, but i don't think this "circus" is about that anymore.

 

when the camera lights finally dim and reporters all finally go home....this lady will never be heard from again.

409502[/snapback]

A lot of polls came out this weekend that show a pretty strong downward shift in the public's attitude about the war and the way this administration is handling it. To my mind, that means there is a far more receptive audience for what she has to say than was previously the case.

 

The Rove story heated up because there was finally something to report what with Miller going to jail and Cooper disclosing his source and so on. It will kick right back up again when there is something new to report. Right now all that is happening is more testimony before the Grand Jury with tid bits of what the latest witness might have said.

 

I agree that Cindy Sheehan's moment in the spotlight will be shortlived, at some point all news eventually becomes old news. I do think though that she has come along at the right time in terms of the war and the public's attitude about it having reached a low point.

 

On the left there seems to be a stampede to embrace this woman and her story while on the right, the "Swift Boat" forces are in high gear denouncing her from every angle 24-7. I think the level of attention from all corners is an indication that she has become a focal point even if a short lived one.

 

That's just my sense of it OG, I am thinking out loud here, not staking out a position.

[RkFast]

There's the Neocon definition of compassion, which is a quality that you say you have while you're giving a speech. And then there's the actual definition of compassion, which is a quality that requires real action. If you remember Marv's quote in this vein....

409478[/snapback]

 

WHAT about Roosevelt and "compassion"?

 

Open mouth, insert foot.

 

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinio...one_050816a.htm

 

From Michael Barone:

 

Meeting with the families

 

Many Bush-haters have been attacking Bush for not attending servicemen's funerals and for refusing to meet with Cindy Sheehan, whose son died in Iraq and who is camping out outside Bush's ranch in Crawford, Texas. But Bush has already met with Sheehan once and has met with many family members, off camera and without publicity, as this week's Newsweek story makes clear.

 

Did Franklin Roosevelt attend the funerals of any of the more than 300,000 Americans who died on active duty in World War II? I doubt it. But Roosevelt, like Bush, did meet quietly with family members of those who died. And he met, as Bush has done, with wounded servicemen.

 

In Hawaii in 1944, writes Hugh Gregory Gallagher in FDR's Splendid Deception, Roosevelt took the opportunity to visit the many hospital wards filled with wounded American men, including Japanese-American casualties wounded in Europe. The Secret Service advised Roosevelt not to see these Nisei soldiers on the grounds that one of them might prove disloyal to the United States and threaten the life of the president. FDR's one-word response to this was, "Nonsense!"

 

In the past, at hospitals, as at other public gatherings, Roosevelt had allowed himself to be seen in but two ways: standing or seated in an open car. Now in the presence of wounded boys the age of his own sons, FDR did a remarkable thing. He had himself lifted from his car into his wheelchair. And he had himself, President and Commander-in-Chief, wheeled on his wheelchair through the wards of amputees. He rolled slowly so that they could see him. He was as crippled as they were, and he wanted them to see that.

 

Roosevelt understood what these men were undergoing. He had gone through it himself. He was, by all reports, deeply moved by what he saw, and so were the men. The President had heard specifically of one man who had amputated his own legs in order to save his life. As he rolled up to this man's bed, Roosevelt said, "I understand you are something of a surgeon." And then, after a pause, "I'm not a bad orthopedist myself."

 

George W. Bush seems to be doing his duty in the same spirit. Let John McCain, speaking on Fox News Sunday, be the witness. "Look, I've been with the president of the United States when he has met with the families of those brave young men and women who have sacrificed. I have seen his compassion, I have seen his love, I have seen his concern. So any charge of insensitivity or uncaring on the part of this president, is absolutely false. He cares and he grieves. . . . I have seen him, I have seen his care, and I have seen him grieve. And I'm sure he wouldn't like to hear me say this, but I saw him afterwards. He was very, very grieved. And that's the job of the president of the United States. He fully appreciates the tragedy of the loss of these brave young Americans."

 

Question: How much coverage would the press have given a World War II-era Cindy Sheehan who camped outside Hyde Park or Warm Springs demanding to meet with President Roosevelt?

[VABills]

So the fact that this women already talked with Bush last year and had several hours at that time means nothing. You guys honestly believe she isn't being pumped and pushed by the Dean machine to be the pathetic thing that she has become.

 

I know see and understand how Al Qeada is able to recruit and make terrorists. Seems the Democrats are learning some new techniques. Using and abusing those that feel anger and slighted after a loss. What a bunch of hypocritical polical bull sh--.

[Reuben Gant]

I know see and understand how Al Qeada is able to recruit and make terrorists.  Seems the Democrats are learning some new techniques.  Using and abusing those that feel anger and slighted after a loss.  What a bunch of hypocritical polical bull sh--.

409719[/snapback]

Wait a minute, did you just compare Democratic recruiting techniques to those of AQ?

[VABills]

Wait a minute, did you just compare Democratic recruiting techniques to those of AQ? 

409732[/snapback]

Yes, I was actually thinking about this last night. I believe they are using those tactics. I believe if pushed they could probably turn this Sheehan women into their own little bomber if they wanted. Especially since her own loved ones, children and husband are all telling her to STFU and drop it and that she is wrong. Someone has obviously brainwashed and convinced her of a lot of things, and she is following the script to the tee.

[Reuben Gant]

Yes, I was actually thinking about this last night.  I believe they are using those tactics.  I believe if pushed they could probably turn this Sheehan women into their own little bomber if they wanted.  Especially since her own loved ones, children and husband are all telling her to STFU and drop it and that she is wrong.  Someone has obviously brainwashed and convinced her of a lot of things, and she is following the script to the tee.

409739[/snapback]

This is an observation, but you do realize this is a pacifist movement?

[VABills]

This is an observation, but you do realize this is a pacifist movement?

409746[/snapback]

Same tactics. And I don't think its a pacifist movement. I believe it a liberal ploy, and she is being exploited.

 

But way to ignore what I originally asked.

 

How is it that after she already had several hours with Bush last year 2 months after her sons death that she now feels she can pretty much demand an audience whenever she wants. Sorry she had her time and her 15 minutes.

[Reuben Gant]

Same tactics.  And I don't think its a pacifist movement.  I believe it a liberal ploy, and she is being exploited. 

 

But way to ignore what I originally asked. 

 

How is it that after she already had several hours with Bush last year 2 months after her sons death that she now feels she can pretty much demand an audience whenever she wants.  Sorry she had her time and her 15 minutes.

409758[/snapback]

I am not defending her. I don't think Bush should meet with her. But I also doubt that that she is either brainwashed or being manipulated. I don't think she is very coherent about what she wants. But I do think if she stopped tomorrow, their will be somebody to replace her. This war has not been popular from the beginning.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

The policy on negotiating with terrorists should apply with the Nutjob Mom here. You don't negotiate (meet with) this particular Nutjob Mom because then you'd have to negotiate (meet with) ALL the Nutjob Moms. Ergo you don't meet with ANY.

 

The news value of this annoying loon disappeared days ago, yet the media keep pimping her as a way to stick it to Bush. I'd have a government shrink declare her officially 'over the rainbow' and have her committed.

[Mickey]

So the fact that this women already talked with Bush last year and had several hours at that time means nothing.  You guys honestly believe she isn't being pumped and pushed by the Dean machine to be the pathetic thing that she has become. 

 

I know see and understand how Al Qeada is able to recruit and make terrorists.  Seems the Democrats are learning some new techniques.  Using and abusing those that feel anger and slighted after a loss.  What a bunch of hypocritical polical bull sh--.

409719[/snapback]

Riiigght. Republicans would never, ever, ever exploit anger and grief. Never.

[Mickey]

I am not defending her. I don't think Bush should meet with her. But I also doubt that that she is either brainwashed or being manipulated. I don't think she is very coherent about what she wants. But I do think if she stopped tomorrow, their will be somebody to replace her. This war has not been popular from the beginning.

409761[/snapback]

Look, see if you can follow this reasoning: Everyone who disagrees with the right is a left wing whacko or someone brainwashed by left wing whackos because otherwise, the possibility woud exist that every so often, Republicans are wrong and that my friend is blasphemy, pure crazy talk. It can not be. The Republican agenda is a holy agenda inspired by the bible which is the inerrant word of God so no other reasonable conclusion can be drawn.

 

Simple, see?

[SilverNRed]

Look, if you want to claim that you know this now deceased stranger better than his won mother, fine, I think readers here are able to see that claim for what it is.

409683[/snapback]

If I want to, I will. But I don't and I haven't, so I'm not going to start now.

 

Casey Sheehan joined the military and then re-enlisted to return to combat. His mother doesn't even think we should have gone to Afghanistan following 9/11. You can't reconcile those facts and say they were of one mind politically. And, yes, it's clear to me just from that that had a different political worldview.

[Gavin in Va Beach]

Look, see if you can follow this reasoning:  Everyone who disagrees with the right is a left wing whacko or someone brainwashed by left wing whackos because otherwise, the possibility woud exist that every so often, Republicans are wrong and that my friend is blasphemy, pure crazy talk.  It can not be.  The Republican agenda is a holy agenda inspired by the bible which is the inerrant word of God so no other reasonable conclusion can be drawn.

 

Simple, see?

409797[/snapback]

 

Are you being serious, or does your zeal for party/philosophy really make you this stupid?

[Mickey]

Many Bush-haters have been attacking Bush for not attending servicemen's funerals ..."

409714[/snapback]

Do me a favor and talk to Richio about his countless posts during the election skewering Kerry for not attending funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq. Would you consider him a "Bush-hater"? Hmmm...I don't seem to recall your being critical of those posts.

[Mickey]

If I want to, I will.  But I don't and I haven't, so I'm not going to start now.

 

Casey Sheehan joined the military and then re-enlisted to return to combat.  His mother doesn't even think we should have gone to Afghanistan following 9/11.  You can't reconcile those facts and say they were of one mind politically.  And, yes, it's clear to me just from that that had a different political worldview.

409798[/snapback]

How do you manage this schizophrenia? You say you haven't claimed to know her son's views better than his own mother in one sentence and then say that you do the next because "it's clear" to you.

 

Okay, you win. You don't claim to know her son's position on the war better than she but you are sure that his views are not what she says they are because it is clear to you. Makes sense, no contradictions there.

[SilverNRed]

How do you manage this schizophrenia?  You say you haven't claimed to know her son's views better than his own mother in one sentence and then say that you do the next because "it's clear" to you. 

 

Okay, you win.  You don't claim to know her son's position on the war better than she but you are sure that his views are not what she says they are because it is clear to you.  Makes sense, no contradictions there.

409809[/snapback]

Because I don't know her son's views but it's clear they were different from his mother's.

 

I don't know how different, but different. Because people who are against war in all situations do not join the military in the first place.

 

If this is confusing to you, I can't help you.

[Reuben Gant]

Look, see if you can follow this reasoning:  Everyone who disagrees with the right is a left wing whacko or someone brainwashed by left wing whackos because otherwise, the possibility woud exist that every so often, Republicans are wrong and that my friend is blasphemy, pure crazy talk.  It can not be.  The Republican agenda is a holy agenda inspired by the bible which is the inerrant word of God so no other reasonable conclusion can be drawn.

 

Simple, see?

409797[/snapback]

Not the way I would have put it, but, it is interesting to watch the political right squirm when anyone withholds their consent. (are they really so insecure in their beliefs that this loony little lady is such a threat)

[Mickey]

Are you being serious, or does your zeal for party/philosophy really make you this stupid?

409801[/snapback]

C'mon Gavin, don't bother with the issues, just start an insult war.

 

My experience on this board is that virtually every position ever taken that disagrees with the Republican one is quickly denounced as left wing whackery. There are two main explanations. One is that democrats are never even accidentally right or that the righties here reflexively, in Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity like fashion, denounce every position of the "enemy" out of a conviction that they are always right. Take that along with the christian right's role in directing the Schiavo passion play, that creationism be taught in science classes and the public castration of Senator Arlen Specter and there is enough truth to the role religion plays in the ethos of the right to justify a little satire on my part.

 

As for my zeal for party, perhaps that explains why I supported the war, am against most gun control legislation, was against the addition of the prescription drug benefit, for drilling in ANWR and taken a number of other fairly conservative positons on a number of issues.

[Mickey]

Because I don't know her son's views but it's clear they were different from his mother's.

 

I don't know how different, but different.  Because people who are against war in all situations do not join the military in the first place.

 

If this is confusing to you, I can't help you.

409823[/snapback]

Right, mom says one thing about her son, you say another. Between you and her, I'm going with her on the off chance that she knows more about her son than you.

[VABills]

Right, mom says one thing about her son, you say another.  Between you and her, I'm going with her on the off chance that she knows more about her son than you.

409865[/snapback]

And yet his dad and sister disagree with the mom. So I will go with what they say, because there is two witnesses there and they are being fed a line of sh-- from the Dean camp.

[SilverNRed]

Right, mom says one thing about her son, you say another.  Between you and her, I'm going with her on the off chance that she knows more about her son than you.

409865[/snapback]

All I'm doing is remaining skeptical about a woman who is making crazy accusations on a daily basis and who claims to be speaking for her deceased son. The people on Casey Sheehan's father's side of the family feel the exact opposite way and Cindy Sheehan's husband just filed for divorce.

 

If you aren't skeptical about everything this woman is saying, it's only because you really really don't want to be.

[Reuben Gant]

And yet his dad and sister disagree with the mom. 

409869[/snapback]

 

Do you have a link for that?

In her own words she said she and her husband were always in political agreement, but he didn't agree with her devoting her life to activism.

[Mickey]

Not the way I would have put it, but, it is interesting to watch the political right squirm when anyone withholds their consent. (are they really so insecure in their beliefs that this loony little lady is such a threat)

409827[/snapback]

She must be destroyed. The very idea that a person could be a patriot and disagree with the right just doesn't compute. Look at the trouble Silver has even considering the notion that Casey Sheehan's service wasn't an endorsement of the war itself or the President. It can't be. It must be instead that the boy's mother is a brainwashed lunatic who doesn't know her own son as well right wing strangers knew him.

 

The reasonable view is that none of us know what the heck his views were on the war and that whatever they were, they are just one soldier's view of the situation. Judging by the reaction you would think the entire future of the global struggle against violent extremism hangs in the balance. I predict that both sides will engage in a battle of the widows and grieving moms. Just about everyother heartfelt human instinct we all share, base or otherwise, has been harnessed by one side or the other in this war. Fear, patriotism, suspicion, religion, grief, anger, etc. etc. etc. This is just more of the same.

[SilverNRed]

She must be destroyed.  The very idea that a person could be a patriot and disagree with the right just doesn't compute.  Look at the trouble Silver has even considering the notion that Casey Sheehan's service wasn't an endorsement of the war itself or the President.  It can't be.  It must be instead that the boy's mother is a brainwashed lunatic who doesn't know her own son as well right wing strangers knew him.

409880[/snapback]

So nice of you to respond not to me, but about me to someone else.

 

And it's great that you keep trying to assert that somehow I'm trying to say I knew this guy better than his own mom. It's not working, but it's great that you keep trying.

 

Let me guess: you'll say it again in your next response.....

[VABills]

Do you have a link for that?

In her own words she said she and her husband were always in political agreement, but he didn't agree with her devoting her life to activism.

409877[/snapback]

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?Stor...16-112405-7015r

 

From his side of the family

 

"We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She appears to be promoting her own personal agenda at the expense of her son's good name and reputation," the family members said. "The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our president, silently with prayer and respect."

[Mickey]

And yet his dad and sister disagree with the mom.  So I will go with what they say, because there is two witnesses there and they are being fed a line of sh-- from the Dean camp.

409869[/snapback]

link?

 

All I could find was the drudge story which is based on an e-mail purportedly from Casey Sheehan's aunt and godmother, whose name is supposedly "Cherie Quartarolo", which was "signed" by "...grandparents, aunts, uncles and numerous cousins."

 

First, it doesn't list the father or siblings and second, it actually contains no names of anyone besides this "cherie".

 

Casey Sheehan's aunt, Dede Miller, said, I think at his funeral if I read the story right, that the war was insanity that needs to stop, however you want to interpret that. Dede Miller

His sister Carley also has reportedly spoken out against the war. Carley Sheehan

Patrick Sheehan's divorce papers mention nothing that would indicate he disagrees with Cindy over the war and its conduct. She has said he doesn't agree with her protest but he does agree that the war is a lie.

 

My point is that none of us know what that young man thought. His family might, like his mother, siblings and father but we don't.

[Mickey]

So nice of you to respond not to me, but about me to someone else.

 

And it's great that you keep trying to assert that somehow I'm trying to say I knew this guy better than his own mom.  It's not working, but it's great that you keep trying.

 

Let me guess: you'll say it again in your next response.....

409890[/snapback]

Right, I haven't responded to you? Shall we count how many replies I have made to you in this and related threads?

 

I am allowed to respond to others and if I choose to reference your posts in those responses, tough.

 

We all know that you maintain you don't claim to know more than mom but at the same time you know she is wrong about her son, "it's clear" to you. You have made that inconsistent point over and over. Do we have to keep rehasing it?

[SilverNRed]

We all know that you maintain you don't claim to know more than mom but at the same time you know she is wrong about her son, "it's clear" to you.  You have made that inconsistent point over and over.  Do we have to keep rehasing it?

409941[/snapback]

Of course, it's "clear." First off, it's impossible to find two people with identical political views in general, which is why it's unwise to trust anyone speaking for the dead, especially grieving mothers.

 

So if I roll into this message board with "I support President Bush 100% and so did my recently deceased mother," I expect people to furrow their brow at that second part.

 

Second, he was a military man and his mother is apparently anti-war period (not just anti-Iraq War) so there's a conflict there as well.

[SilverNRed]

My point is that none of us know what that young man thought.  His family might, like his mother, siblings and father but we don't.

409930[/snapback]

Amazingly, my point is we should take everything his mother says with a grain of salt which is incredibly compatable with the above.

 

Unfortunately, you misinterpret this as me (and the rest of the sensitive right wingers) proclaiming we know CS more than his family.

[Wacka]

She's blamed the Jews ( Israel) for her son dying too. She's a total wackjob. She fits right in with Dean and the bunch.

[Mickey]

Amazingly, my point is we should take everything his mother says with a grain of salt which is incredibly compatable with the above. 

 

Unfortunately, you misinterpret this as me (and the rest of the sensitive right wingers) proclaiming we know CS more than his family.

409961[/snapback]

Well every time you would say that you didn't know his view on the war better than his mom, you would follow it up with a statement about how clear you were that his views were not what she says they are because yadda, yadda, yadda.

 

In any event, we seem to be pretty close on this as far as no one having any idea what Casey Sheehan would think of all this if he could tell us. With that ignorance in mind, I don't think that any conclusions on that score are warranted.

[Buckey]

Because the Bush PR people need to all be fired. They have the worst marketing skills of any administration since television.

409567[/snapback]

 

Look what they have to work with!

[Buckey]

Yes, I was actually thinking about this last night.  I believe they are using those tactics.  I believe if pushed they could probably turn this Sheehan women into their own little bomber if they wanted.  Especially since her own loved ones, children and husband are all telling her to STFU and drop it and that she is wrong.  Someone has obviously brainwashed and convinced her of a lot of things, and she is following the script to the tee.

409739[/snapback]

 

That sounds just like the GOP in action.

[Buckey]

How do you manage this schizophrenia?  You say you haven't claimed to know her son's views better than his own mother in one sentence and then say that you do the next because "it's clear" to you. 

 

Okay, you win.  You don't claim to know her son's position on the war better than she but you are sure that his views are not what she says they are because it is clear to you.  Makes sense, no contradictions there.

409809[/snapback]

 

[Buckey]

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?Stor...16-112405-7015r

 

From his side of the family

 

 

That was her aunt's statement. So what.

[Wacka]

Feeling lonely Buckey?

[SilverNRed]

That was her aunt's statement. So what.

410211[/snapback]

No, it wasn't her aunt, it was Casey Sheehan's aunt - presumably his father's sister and one of Cindy Sheehan's in-laws.

 

Reading comprehension is a B word.

[RkFast]

"Pax Americana Imperialism"?

 

Yeah...sounds like words of a Mom...just simply upset that her son died.

 

And a true "patriot", too.

 

Jeez....fuggin DEB doesnt use terms like that!

 

And hand to God honest...I gave this woman a chance....I really did. She came on TV the other night to make her statement, I stopped what I was doing and watched intently to hear what she had to say. I felt her pain and thought she had a legit beef. But about half-way through her spiel, all the crazy nonsense started, and it then took about an additional two seconds for me and everyone in the room, including my wife...not a Bush lover by any means....to realize she's nuts and to see the puppet strings and the empty packets of Kool-Aid on the floor.